Lakeside - I'd say this is pretty close to what you want. Where does it say the church is truth?
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Renouncing the Catholic faith formally
- Thread starter Croyant
- Start date
Lakeside - I'd say this is pretty close to what you want. Where does it say the church is truth?
2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
--I have quoted plenty of Scripture; all of it inspired; none of more inspired than the other. You are in a sad state of affairs if you believe only the "red letters" of your Bible are the inspired parts.
Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
--This is sola scriptura. It was practiced in the OT. Those that didn't practice it, or agree with what was practiced "had no light in them." Agreed?
Act 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
--This is sola scriptura. It was condoned, not condemned, by the Apostle Paul.
This is the command of Jesus to practice sola scriptura:
Joh 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
--What is the result of not doing so:
Joh 5:40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
1Co 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
--If your foundation is not Christ, you are nothing at all.
Christ is revealed to us through the Scriptures, not through anything else.
1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
--The spiritual water that we drink is Christ.
The Rock is Christ; not Peter. Christ, not Peter is our foundation.
Christ is revealed to us through His Word.
2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
--The private interpretation of scripture is what the RCC practices. It is what is enforced upon the Catholics. They are not allowed to have their own personal interpretation. This is contrary to the Word itself.
--The Scripture did not come through "The Church" so-called. It came via God the Spirit, as He used the prophets and the apostles who wrote as God moved them to write. That is how we have our Bible today. The RCC had nothing to do with it.
The church did not give us the Bible.
God gave his disciples the Word.
Then God told his disciples:
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
--Taking God's Word to the ends of the earth, they then established churches. This was God's plan.
God only gave us One Church, formed on His Apostles/ successors. nowhere in the NT does Jesus ever say that the Holy Bible is above his church [meaning One Apostolic Church ] to the contrary, Jesus gave all authority to His Apostolic church as in [Luke 10: 16 ] Christ loved His Church nothing about Him loving his bible as His church [ see Eph.5; 25-26 ] Church, not churches or all Christians, is the pillar/foundation of truth [ see 1 Tim.3: 15 ]. Christ protects His Church [ Matt.16: 18=20 ], no verse where God protects His Bible as much as His Church [ and for the last 2,000 years his Church has weathered many a bad storm ] We are to obey his Church as found in Book of Heb. 13 or 18; 17 ]
his Church contains "good and bad ' people as in { Matt.5: 13-16; matt.13: 1-9 } Now show me a verse from Jesus [in red in your KJV Bibles where Jesus gave more emphasis to His Holy Bible than his Church, remember I said more emphasis to his Holy Bible than His ' One ' church.
his Church contains "good and bad ' people as in { Matt.5: 13-16; matt.13: 1-9 } Now show me a verse from Jesus [in red in your KJV Bibles where Jesus gave more emphasis to His Holy Bible than his Church, remember I said more emphasis to his Holy Bible than His ' One ' church.
Yes, their is one church. Unfortunately you are not grasping what that is. *
"assembly, congregation, church; the Church, the whole body of Christian believers." http://biblehub.com/greek/1577.htm
McCree, yes that is the church, but not any two or more churches of the non-Catholic variety, because they contradict the wish of Jesus, as we see from these verses-{ Eph.4: 3-6 } { John 17: 21 } { Matt16: 19 } all of those Protestant [ meaning those churches that protest against Christ's Apostolic Church ] churches adhere to different Doctrinal Teaching.
annsni, the church tells you that it is Apostolic and Catholic as stated 110 A.D.
Jesus only taught his apostles the fullness of the Christian faith. Jesus gives those very same apostles His Authority see Luke 10; 16 . He tells them that he will build a church [ one church ] see Matt 16; 15- 19 ] Jesus tells his apostles to go out into the "whole World /Universal the Greek word meaning katholic/ Catholic. In Aramaic, the language Jesus spoke, Simon,s name was " Kepha" [ which means a massive rock ] Later this name was translated into Greek as "Petros [ John 1: 42 and into English as Peter. Christ gave Peter alone the " keys of the kingdom Matt.16: 19 ] Jesus also gave similar power to the other apostles Matt.18:18, but only to Peter was given the keys, symbols of his authority to rule the church in Jesus, absence.
From Bible;
The Church is One: Rom.12:5; 1 Cor 10:17, 12: 13
The Church is Holy ; Eph 5: 25-27, Rev. 19: 7-8
The Church is catholic ; Matt. 28; 19-20, Rev. 5: 9-10
The Church is Apostolic: Eph.2: 19-20
Jesus only taught his apostles the fullness of the Christian faith. Jesus gives those very same apostles His Authority see Luke 10; 16 . He tells them that he will build a church [ one church ] see Matt 16; 15- 19 ] Jesus tells his apostles to go out into the "whole World /Universal the Greek word meaning katholic/ Catholic. In Aramaic, the language Jesus spoke, Simon,s name was " Kepha" [ which means a massive rock ] Later this name was translated into Greek as "Petros [ John 1: 42 and into English as Peter. Christ gave Peter alone the " keys of the kingdom Matt.16: 19 ] Jesus also gave similar power to the other apostles Matt.18:18, but only to Peter was given the keys, symbols of his authority to rule the church in Jesus, absence.
From Bible;
The Church is One: Rom.12:5; 1 Cor 10:17, 12: 13
The Church is Holy ; Eph 5: 25-27, Rev. 19: 7-8
The Church is catholic ; Matt. 28; 19-20, Rev. 5: 9-10
The Church is Apostolic: Eph.2: 19-20
1. The church that you believe in is built on a lie. It can be shown by Scripture that if Peter was ever in Rome it was not for more than one year, and in that year he was there as a prisoner awaiting death, not as a leader of a church. He never was a bishop of Rome.
The foundation of Catholicism is built on a lie.
2. If the first pope is a lie, then all the succeeding popes fall like dominoes. They also are lies. There is no succession.
3. There was no "Church," only "churches," as the word "ekklesia" indicates. Paul went on 3 missionary journeys and established over 100 churches, none of which were connected together in a denomination.
4. Paul wrote to 13 churches or pastors of churches, whose letters make up half of the NT.
5. Jesus wrote to 7 pastors of 7 churches, all independent of each other in the book of Revelation, all existing churches at that time. There were no bishops (in the RCC hierarchical definition of the term), only pastors and deacons. There were no denominations.
There was no such thing as "The Church." No such thing existed.
You believe in a fantasy, based on the lie that Peter was in Rome as the first pope, and that he was there for 25 years. Who told you that lie, and why do you believe it?
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
"Though WE (Apostles) OR an Angel from heaven should bring to you a different Gospel - let him be accursed!" Gal 1:6-9.
So then if not an Apostle - nor for dead sure a wildly-claimed successor to an apostle - nor even an Angel is allowed to alter the doctrine already given at the time Galatians chapter 1 is written - that alone does away with every tradition in the RCC - and shows that the existing doctrine at the time of Gal 1 trumps all supposed successor-apostles.
Same thing in Acts 17:11 - "they studied the scriptures daily to SEE IF those things spoken to them -- were SO" -- spoken to them by a first generation, first order Apostle - not a wildly-claimed successor of one.
"If they speak Not according to THIS WORD - there is NO light in them" Is 8:20
in Christ,
Bob
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
That church they started - is the one the RCC condemned in Lateran IV.
DHK, want to hear another fantasy shepherd story:
There was this Shepherd His name was Jesus He as a Shepherd of His flock, had many millions of different commands for each of His sheep. The end result is that sheep all over the world are so confused they can't stay in their own pasture , they must always keep searching for another pasture with a confused shepherd as confused as they are.
Now here is a more realistic story of a Shepherd named Jesus: Jesus the Chief Shepherd wants His sheep to be united with the same commands, so Jesus the Chief Shepherd has a fold that follows His earthly shepherds because Jesus taught only those earthly shepherds the very same commands, and they taught other earthly shepherds those very same commands. so what we have is a world- wide fold of sheep that follow in Jesus' green pasture. Most of those sheep stay in that huge one green pasture.
There was this Shepherd His name was Jesus He as a Shepherd of His flock, had many millions of different commands for each of His sheep. The end result is that sheep all over the world are so confused they can't stay in their own pasture , they must always keep searching for another pasture with a confused shepherd as confused as they are.
Now here is a more realistic story of a Shepherd named Jesus: Jesus the Chief Shepherd wants His sheep to be united with the same commands, so Jesus the Chief Shepherd has a fold that follows His earthly shepherds because Jesus taught only those earthly shepherds the very same commands, and they taught other earthly shepherds those very same commands. so what we have is a world- wide fold of sheep that follow in Jesus' green pasture. Most of those sheep stay in that huge one green pasture.
Wow - the stretching here is greater than one would do in yoga!
IOW, you have no answer to the actual facts of history, the facts that I have presented you, namely:
DHK, it doesn't matter to me if Peter was in Rome or not, [ but I truly believe he was because the early Christians say Peter was in Rome they were there, you and your congregation was not } wherever Peter is there is the Catholic Church.
It's really funny how you in the minority believe in your history and interpretation as being authentic, when the most scholarly Historians have proved your second string historians as incompetent. We have the early Christian writings along with secular historical data, we have main-line Protestant church archives of the 16th century church that agree with early Catholic history, we have even the early Protestant church fathers agreeing that the papists gave us the Holy Bible, we have the early Roman writers that verify of the early Christians receiving the Eucharist, we have early Jewish writers that write about how it was the Catholic Church that gave the Holy Bible it's Canonical List of Holy Books that compile the Christian Holy Bible. The Dead Sea Scrolls support the Catholic OT. What evidence besides a Holy Bible hijacked from the Catholic Church, that you inadequately interpret do you have ? The answer is nothing.
It's really funny how you in the minority believe in your history and interpretation as being authentic, when the most scholarly Historians have proved your second string historians as incompetent. We have the early Christian writings along with secular historical data, we have main-line Protestant church archives of the 16th century church that agree with early Catholic history, we have even the early Protestant church fathers agreeing that the papists gave us the Holy Bible, we have the early Roman writers that verify of the early Christians receiving the Eucharist, we have early Jewish writers that write about how it was the Catholic Church that gave the Holy Bible it's Canonical List of Holy Books that compile the Christian Holy Bible. The Dead Sea Scrolls support the Catholic OT. What evidence besides a Holy Bible hijacked from the Catholic Church, that you inadequately interpret do you have ? The answer is nothing.
You should care. It is the foundation of your religion and it is based on a lie.
"My second string historians--incompetent"?? Those would be: Peter himself, Paul, Luke, the Holy Spirit of God, and the Scriptures He has given to us. That is quite a blasphemous statement you have made, especially calling the Holy Spirit incompetent. Remember, I proved to you that Peter was not in Rome, using the Scriptures alone. So what incompetent historians did I use? Just whom are you referring to?
And all this is of greater value to you than the Word of God itself??
Nothing but the inspired Word of God. And that is not sufficient for you.
Telling, isn't it?
I have already showed you how a Catholic scholar, archaeologist, and priest found Peter's tomb in Jerusalem, and how the pope tried to cover it up. One lie to cover up another lie, The whole system is based on lies. It's hard to have a succession back to the apostles when the NT knows nothing of monarchial bishops. Another Catholic lie and myth.
You are as brainwashed as any cult member.