relapse?

[JesusFan]

Winman, I'm still waiting your reply on the post that was about repentance after salvation.

Its still part tof the Gospel message, eh?

Confession/repentence flip sides of the same coin!

 

[freeatlast]

Nice, you resort to name-calling.

Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

This verse says all Christians are led by the Spirit, yes?

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so ye cannot do the things that ye would.

Paul shows here that the Christian is still influenced by the flesh. There is an internal war going on. Otherwise it would not be necessary to repeatedly tell believers to submit to the Spirit and word of God and to deny the flesh.

All 1 Jn 3:9 is saying is that a person being led by the Spirit cannot sin. It is impossible. It is just as impossible for a person to walk in the flesh and not sin.

Much of Paul's teaching does not make sense if your doctrine is true. Why would Paul constantly warn and preach against sin if it were not a problem for Christians? It would be completely unnecessary. The fact that he preached so often against sin confirms the fact that we retain the flesh and have to constantly battle it.

Everybody "practices" sin. You may not practice it as often as others, but you still practice sin if you sin at all.

I am not condoning sin at all, but if you think you have overcome sin you are deceiving yourself. As in the garden of Eden, you only have to sin ONCE.

Name calling? You must be extremely sensitive. And no everybody does not practice sin. If a person is practicing sin they are not saved. 1John 3

 

[JesusFan]

Name calling? You must be extremely sensitive. And no everybody does not practice sin. If a person is practicing sin they are not saved. 1John 3

can a Christian have a besitting sin hinder their walk with God, as per hebrews...

can a Christian commit even gross sins, as per 1 Corinthians a man found have realtions with stepmother?

Seems that to practice sin does NOT mean what you have vested the term with!

 

[Winman]

Name calling? You must be extremely sensitive. And no everybody does not practice sin. If a person is practicing sin they are not saved. 1John 3

Yes, you implied my beliefs are Gnostic.

I can see why you think you are sinless now, you are in complete denial of when you do wrong.

Oh, and if being self-righteous is a sin, trust me, you are practicing sin continually.

 

[freeatlast]

A Christian still has the flesh/sin principle to deal with, see Apostle paul and John, and still have the option to freely chose to either walk in their flesh or in the HS!

Yielding to the flesh will yield bad fruit, as in loss of rewards, loss of effective witness, loss of peace and fellowship with God, lack of answered prayers etc until they confess and repent to God in order to be restored back again...

IF they choose to yield to the HS, will have Him produce good fruit and faithful living, and basically opposite of all those things listed IF abiding in the flesh!

No Christian practices sin. 1John 3:9

 

[jbh28]

Its still part tof the Gospel message, eh?

Confession/repentence flip sides of the same coin!

I was discussing about after a person is a believer, that a believer will repent and not practice sin.

 

[freeatlast]

Yes, you implied my beliefs are Gnostic.

I can see why you think you are sinless now, you are in complete denial of when you do wrong.

Oh, and if being self-righteous is a sin, trust me, you are practicing sin continually.

This is your words;
"The verse is not saying a Christian can never sin, but it is saying a Christian can never sin when under the influence of the Spirit. It is impossible to sin while being led of the Spirit."

That is a form of Gnostic teaching although it is altered. By the way the passage you are referring to is not teaching what you said as there is no such suggestion in the passage..

 

[freeatlast]

:tear:

.....And that is that the pronouncement of Ichabod over you and your theological stand and understanding. In Jesus name I proclaim the words of Ichabod (the glory - within you - has departed) over you! Furthermore, I am giving up on trying to reason with you. From this forward, you are on your own FAL! raying:

You still think you are god I see pronouncing Ichabod on people. The difference in you and me is I believe the bible and you have your one beliefs. Evidently god has given you some special revelation that the book does not mean what it says so I would suggest prayer on my behalf from you to get Him to show me the same thing you believe.
In the mean time I will be praying for you to believe the bible. God bless.

 

[Winman]

This is your words;
"The verse is not saying a Christian can never sin, but it is saying a Christian can never sin when under the influence of the Spirit. It is impossible to sin while being led of the Spirit."

That is a form of Gnostic teaching although it is altered. By the way the passage you are referring to is not teaching what you said as there is no such suggestion in the passage..

Believe whatever you want FAL. You are betting the house on one of the most difficult and controversial verses in all of scripture. This verse says a person born of God CANNOT SIN, it does not say practice sin.

You just can't grasp that salvation is a FREE GIFT can you? (Rom 5:15, 16, 18)

Salvation is not some sort of contract where you have to quit sinning, or even promise to quit sinning to be saved. It is a FREE GIFT, all you have to do is accept it.

Now, when you receive Jesus you will receive the Holy Spirit. Now you are a partaker of the divine nature and it will be natural to do good. This is what 1 Jn 3:9 is saying, you now have the seed (Holy Spirit/Word of God) in your heart and you CANNOT sin when you allow yourself to be led by the Spirit.

But our body is not saved and will still tempt us. We will have to battle the flesh until we receive our new incorruptable body. Until then we will fall into sin on occasion, depending on who we obey.

But Christians can fall into sin, Paul wrote of a Christian who was living with his father's wife in Corinthians. I would call living day by day like this practicing sin. But later this same man turned from this sin. We don't know how long this went on, but it may have been years.

 

[Winman]

This is your words;
"The verse is not saying a Christian can never sin, but it is saying a Christian can never sin when under the influence of the Spirit. It is impossible to sin while being led of the Spirit."

That is a form of Gnostic teaching although it is altered. By the way the passage you are referring to is not teaching what you said as there is no such suggestion in the passage..

Believe whatever you want FAL. You are betting the house on one of the most difficult and controversial verses in all of scripture. This verse says a person born of God CANNOT SIN, it does not say practice sin.

You just can't grasp that salvation is a FREE GIFT can you? (Rom 5:15, 16, 18)

Salvation is not some sort of contract where you have to quit sinning, or even promise to quit sinning to be saved. It is a FREE GIFT, all you have to do is accept it.

Now, when you receive Jesus you will receive the Holy Spirit. Now you are a partaker of the divine nature and it will be natural to do good. This is what 1 Jn 3:9 is saying, you now have the seed (Holy Spirit/Word of God) in your heart and you CANNOT sin when you allow yourself to be led by the Spirit.

But our body is not saved and will still tempt us. We will have to battle the flesh until we receive our new incorruptable body. Until then we will fall into sin on occasion, depending on who we obey.

But Christians can fall into sin, Paul wrote of a Christian who was living with his father's wife in 1 Cor 5:1. I would call living day by day like this practicing sin. But later this same man turned from this sin. We don't know how long this went on, but it may have been years.

It's a free gift FAL, FREE gift. Look up the word "free".

 

[JesusFan]

I was discussing about after a person is a believer, that a believer will repent and not practice sin.

Think that is the very point John is making in 1 John, that a real Christian will have God produced repentance/confession when they do sin, and that will be what keeps them from habitually practicing sin, in that their new natures will lead them back to God, its just some get there quicker by choice than others!

 

[freeatlast]

Believe whatever you want FAL. You are betting the house on one of the most difficult and controversial verses in all of scripture. This verse says a person born of God CANNOT SIN, it does not say practice sin.

You just can't grasp that salvation is a FREE GIFT can you? (Rom 5:15, 16, 18)

Salvation is not some sort of contract where you have to quit sinning, or even promise to quit sinning to be saved. It is a FREE GIFT, all you have to do is accept it.

Now, when you receive Jesus you will receive the Holy Spirit. Now you are a partaker of the divine nature and it will be natural to do good. This is what 1 Jn 3:9 is saying, you now have the seed (Holy Spirit/Word of God) in your heart and you CANNOT sin when you allow yourself to be led by the Spirit.

But our body is not saved and will still tempt us. We will have to battle the flesh until we receive our new incorruptable body. Until then we will fall into sin on occasion, depending on who we obey.

But Christians can fall into sin, Paul wrote of a Christian who was living with his father's wife in Corinthians. I would call living day by day like this practicing sin. But later this same man turned from this sin. We don't know how long this went on, but it may have been years.

Now wait a minute. Don't you say we are not accountable to the commandments? How would this be wrong (sin) if we are not subject to the commandments?
By the way I agree that Christians can sin. They just cannot practice sin. 1John 3:9
Also you say this person was saved and came back. How do you know? The scripture does not call him a brother, why do you. It just says that there is one in their mist who is doing fornication. Are you saying you think everyone in the early church was saved? I hope not! Also there is no way to know if this guy ever got right as there is no scripture that clearly points to such.
Like i said you belief on 1John 3 is in the line of Gnosticism. The Greek requires it to read practice.

(3:8) "Committeth" is poieō, in a present tense participle, "He who is continually doing sin." Smith suggests, "He that makes sin his business or practice." "Of" is ek, "out of," used with the ablative case, gives us the ablative of source. He who continually does sin is out of the devil as a source. That is, his sinful propensities, issuing from his totally depraved nature inherited from Adam, find their ultimate source in the devil who brought about the downfall of our first parents. Habitual actions again are an index of character, and here, of source. "Sinneth" is a present of duration which speaks of that which has begun in the past and continues into the present. The translation could read, "The devil has been sinning from the beginning." Vincent says: "He sinned in the beginning, and has never ceased to sin from the beginning, and still sins." Smith identifies the words "the beginning" as "the beginning of his diabolic career."
"Destroy" is in the Greek text luō, "to loosen, dissolve." West-cott comments: "The works of the devil are represented as having a certain consistency and coherence. They show a kind of solid front. But Christ, by His coming, has revealed them in their complete unsubstantiality. He has 'undone' the seeming bonds by which they were held together." But He has done more than that. By the blood of His Cross He has paid for sin, made a way of escape from the arch enemy of men's souls, defeated the purposes of the devil, and will finally bring about his complete downfall.
Translation: The one who is habitually doing sin is out of the devil as a source, because from the beginning the devil has been sinning. For this purpose there was manifested the Son of God, in order that He might bring to naught the works of the devil.
(3:9) "Is born" is a perfect participle in the Greek text, speaking of the past completed act of regeneration, namely, the impartation of the divine nature (2 Pet. 1:4) or divine life, and the present result, the fact that the person who has been made the recipient of divine life is by nature, and that permanently, a spiritually alive individual. "Commit" is poieō in the present tense which always speaks of continuous action unless the context limits it to punctiliar action, namely, the mere mention of the fact of the action, without the mentioning of details. The translation reads, "Every one who has been born out of God, with the present result that he is a born-one (of God), does not habitually do sin." "His seed" refers to the principle of divine life in the believer. It is this principle of divine life that makes it impossible for a Christian to live habitually in sin, for the divine nature causes the child of God to hate sin and love righteousness, and gives him both the desire and the power to do God's will, as Paul says, "God is the One who is constantly putting forth energy in you, giving you both the desire and power to do His good pleasure" (Phil. 2:13). Smith comments: "The reason of the impossibility of a child of God continuing in sin. The germ of the divine life has been implanted in our souls, and it grows — a gradual process and subject to occasional retardations, yet sure, attaining at length to full fruition. The believer's lapses into sin are like the mischances of the weather which hinder the seed's growth. The growth of a living seed may be checked temporarily; if there be no growth, there is no life."
"Cannot sin" is dunamai, "I am not able," and the present infinitive of hamartanō, "to sin." The infinitive in the present tense in Greek always speaks of continuous, habitual action, never the mere fact of the action, since the aorist infinitive which refers to the fact of the action, may be used at will if the writer wishes to speak of the mere fact without reference to details. The translation therefore is, "He is not able to habitually sin." The Greek text here holds no warrant for the erroneous teaching of sinless perfection.
Translation: Everyone who has been born out of God, with the present result that he is a born-one (of God), does not habitually do sin, because His seed remains in him. And he is not able to habitually sin, because out of God he has been born with the present result that he is a born-one (of God).
—Wuest's Word Studies

 

[JesusFan]

This is your words;
"The verse is not saying a Christian can never sin, but it is saying a Christian can never sin when under the influence of the Spirit. It is impossible to sin while being led of the Spirit."

That is a form of Gnostic teaching although it is altered. By the way the passage you are referring to is not teaching what you said as there is no such suggestion in the passage..

Apostle paul addresses that by stating that IF we yield to the sin principle dwelling within us still, will get 'baf fruit"
Yield to the HS, He will produce good fruit...

That principle is not Gnostic. unless you consider Apostle Paul to have been one!

 

[jbh28]

Think that is the very point John is making in 1 John, that a real Christian will have God produced repentance/confession when they do sin, and that will be what keeps them from habitually practicing sin, in that their new natures will lead them back to God, its just some get there quicker by choice than others!

Yes, the Spirit is in the person. That's the difference.

 

[freeatlast]

Apostle paul addresses that by stating that IF we yield to the sin principle dwelling within us still, will get 'baf fruit"
Yield to the HS, He will produce good fruit...

That principle is not Gnostic. unless you consider Apostle Paul to have been one!

Where is that passage?

 

[convicted1]

Where is that passage?

Acts chapter 29, Jude chapter 2, Revelation chapter 23, Isaiah chapter 67, and 1 John chapter 6....

 

[freeatlast]

Acts chapter 29, Jude chapter 2, Revelation chapter 23, Isaiah chapter 67, and 1 John chapter 6....

Yes I think that is where he got it from. :laugh:

 

[JesusFan]

Where is that passage?

galatians 5:13-26 where Apostle Paul contarsting to us what led by the flesh looks like, with what filled by HS looks like...

Those in galatia were fallign under the snare of 'works righteousness", and were trying to live for God in strenght of their flesh, which was a failure, as paul showed them saved by faith. live by faith!

Started in the HS, needed to rely upon His might to live for jesus, not try to keep the law by human efforts after getting saved by God!

 

[jbh28]

Acts chapter 29, Jude chapter 2, Revelation chapter 23, Isaiah chapter 67, and 1 John chapter 6....

Man, I've looked and looked and can't find those chapters. :laugh:

What's funny is that I John was the one that popped out to me and not the Jude.

 

[convicted1]

galatians 5:13-26 where Apostle Paul contarsting to us what led by the flesh looks like, with what filled by HS looks like...

Those in galaia were fallign under the snare of 'works righteousness", and were trying to live for God in strenght of their flesh, which was a failure, as paul showed them saved by faith. live by faith!

Started in the HS, needed to rely upon His might to live for jesus, not try to keep the law by human efforts after getting saved by God!

What is a tree known by Brother? Answer that biblically and you will find out all you need to know.....