Religion of Envy

Be that as it may, I feel sorry for the Iraqi civilians. My guess is that most of them aren't terrorists and are a lot like us.

Helen/AITB

 

That was a great article, thanks for posting it.

Helen,

You make a good point. We need to be in constant awareness that there are loads of people there, who if given the opportunity, would convert to Christianity. We need to be, at this time, in constant prayer that the Spirit will be preparing their hearts to receive the Word.

The ministry of Amazing Facts (a non SDA supported ministry, done by SDA members) is RIGHT NOW broadcasting the Gospel in (I think) 20+ languages over there. Radio and television and internet, the government cannot control. (unless they take away the radios, tv's, and computers).

We are broadcasting from outside Iraq in places that we are allies with, and the people in Iraq can here us.

Keep the non combatants in your prayers.

Pray that those who wish to harm the earth, and those who are killing innocent people will be stopped by nothing less than the Mighty Hand of God.

God Bless

 

Song Of Solomon 8:[6] Set me as a seal upon thine heart, as a seal upon thine arm: for love is strong as death; jealousy is cruel as the grave: the coals thereof are coals of fire, which hath a most vehement flame... Brother Glen The Primitive Baptist

 

Well, if you plan on converting a Muslim to Christianity you must first understand Christianity yourself, but after that you must understand that their religion is based on the idea that the Jews corrupted the word of God and that even Jesus did not deliver it fully to man, but Mohammed alone restored it to full perfection! Unless you can convince a Muslim that the Hebrew Scriptures are infallible, you will never be able to convince them that the New Testament Scriptures are infallible - and how can you convince them that the Hebrew Scriptures are infallible without removing their mistrust and hatred of the Jews that goes all the way back to Ishmael? It is a very hard task as you can see! It is hard to convert a Muslim to true Christianity, but how much harder to convert them to a Judaizing religion like the SDA?? They hate Jews after all.

I disagree greatly! Muslim terrorism is caused by their hatred of the Jews and Israel, and of course the fact that Israel is one of the U.S's allies. Even if the Muslims all became rich beyond their wildest dream terrorism would continue as long as there is no Palestinian state in Israel - Muslim leaders have said so themselves even after this war started (which doesn't display much smarts on their part)! Now, if you want to attribute their hatred of Israel to envy, go ahead. Ishmael vs. Issac becomes Moslems vs. Jews. But, you must understand that the entirety of their religion is based on their hatred of the Jews and mistrust of them.

(Gen 16:12 NIV) "He will be a wild donkey of a man; his hand will be against everyone and everyone's hand against him, and he will live in hostility toward all his brothers."

Can Ishmael be seen as a figure head or is this spoken of only him personally?

 

Sola,

Your last post to me was truly un Christlike.

God Bless

 

Three Mom:

Go ahead and promote the spreading of the Gospel as you are.
The message is the same......it's just the day that is in question.

"The day of salvation is now"
"Whosoever believes in Me I will in nowise cast out"
"Confess with thy mouth and believe in thy heart....."

These bible truths have no certain day connotations.

You're cool.....go ahead.

(Maybe just don't mention what day to worship on)

Jesus Loves you Anyhow !!

 

Singer,

You know, it is truly sad that people that call themselves Christians can believe that 'their Gospel' is better than another man's Gospel.

Truly sad.

The Amazing Facts ministry targets those who are lost, for the purpose of reaching people for Jesus. There is no agenda, there is no 'SDA Gospel'. It is the same Gospel that Paul and John and the other Apostles taught.

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved!

The ministry of AF had OVER 100,000 converts in Africa this past fall. The people there were converted to belief in Jesus.

It truly amazes me that people think that there is something wrong with teaching people that the Bible says we should obey.

There will be allot of explaining to do when we all get to heaven, for those who passed such harsh judgment upon their fellow laborors.

In Christ Service,
Until He comes.

God Bless,
Kelly

 

Sola,

You've hit the nail on the head with the Ishmael vs Issac comment.
That IS the exact issue today. It's like God has preset the stage
for all this Muslim vs Christianity discention going on today. There is no
way to escape it or to ever cure or curb it. It's God ordained. After all,
won't that be the two sides to the final battle !

God's armies (the bible mentions) will defeat the foe. Who else could be
against God ? Maybe not the Catholics afterall They're small players
in who's for or against God.

Singer

 

3AM, give me a break! It's unChristlike to point out what the Muslim religion is based on and what all must be done in order to convert a Muslim to Christianity? Oh please! Have you ever read any portion of the Koran? It says that Jesus said "worship my mother" - so obviously you can't just go to a Muslim and say "Jesus died for you" - there's a lot of overhead to deal with.

Singer, I'm not sure I follow you. Dan 11:37 sounds like it's describing a Catholic priest of some sort more than a Muslim for he shall not regard "the desire of women."

[ April 07, 2003, 10:44 PM: Message edited by: SolaScriptura in 2003 ]

 

(3Mom)
You know, it is truly sad that people that call themselves Christians can believe that 'their Gospel' is better than another man's Gospel.

(Singer)
Exactly 3Mom.....It actually is the same gospel. I wish more people could see that.
Some of us are accused of preaching a different gospel / a different Jesus. I say No.
The Jesus I heard about in the 2x2s is the same one that my Catholic friends pray to
and the same one you as an SDA reverence. How could we believe in a different
Jesus I ask? Are there two ? No !

"Mat 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert;
go not forth: behold, [he is] in the secret chambers; believe [it] not. "

Don't you think that verse does not warn us of a different Jesus, only warns us
of chasing after different cults/preachers etc. who try to lead us into exclusivism.
Take Jim Jones for example or the Hale Comet chasers etc. That....to me is
what a different Jesus means. I refrain to mention other more common ones.

(3Mom)
The Amazing Facts ministry targets those who are lost, for the purpose of reaching people for Jesus. There is no agenda, there is no 'SDA Gospel'. It is the same Gospel that Paul and John and the other Apostles taught.

(Singer)
Yes 3Mom, I agree, and it should stop there.

(3Mom)
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved!

(Singer)
Amen

(3Mom)
The ministry of AF had OVER 100,000 converts in Africa this past fall. The people there were converted to belief in Jesus.

It truly amazes me that people think that there is something wrong with teaching people that the Bible says we should obey.

(Singer)
There's so much controversy here though....unending/confusing/doubtful/unimportant
to salvation. Who do we believe ?

(3Mom)
There will be allot of explaining to do when we all get to heaven, for those who passed such harsh judgment upon their fellow laborors.

(Singer)
Lets be in unity then. We all are driven by the Holy Spirit to Go and Tell.
Simple Gospel....Period. Let's don't mention a denomination. Okay ?
The enchantment you have to evangelize is shared by many on this
board and it is common within many denominations and even the likes
of the unchurched.

 

You are right on some points.
First, There is no "SDA Gospel," as you say. I am in full agreement with you. The SDA does not have a gospel, at least not if they believe the same as you do. You do not believe in the deity of Christ. You do not believe that Christ is God. There is no gospel if Christ is not God. The very fact that He arose from the dead demonstrated His deity, the very thing that you deny. The Christ you believe in is not the Christ of the Bible, nor the Christ I believe in. The "gospel" you believe in, is not the gospel of the Bible, nor the gospel that the Bible teaches.

Thus when you say: "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ," it becomes meaningless, because the Christ that you are speaking of is a different Christ.
DHK

 

Sola:

I'm glad all this isn't important to salvation

I'd like to hang all this on the Pope too, but I'm trying to
keep an open mind here. I'm studying this too.

One commentary I looked up had this to say :

(37-39) The Antichrist's character and authority

a. Based on verse 37, many regard the Antichrist as of Jewish
descent; and some say also he may be a homosexual

i. But many commentators believe that the desire of women
refers to Jesus, in that all women desired the honor of
bearing Messiah, understanding "desire" as in Haggai 2:7

ii. Seing the desire of women as Jesus makes most sense in
light of the flow of context

b. The Antichrist's bottom line: power and wealth; and he knows
how to extend his power over many

Singer

 

DHK:

Concerning your response to 3Angels Mom :

That was a little crass...................
.............No, that was ALOT CRASS....................!

You sure you meant to accuse her of that...?

Now that would even make me mad and I'm a mild tempered person.

Singer

 

Is it crass? No. Is it true? Yes. Am I sure? Yes. Please check the trinity thread. Better yet have 3AM answer these questions for you:

#1. Is Jesus Christ "the Most High God"?

#2. Has Jesus Christ existed from all eternity?

#3. Did Chrit have an origin before His virgin birth?

#4. Do you believe in the trinity: God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit: three persons existing in one God, all co-equal, and eternal with each other.

 

I agree with 3AM here, we can preach Christ and the cross to moslems in the same manner as we preach to any non-christian.

Anyone who desires to know the real Christ will be ministered to by the Holy Spirit.

The Gospel is for all nations and incidentally for all men combatant and non-combatant alike.

Pray for all the people of Iraq.

God Bless

Enda

 

DHK:

In all your maturity and wisdom, you should by now have the knowledge
that those three topics you addressed are not even understood by the
average convert. Speaking for myself, I was saved for 25 years before
I even heard the topic arise that Jesus is God.....let alone believe it.

I did not disbelieve it, I just had not heard it explained.
Now that I've heard it explained, it's still hard to conceive.

Don't you agree that the four or five basic steps to salvation does not
even mention those three topics? I'd sure be at a loss to try to explain
that to a receptive ear with any consistency. It remains a mystery.
We do not HAVE to understand EVERYTHING in the bible to be saved.

Consider the invitation on the front page of this board :
"If you should die right now, do you know for sure that you would go to Heaven?

It gives the needed tools for salvation to occur without getting in to
deep doctrinal, controversial and mysterious subjects.

John 3:16 is commonly used in witnessing and all it says is that God gave
his only begotten Son. That's what I clung to for 25 years.

If 3AM is preaching/believing a different Jesus, then tell me how it's
possible for an unsaved person to pray to God for salvation and peace
and actually receive a lie from satan from a different God. (When there is
only ONE God) . Don't we at least have the confidence that the right
God will hear us ? If not, then you should question your own conversion.

1 Corinthians 8:6
But to us [there is but] one God, the Father, of whom [are] all things,
and we in him; and one Lord


Ephesians 4:5
One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

1 Corinthians 12:5
And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.

Singer

 

There is One Lord, as you have quoted. 3AM must, of necessity, believe in two Gods, or Lords: a greater one and a lesser one. She has a theology very much like the Jehovah Witnesses. SolaScriptura pointed this out on the Trinity thread. Neal also noticed it. There is only one God.

Salvation is really very simple. "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved." If you do not know who "the Lord Jesus Christ" is, then how can you be saved? If you define Jesus Christ as a prophet like the Muslims, and believe on him as they do, are you saved?
If you define him as Michael the archangel, and believe on him as the J.W.'s do, are you saved.
If you define him as the brother of Lucifer, and a created being, and believe on him that way are you saved?
What is your concept of Jesus Christ? Only God could die for your sins. Only God could rise from the dead. There is only one who was completely perfect, and without sin that could die for your sins. That is God. No man was ever sinless. Only God could die for all the sins of all the world, of all generations. Only God is timeless, and thus could do that. He alone is eternal.
If you believe that Christ is Lord, then what does "Lord" mean to you? What do you think it meant to Paul, on the Damascus road when he got saved. "Lord what wilt thou have me to do?" Who was Paul praying to when he said that: God or Jesus? The answer is both. Jesus is God.
DHK

 

LOL!!! I don 't think there will be any "explaining" being done in heaven! That's not what heaven is all about!!!! LOL

I wasn't aware trhe SDA didn't see Christ as fully divine and fully man. Wow!!!!

(Can we discuss that privately sometime please Singer?? )

Dear DKA ... I have to agree with Singer on one thing, and that is that I definately knew of God in my heart and life BEFORE someone presented the "Trinity" topic to me! I didn't know what on EARTH they were talking about!!!! I've had a good studyup since, and now feel more informed ...yet, I wonder if that has been progress in me? It wasn't that knowledge which gave me salvation.

However, IF what you say is correct, and that is the SDA church do not see Jesus as divine, then I wash my hands of it! You are right in what you say on this matter.

Anyone ..... feel free to correct me!

Cheers folks

 

DHK,
Yes, you're right on all those points, but consider what Glorious said...."It wasn't
that knowledge that saved me".

Consider a child or young adult who gives their life to "the Lord" at a
summer camp. Are they expected to know every aspect of the comparisons
and differences between Jesus and God.

The group I was raised in (2x2) have never preached the Trinity issue
to this day. But we're talking about people here (2x2's) who very much
know what it means to "believe in Jesus" , "believe that Jesus rose from
the dead" and to profess a saving faith in His shed blood.

I think we make too big of a deal out of it.

As for the SDAs, I'll have to go back and read that thread, but a minor
misalignment in a person's concept of the mysteries of God/Jesus is not
a reason to discount their entire relationship with God.

Salvation is based on grace through faith. It is not based on having
a total understanding of the mysteries of the universe. If that were the
case, then only Einstein type scholars who live to be 900 years old would
even have the slightest chance at salvation.

Salvation is not obtained, DHK.
It is not earned...it is not a degree awarded according to our understanding.

It is a gift.....freely given according to our choice to believe whether Jesus
(regardless of knowing His connection with the creator) died for our sins , rose
from the dead and LIVES.

John 3:18
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth
not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the
name of the only begotten Son of God.


Now unless you want to disect what "Believe" means, lets at least give
the 2x2s and the SDAs and Catholics and anyone else who attests to
"believing in the name of the only begotten Son of God" some CREDIT.