Repeating the Lords Prayer

[Adonia]

Such repetition was heart motivated, so no harm done.

So repetition of prayer (even by us) is okay as long as it is heart motivated? I agree wholeheartedly!

Now, please explain your stance now against what you said earlier where there was no caveat. "It doesn't bother me not to pray the Lords prayer in church as we are not supposed to use vain repetitions anyway".

So is praying the Lords Prayer a "vain repetition" or not?

 

[Rob_BW]

Wait, I have been assured on this forum that the Scripture against vain repetition was specifically written about contemporary Christian music?

Seriously, though, we say the Lord's Prayer as a group occasionally, but it's not a scheduled part of our service. I'm not so concerned if a congregation says it every time they meet, as that doesn't seem like a vain repetition.

But I would have to wonder about assigning multiple recitations of the Lord's Prayer as a form of punishment.

 

[MarysSon]

So no Scripture?

Where is the Scriptural mandate that everything we practice as Christians MUST be in Scripture?

As @Walpole mentioned - the instruction to recite the Lord's Prayer is the 1st century document, The Didache (Teachings of the Twelve Apostles).

Here's an interesting footnote about your "Sola Scriptura" requirement and The Didache:
The concluding doxology of the Lord's Prayer that we read in the KJV (For thine is the kingdom ...) is NOT in the original manuscripts. This was an ADDITION from the Didache that was written manually onto the footnotes of a handwritten copy that eventually made its way into the KJV.
Many Protestant translations correctly omit this "verse" - which is not really an actual verse.

So, tell me - if you object to the recitation of the Lord's Prayer - why don't you object to the Protestant practice of including that doxology?

 

[MarysSon]

It doesn't bother me not to pray the Lords prayer in church as we are not supposed to use vain repetitions anyway.

So repetition of prayer (even by us) is okay as long as it is heart motivated? I agree wholeheartedly!

Now, please explain your stance now against what you said earlier where there was no caveat. "It doesn't bother me not to pray the Lords prayer in church as we are not supposed to use vain repetitions anyway".

So is praying the Lords Prayer a "vain repetition" or not?

I'm sure you'll agree - how could a prayer to God be a "vain repetition"??

In Matt. 26:44, our Lord himself prayed the exact same prayer three times in the Garden of Gethsemane after the Last Supper.
Was this a “vain repetition”??

In Luke 18:13, the tax collector kept beating his breast and praying, “God be merciful to me, a sinner.”
Was this a “vain repetition”??

We see in Rev. 4:8 that the angels pray the exact same prayer day and night without ceasing in the presence of almighty God, “Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lord God Almighty.” Is this a “vain repetition”??

Is Psalm 136 promoting “vain repetitions” when it goes on for 26 verses in a row, repeating the exact same prayer, “God's love endures forever”??

Is the Book of Daniel promoting “vain repetitions” as we read the exact same prayer for 32 verses (Dan. 3:56-88), which is “bless the Lord; praise and exalt him above all forever”??

 

[Yeshua1]

Does your church recited the Lords prayer?

If so - Why?
and if for some reason, it's not repeated on weekend - how bad would that be?


If your church does no do so, Why NOT

IF a guest preacher came in one Sunday and did so ......

Its a pattern of how to pray, but not a specific one to be prayed!

 

[Walpole]

Its a pattern of how to pray, but not a specific one to be prayed!

Wrong. The Apostles asked Jesus not HOW to pray, but rather to teach them TO pray. Jesus answers them with: "When ye pray, SAY, Our Father which art in heaven..."

Luke 11:1-2 ---> And it came to pass, that, as he was praying in a certain place, when he ceased, one of his disciples said unto him, "Lord, teach us to pray, as John also taught his disciples." And he said unto them, "When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth."


Each time I visit this site, I am astonished by the lack of knowledge of the Scriptures the Baptist posters exhibit. It's shocking.

 

[MarysSon]

Its a pattern of how to pray, but not a specific one to be prayed!

That's not true.

As I stated before - the 1st century document, The Didache (Teachings of the Twelve Apostles) instructed Christians to pray this specific prayer - THREE times a day.
Unless you can present 1st century documentation that refutes this - you don't have a Scriptural or historical leg to stand on.

 

[Adonia]

Its a pattern of how to pray, but not a specific one to be prayed!

One again we see how badly you interpret the scriptures. So badly that even when there is something in them that requires no interpretation, you still get it wrong. Tsk, tsk, what are we going to do with you?

 

[Salty]

One again we see how badly you interpret the scriptures. So badly that even when there is something in them that requires no interpretation, you still get it wrong. Tsk, tsk, what are we going to do with you?

Key word is "interpretation"!
Could be you are the one who is getting it wrong.

Remember - debate the subject - NOT the individual

 

[Adonia]

Could be you are the one who is getting it wrong.

No, not according to the long history of the Christianity. This is just another issue whose determination had long been accepted by all of Christendom and suddenly some 1500 years plus down the road one person suddenly comes up with a new take on it.

Remember - debate the subject - NOT the individual

This individual is part of the debate. There is no new determination on this prayer, it is as cut and dried a directive by Jesus as there ever was, thus I am properly calling him out. Have a blessed day.

 

[Van]

Pray like this:

Pray to the Father

and recognize His authority.

Ask for an understanding of His will,

and the willingness to follow.

Ask only for what you need,

and the wisdom to avoid needless desires.

Forgive anyone you think has sinned against you,

and ask for forgiveness for your sins.

Ask for guidance to overcome temptation, and

for insight to keep falsehoods and lies far from you.

(Matt. 6:9-15)​

 

[Yeshua1]

One again we see how badly you interpret the scriptures. So badly that even when there is something in them that requires no interpretation, you still get it wrong. Tsk, tsk, what are we going to do with you?

Jesus warned us against vain repetition in our prayers, as many use that prayer in that fashion!

 

[Salty]

Jesus warned us against vain repetition in our prayers, as many use that prayer in that fashion!

Especially three times a day.

 

[Zenas]

Its a pattern of how to pray, but not a specific one to be prayed!

And you know this how?

 

[Salty]

If I may, I would like to spur off to a different direction....

Often at a public event a clergyman will be asked to pray an invocation.

First I often notice that they will have their "prayer" written out - and all they are doing is reading a "prayer"
Second many will not pray in the name of Jesus Christ. (as they do not want to offend any non-Christians.

What are your thoughts about ic.

For myself, If I am asked to pray at an invocation, I will mention that I always pray in the name of Jesus Christ - if they said I cant, then I respectfully decline. Now, if they ask for me to submit a written copy of my prayer - I will inform them that
I don't read "prayers" - If they indicate that they need to see, what my prayer is - well, they have a choice - either allow me to pray or to
withdraw the invitation. Its up to them.

 

[Yeshua1]

If I may, I would like to spur off to a different direction....

Often at a public event a clergyman will be asked to pray an invocation.

First I often notice that they will have their "prayer" written out - and all they are doing is reading a "prayer"
Second many will not pray in the name of Jesus Christ. (as they do not want to offend any non-Christians.

What are your thoughts about ic.

For myself, If I am asked to pray at an invocation, I will mention that I always pray in the name of Jesus Christ - if they said I cant, then I respectfully decline. Now, if they ask for me to submit a written copy of my prayer - I will inform them that
I don't read "prayers" - If they indicate that they need to see, what my prayer is - well, they have a choice - either allow me to pray or to
withdraw the invitation. Its up to them.

Can you Imagine paul deciding to just bow under the pressure and not mention the name of His Lord?

 

[Van]

Praying in the Name of the Lord means our prayer is in accordance with our understanding of Christ's will for our life, and has nothing to do with adding "magic" words to the end of our prayers.

 

[Salty]

Praying in the Name of the Lord means our prayer is in accordance with our understanding of Christ's will for our life, and has nothing to do with adding "magic" words to the end of our prayers.

You have totally missed the point of my statement.
I am not going to allow someone to tell me what I must say or what I cant say.

 

[Adonia]

Pray like this:

Pray to the Father

and recognize His authority.

Ask for an understanding of His will,

and the willingness to follow.

Ask only for what you need,

and the wisdom to avoid needless desires.

Forgive anyone you think has sinned against you,

and ask for forgiveness for your sins.

Ask for guidance to overcome temptation, and

for insight to keep falsehoods and lies far from you.

(Matt. 6:9-15)​

From which biblical translation did you get this? It looks like you have twisted the words to make the Lords Prayer seen as a template only. The following is the only way I have ever seen the Lords Prayer, not as a template, but a prayer with the words we should actually say.

9 “This, then, is how you should pray:

“‘Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name,
10 your kingdom come,
your will be done
on earth as it is in heaven.
11 Give us today our daily bread
12 And forgive us our debts,
as we also have forgiven our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation
but deliver us from the evil one.

 

[Van]

From which biblical translation did you get this? It looks like you have twisted the words to make the Lords Prayer seen as a template only. The following is the only way I have ever seen the Lords Prayer, not as a template, but a prayer with the words we should actually say.

9 “This, then, is how you should pray:

“‘Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name,
10 your kingdom come,
your will be done
on earth as it is in heaven.
11 Give us today our daily bread
12 And forgive us our debts,
as we also have forgiven our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation
but deliver us from the evil one.

The meaning of both versions is the same. Rote repetition is unbiblical, and advocates twist scripture.

Pray like this:

Pray to the Father
and recognize His authority.
Ask for an understanding of His will,
and the willingness to follow.
Ask only for what you need,
and the wisdom to avoid needless desires.
Forgive anyone you think has sinned against you,
and ask for forgiveness for your sins.
Ask for guidance to overcome temptation, and
for insight to keep falsehoods and lies far from you.

(Matt. 6:9-15)