relapse?

[JesusFan]

You must have a bible of your own making.

I do, its called the Bible written by Apostles peter/paul and John!

 

[freeatlast]

I do, its called the Bible written by Apostles peter/paul and John!

Then you should believe what they wrote instead of what you want to believe. John says no believer will or can practice sin.

 

[JesusFan]

Then you should believe what they wrote instead of what you want to believe. John says no believer will or can practice sin.

john also said that when the Christians sins, he has to confess that sin to God, who freely forgives him and restores him back due to the Cross of Christ!

 

[freeatlast]

john also said that when the Christians sins, he has to confess that sin to God, who freely forgives him and restores him back due to the Cross of Christ!

No John did not say that. Like I said you read the bible like you read what people post and because of it you are seriously deceived about the bible.

 

[Robert Snow]

Backsliding is indeed in the Bible, at least the concept, as that refers to what happens to a child of God that refuses to deal with their personal sins by confession/repentance of tjhem to the Lord!

failure to address their sin problem areas will cause them to breal their fellowship with the Heavenly Father!

See King david for how that time outside will of God and fellowship felt for him!

You are correct, but you are wasting your time.

Freeatlast is of the opinion that his, and only his interpretation is correct. It doesn't matter what any other verse in the bible says, or if everyone both on the Net and in every church shows him he is wrong.

I have sat under such people in the past. They look for any excuse to go against what the bible says on a particular subject by picking out one verse and using it as a battering ram against all on comers. I believe it makes them feel superior in their understanding of God and His will.

It sets them up as being super-spiritual. After all, if the rest of us were as spiritual as they are, God would show us the real truth.

 

[JesusFan]

You are correct, but you are wasting your time.

Freeatlast is of the opinion that his, and only his interpretation is correct. It doesn't matter what any other verse in the bible says, or if everyone both on the Net and in every church shows him he is wrong.

I have sat under such people in the past. They look for any excuse to go against what the bible says on a particular subject by picking out one verse and using it as a battering ram against all on comers. I believe it makes them feel superior in their understanding of God and His will.

It sets them up as being super-spiritual. After all, if the rest of us were as spiritual as they are, God would show us the real truth.

Guess shows where those who hold to "one pet verse" usually head up, on bad doctrine row!

 

[drfuss]

Freeatlast may be more comfortable in a Pentecostal Holiness Denomination church concerning Christians sinning. Here is a part of their statement of faith on sanctification:

"It is not absolute perfection, not angelic perfection; not “sinless perfection,” if the term is used to imply the impossibility of a sanctified person’s falling into sin. We do not believe it is impossible for the sanctified to commit sin; but we do believe it is possible for a sanctified person not to commit sin (Luke 1:73-75; Titus 2:11, 12; 1 John 1:7; 2:1, 6; 3:5-10; 5:18). We are aware of John’s statement in 1 John 1:8, but these words apply to those who deny the need for cleansing, not to those who have experienced it and are living the sanctified life."

They believe it is possible for a sanctified Christian to not commit Sin. However, they are the only Pentecostal denomination that believes in a form of sinless perfection. I know the other large Pentecostal denominations believe the same as most Baptist due concerning sactification.

 

[freeatlast]

Freeatlast may be more comfortable in a Pentecostal Holiness Denomination church concerning Christians sinning. Here is a part of their statement of faith on sanctification:

"It is not absolute perfection, not angelic perfection; not “sinless perfection,” if the term is used to imply the impossibility of a sanctified person’s falling into sin. We do not believe it is impossible for the sanctified to commit sin; but we do believe it is possible for a sanctified person not to commit sin (Luke 1:73-75; Titus 2:11, 12; 1 John 1:7; 2:1, 6; 3:5-10; 5:18). We are aware of John’s statement in 1 John 1:8, but these words apply to those who deny the need for cleansing, not to those who have experienced it and are living the sanctified life."

They believe it is possible for a sanctified Christian to not commit Sin. However, they are the only Pentecostal denomination that believes in a form of sinless perfection. I know the other large Pentecostal denominations believe the same as most Baptist due concerning sactification.

Bottom line some believe the bible and some believe men's false teachings. The bible says no believer will practice sin.

 

[JesusFan]

Bottom line some believe the bible and some believe men's false teachings. The bible says no believer will practice sin.

It does NOT mean though what you have assigned it to meaning!

Your understanding of this is NOT any historical Baptist view, but does indeed fit into Pentacostal Holiness church doctrine teaching on our state now in Christ...

I know, once believed it, belonged to a church that taught it!

Their caviat on it was a possibility, but ONLY IF one had the second act of Grace from God after salvation, IE, the "baptism in the HG!"

 

[HAMel]

First that is the OT. Second it is a nation not an individual.

Time for the "Ignore Tab".

Yep, time for the "Ignore Tab". There's no such thing as back-sliding. No way! Oh, well that refers to a nation...., not an individual. Yep, time for the "Ignore Tab".

 

[Robert Snow]

First that is the OT. Second it is a nation not an individual.

Time for the "Ignore Tab".

Yep, time for the "Ignore Tab". There's no such thing as back-sliding. No way! Oh, well that refers to a nation...., not an individual. Yep, time for the "Ignore Tab".

It won't matter, he will ignore your ignore tab. And, he'll do it before you ignore him! And,he'll do it better! :laugh:

 

[HAMel]

It won't matter, he will ignore your ignore tab. And, he'll do it before you ignore him! And,he'll do it better!

Narcissism comes to mind.

 

[Winman]

Then you should believe what they wrote instead of what you want to believe. John says no believer will or can practice sin.

John does not say "practice". He says a person born of God "cannot sin" PERIOD.

1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

The Greek word here is ou and is translated "not" 1210 times, "no" 147 times, and "cannot" 1410 times. It is an absolute term, it does not mean practice.

Understood properly, this verse means when someone is led by the Spirit it is absolutely impossible for them to sin, the Holy Spirit cannot sin.

You are obviously reading one of the MVs which mistranslates this word to mean practice.

NIV- No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.

ESV- No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's* seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God.

NASB- No one who is *born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is *born of God.

This is the reason for your misunderstanding. Many MVs agree with the KJB however.

RSV- No one born of God commits sin; for God's nature abides in him, and he cannot sin because he is born of God.

ASV- Whosoever is begotten of God doeth no sin, because his seed abideth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is begotten of God.

YLT- every one who hath been begotten of God, sin he doth not, because his seed in him doth remain, and he is not able to sin, because of God he hath been begotten.

WEB- Whoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

HNV- Whoever is born of God doesn't commit sin, because his seed remains in him; and he can't sin, because he is born of God.

Do all the Bibles say the same thing? Do they all convey the same understanding? This is a perfect example that they do not.

 

[freeatlast]

John does not say "practice". He says a person born of God "cannot sin" PERIOD.

1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

The Greek word here is ou and is translated "not" 1210 times, "no" 147 times, and "cannot" 1410 times. It is an absolute term, it does not mean practice.

Understood properly, this verse means when someone is led by the Spirit it is absolutely impossible for them to sin, the Holy Spirit cannot sin.

You are obviously reading one of the MVs which mistranslates this word to mean practice.



This is the reason for your misunderstanding. Many MVs agree with the KJB however.



Do all the Bibles say the same thing? Do they all convey the same understanding? This is a perfect example that they do not.

No that is how the transltors translted it but the word (practice) needs to be in there to do the Greek justice.

(3:9) "Is born" is a perfect participle in the Greek text, speaking of the past completed act of regeneration, namely, the impartation of the divine nature (2 Pet. 1:4) or divine life, and the present result, the fact that the person who has been made the recipient of divine life is by nature, and that permanently, a spiritually alive individual. "Commit" is poieō in the present tense which always speaks of continuous action unless the context limits it to punctiliar action, namely, the mere mention of the fact of the action, without the mentioning of details. The translation reads, "Every one who has been born out of God, with the present result that he is a born-one (of God), does not habitually do sin." "His seed" refers to the principle of divine life in the believer. It is this principle of divine life that makes it impossible for a Christian to live habitually in sin, for the divine nature causes the child of God to hate sin and love righteousness, and gives him both the desire and the power to do God's will, as Paul says, "God is the One who is constantly putting forth energy in you, giving you both the desire and power to do His good pleasure" (Phil. 2:13). Smith comments: "The reason of the impossibility of a child of God continuing in sin. The germ of the divine life has been implanted in our souls, and it grows — a gradual process and subject to occasional retardations, yet sure, attaining at length to full fruition. The believer's lapses into sin are like the mischances of the weather which hinder the seed's growth. The growth of a living seed may be checked temporarily; if there be no growth, there is no life."
—Wuest's Word Studies

 

[jbh28]

John does not say "practice". He says a person born of God "cannot sin" PERIOD.

1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

The Greek word here is ou and is translated "not" 1210 times, "no" 147 times, and "cannot" 1410 times. It is an absolute term, it does not mean practice.

Understood properly, this verse means when someone is led by the Spirit it is absolutely impossible for them to sin, the Holy Spirit cannot sin.

You are obviously reading one of the MVs which mistranslates this word to mean practice.

This is one area where the KJV doesn't demonstrate something. This is not a one time event but an ongoing event. That's why the term "practice" is very correct because it shows what the Greek had that cannot be translated with just the word cannot. Otherwise, one would be forced to teach that once a person is saved, he cannot sin. This obviously is not true.

 

[righteousdude2]

Some on this Board May Call that 20 Years....

So what do you call the 20 years he professed Christ and lived as a Christian?

......wasted time (or, time served)! I call it going prodigal, and returning. However, there are those who would say I'm wrong. So let them say I'm wrong. Only God's grace will see us through both the good and bad in our life.

Now that is the awesome God that most of us serves. Even those who are rigid and legalistic in nature will find that in the end (in casting forth so much judgment in this life and on this board), they have sinned too, and been forgiven numerous times over, even though they may not realize this has been done! :smilewinkgrin:

 

[righteousdude2]

Oh, Please.....

No that is how the transltors translted it but the word (practice) needs to be in there to do the Greek justice.

(3:9) "Is born" is a perfect participle in the Greek text, speaking of the past completed act of regeneration, namely, the impartation of the divine nature (2 Pet. 1:4) or divine life, and the present result, the fact that the person who has been made the recipient of divine life is by nature, and that permanently, a spiritually alive individual. "Commit" is poieō in the present tense which always speaks of continuous action unless the context limits it to punctiliar action, namely, the mere mention of the fact of the action, without the mentioning of details. The translation reads, "Every one who has been born out of God, with the present result that he is a born-one (of God), does not habitually do sin." "His seed" refers to the principle of divine life in the believer. It is this principle of divine life that makes it impossible for a Christian to live habitually in sin, for the divine nature causes the child of God to hate sin and love righteousness, and gives him both the desire and the power to do God's will, as Paul says, "God is the One who is constantly putting forth energy in you, giving you both the desire and power to do His good pleasure" (Phil. 2:13). Smith comments: "The reason of the impossibility of a child of God continuing in sin. The germ of the divine life has been implanted in our souls, and it grows — a gradual process and subject to occasional retardations, yet sure, attaining at length to full fruition. The believer's lapses into sin are like the mischances of the weather which hinder the seed's growth. The growth of a living seed may be checked temporarily; if there be no growth, there is no life."
—Wuest's Word Studies

.....Get a life that isn't so uptight and legalistic before you die and realize you wrongly judged and condemned your fellow brothers and sisters in this life. :tear:

I am so glad that the God that saved me, saved an imperfect person that needed room to make mistakes and learn from them in this life, as He uses my life on earth to prepare me to serve along side of Him in heaven.

Then again, I am not about to be that critical of your spirit of judgment, because you may just be getting practice for your new job in heaven according to Paul in 1 Cor. 6:3???

I think the parable of the potter and the clay bests suits my life. He is forever molding, breaking and remolding this pot in order to get it where it can be used to ( serve and represent Him! :thumbsup:

I know I'm not perfect, and I know I have lots of room to grow. I will never tell anyone in this life that I am perfect, but I'll tell them that by His amazing Grace, I have been forgiven (Matthew 18:21-22 and SEE:http://www.openbible.info/topics/forgiving_one_another). If God expects me to forgive someone else 70 times 7, would He not beholden to do the same in my case? I think so!

 

[freeatlast]

.....Get a life that isn't so uptight and legalistic before you die and realize you wrongly judged and condemned your fellow brothers and sisters in this life. :tear:

I am so glad that the God that saved me, saved an imperfect person that needed room to make mistakes and learn from them in this life, as He uses my life on earth to prepare me to serve along side of Him in heaven.

Then again, I am not about to be that critical of your spirit of judgment, because you may just be getting practice for your new job in heaven according to Paul in 1 Cor. 6:3???

I think the parable of the potter and the clay bests suits my life. He is forever molding, breaking and remolding this pot in order to get it where it can be used to ( serve and represent Him! :thumbsup:

I know I'm not perfect, and I know I have lots of room to grow. I will never tell anyone in this life that I am perfect, but I'll tell them that by His amazing Grace, I have been forgiven (Matthew 18:21-22 and SEE:http://www.openbible.info/topics/forgiving_one_another). If God expects me to forgive someone else 70 times 7, would He not beholden to do the same in my case? I think so!

No brothers have been condemned. If a person is saved they are saved and they are being lead of the spirit. If a person claims to be saved and they are walking in the flesh they are lost. Romans 8:4-9.
It is you who is condemning people by telling them they can be saved and walk (practice) in sin. All you do is lock them in a false hope and if they die like that you are responsible for their soul.
So I am glad He saved you too. It just did not happen when you think it did according to scripture as you admit that there was a time when you were not following the Lord but rather living (practicing sin).
1John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him
1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
Here are a couple good messages I would point you to if you want to hear the truth.
http://www.gerald285.com/web_media/BirthmarksofaBeliever.32.mp3
http://www.swordandtrowel.org/Player.aspx?code=2011-11-27-DG

 

[Winman]

This is one area where the KJV doesn't demonstrate something. This is not a one time event but an ongoing event. That's why the term "practice" is very correct because it shows what the Greek had that cannot be translated with just the word cannot. Otherwise, one would be forced to teach that once a person is saved, he cannot sin. This obviously is not true.

Baloney, even a majority of the MVs agree with the KJB. And Young's Literal (which is not a MV) states it clearly, it says a person who is born of God does not sin, and is not "able" to sin. But those who translated the NIV and ESV have completely changed the meaning of this verse, and you can see the effect, it introduces Lordship Salvation.

 

[freeatlast]

Baloney, even a majority of the MVs agree with the KJB. And Young's Literal (which is not a MV) states it clearly, it says a person who is born of God does not sin, and is not "able" to sin. But those who translated the NIV and ESV have completely changed the meaning of this verse, and you can see the effect, it introduces Lordship Salvation.

The bible teaches Lordship salvation. No place does it say we are to receive Him as Savior. It says to confess Him as Lord. You might be interested in this.
http://www.swordandtrowel.org/Player.aspx?code=2011-11-27-DG

Once a person is saved they never go back into the practice of sin. 1 John 3:9