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Repeating the Lords Prayer
- Thread starter Salty
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I take it you now realize your prior post was a bogus as a three dollar bill. OK
How is God's will done in our lives? By us doing our understanding of God's will.
Your understanding of the prayer, especially as a guide for believers, seems non-existent. It takes prayer, study and meditation to discern as best we can, God's will for our life, and for our willingness to follow.
What did you say in the referenced post (#74)? You are just throwing up a smoke screen.
MarysSon said:
Folks, note that MarysSon did not address the false statement quoted in post 83. I provided the false charge by quoting the false charge, yet MarysSon did not address the false charge.
Here is the false charge: you reject the repetition of the Lord's Prayer as a fervent prayer
Will the smoke screen continue, or will the person making false claims actually admit the mistake? Don't hold your breath.
In post #44 - I gave SEVERAL Biblical examples of repetitious prayer that was pleasing to God.
In post #49 - YOU responded with the following comment:
"Rote repetition is unbiblical, and advocates twist scripture."
SINCE then, I have been trying to get you to explain to me how the Biblical examples I gave you constitute "rote repetition".
You have been running ever since . . .
You have stated: < Fervent prayers to God - as I have proven above are not "vain repetitions".>
but apparently you have not -
They are pleasing to God.
Matt 26:44 - you state "exact same prayer" could be - but Scripture does NOT so state. the exact wording is "and prayed the third time, saying the same words" did he say the exact word - possibly - but we cant say for sure. For example, I could say - "I will drive to the grocery store", the next person I see, I say "I'm going to the grocery store" - the third person I say, "I'm driving to the store"
Luke 18:13 Yes, he did keep beating his chest - but exactly how many times did he say "God be merciful..."
Rev 4:8 Did they say it? yes - but was it a prayer?
Well, since
Nonsense.
The "same" prayer is the SAME prayer.
First of all - Matt. 26:44 states that Jesus prayed the SAME prayer THREE times.
And even if you completely discount the repeated prayer of Zacchaeus in Luke 18:13 - you cannot do the same with Rev. 4:8. It says that they are repeating the SAME thing day and night - in the presence of Almighty GOD. That is absolutely a prayer of worship.
By the way - I gave further examples of repetitious prayer that YOU purposely left out:
Is Psalm 136 promoting “vain repetitions” when it goes on for 26 verses in a row, repeating the exact same prayer, “God's love endures forever”??
Is the Book of Daniel promoting “vain repetitions” as we read the exact same prayer for 32 verses (Dan. 3:56-88), which is “bless the Lord; praise and exalt him above all forever”??
Neither you nor @Van has a Scriptural leg to stand on here.
I don't agree to that.
I gave you several Scriptural examples of repetitious prayer that is pleasing to God - and YOU have been totally unable to dispute it.
That's NOT a point where we would "agree to disagree".
That's a point where YOU either have to come up with a Scriptural refutation - or admit that you're wrong.
I have posted my Scriptural refutation -
If you don't accept my doctrine on this - then as I said
We will have to agree to disagree
and I don't need to admit I am wrong.
So just keep thinking the way you are - if that's what makes you happy
I have the feeling you want the last word. - if you do - fine
And this is where I am signing off
(except for when it would be normal to be closed for length)
If you don't accept my doctrine on this - then as I said
We will have to agree to disagree
and I don't need to admit I am wrong.
So just keep thinking the way you are - if that's what makes you happy
I have the feeling you want the last word. - if you do - fine
And this is where I am signing off
(except for when it would be normal to be closed for length)
Sorry - but you didn't post a Scriptural refutation. You posted YOUR objection.
BIG difference . . .
A Scriptural refutation would be to take ALL of my Scriptural evidence and disprove it using Scripture.
You took a mere TWO verses of the FIVE that I presented and injected your opinion - NOT a Scriptural refutation.
If you cannot refute the verses that I have presented that show that fervent repetitious prayer is pleasing to God and not simply "rote" or "vain" repetition - then you have LOST this debate along with your friend @Van.
This isn't about having the "last word".
It's about having an honest dialogue . . .
Alofa Atu
Well-Known Member
Little Boy/Girl: *internal dialgoue* Where are my beads, I cannot seem to find where I lay them... "Beads... O Beads?!... beads, where are you?" I can't find my... Oh! Here they are! In my pocket... "Praise St. XXXXX..." now where did I put my blue pieta book...
God: *with incalculable, unchanging, eternal love* I would like to spend time with you...
Little Boy/Girl: *frustrated* I am looking for my blue pieta book, please do not bother me, this is important, I must have that book so I can speak to God...
God: What about that Bible over there, under all of the misslettes, have you opened it and seen my words for you today?
Little Boy/Girl: *confused* Today is Thursday, I am not in church, why would I... OH! My blue pieta book, I found it, "Thanks be to St. XXXXX..." now where are all my candles and incenses... I will need those to remember St. XXXXX and St. XXXXX and this deceased and this deceased...
God: Have you not read what Peter hath said by the Holy Spirit and the Prophets, that even King David is not yet ascended into Heaven, is dead and buried and his tomb is still there, or the word of my servant Luke which recorded that Stephen fell asleep, or the word of my servant Paul, that the dead do not rise until the last day, and that they will all sleep until I come for them in that day at the last tump, for I am now preparing a place?
Little Boy/Girl: *irked* Silly, did you not know that God is the God of the living and not the dead... *turns around*, "Ha!, there they are, my candles..." "O, bless you Ma..."
God: Child, I truly Am the God of the living, for if you would but open the pages of My Book where are recorded my words, and see, I said, "For in the resurrection..." and "...as touching the resurrection..."
Little Boy/Girl: *angry* * blustered* *out loud* "Moses, Elijah and Enoch and some others whom you took with you when you where raised are in Heaven!!!" *accidently drops the glass candleholder* *shatters on the floor* NOW SEE WHAT YOU MADE ME DO!!! *exhales* *inhales* *exhales heavily* Now I have to clean this up before I can even begin to talk to God... *woe is me* *searches for a broom* searching, searching, searching, all it seems that I am doing today is searching... searching for this, for that, and I cannot even have time to search for God...
God: Yes, true, they whom you mention, are indeed with me in Heaven, but for Moses and the firstfruits, whom all had fallen on sleep in death, I raised them unto myself in a special resurrection and took them with me at those times, and as for Enoch He daily walked with Me and so I took him personally, and for Elijah I sent a mighty Angel to gather Him and so they never saw death, nor fell on sleep. Child, have ye not read what I said unto Adam, and what ye hear at least once a year in your 'Ash Wednesday', "Remember man that thou art dust and unto dust thou shalt return.", that I gave my breath, and breathed into his nostrils that he would become a living soul, and when returned unto dust, that breath which I gave unto him, is returned unto Me, for it is mine, as I am the only that hath Life within?
Little Boy/Girl: *fuming* *outraged* *takes broom and swings at the air in front of them* *knocks over the bronze statue of Mary* *GASPS*!!!!! *drops broom and reaches down to the image and gently lifts it back up and puts it back onto the pedestal* *strokes it* "You are ok Mary, I did not mean it." *Kisses her cold metal cheek* "To make reparations for damaging you I will confess to my priest and ask for severe penance today by phone!, let me go call him right now..." *dials* "Father, you will not believe what I did today... father, this and this... father, o father this Devil kept bothering me today and telling me things, will you do your 'spiritual exercises' and make it go away?... O thank you, father..." *hangs up, glad that is done* *whew* what a load off of my heart... now, time to pray...
God: Why do you call that person 'father' on earth, did you not know of your Father who actually is in Heaven who always seeth you? I AM even here to help you child, even as I Jesus girded myself with a towel and washed the disciples feet, even as I came down from above to serve, why did you not ask me? Did you not know that I minister there for you before the Father in the Heavenly Sanctuary, the True Tabernacle which I pitched and not man, even as I AM your Great High Priest, that I bore all the sin, sickness and suffering of all of humanity and who AM touched with the feeling of your infirmities?
Little Boy/Girl: *exasperated* Who are you supposed to be? I do not know your voice, it is unfamiliar... anyways I got what I need right here, my specially blessed Rosary beads from Fatima, my blue pieta book from Rome signed by the Cardinal, and my candles, all of which are made with truly miraculous ingredients, from several shrines around the globe where Mary has appeared...
God: My sheep know my voice, and they know me... Did you want to come to know me right now, I will spend the rest of the day with you...
Little Boy/Girl: *becoming worn out, tired and shakes head* I cannot right now, I am busy trying to pray to God, you sound interesting, but how do I know you are not another Devil sent from Satan to distract me from praying, please come back another time, I am busy repeating these words, "Our Father who art in Heaven..." "Hail Mary..." "Hail Mary..." "Hail Mary..." "Glory Be..." "Our Father..." "Hail Mary..." Hail Mary..." "Hail Mary..." "Hail Mary..." "Hail Mary..." Hail Mary..." "Hail Mary..." "Hail Mary..." "Hail Mary..." "Hail Mary..." "Glory Be..." "Our Father..." ...
God: Will you not speak unto me?...
Little Boy/Girl: *agitated, tries to ignore, and speaks a little louder*... "...Glory Be..." one decade done, four more to complete one whole, and then around again two more times... "Our Father..." "Hail Mary..." "Hail Mary..." "Hail Mary..." "Glory Be..."
God: Do you not want to speak with me as unto a friend? Do you speak unto your friends that way? Counting, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7... and starting over when they desire to share and fellowship with you?
Little Boy/Girl: *sighs, tries to mentally zone out everything into blackness*... "...who art in heaven..." Major Bead "...Mary...", 1 Bead "...Mary...", 2 Bead "...Mary...", 3 Bead "...Mary...", 4 Bead "...Mary...", 5 Bead "...Mary...", 6 Bead "...Mary...", 7 Bead "...Mary...", 8 Bead "...Mary...", 9 Bead "...Mary...", 10 Bead, "Glory Be..."
God: Not to bother you too much, but may I ask you another question?
Little Boy/Girl: *annoyed, tries breath techniques acquired of the monks of asia*... "...in heaven..." "...Mary..." "...Mary..." "...Mary..." "...Be..."
God: Do you want me to leave you alone?
Little Boy/Girl: *fed up, disregards* 3 Bead, ... 4 Bead, ... 5 Bead, ... 6 Bead, ...
God: Ok, child, I will leave you alone today, though it break my heart and tears run down my cheeks, that my child will not hear or understand my voice. O what sadness, my poor poor child, rocks back and forth, back and forth, clinging to their beads, rubbing them, counting them 1, 2, 3... I can heal you child, if you will but let me, for I cannot, in my love, force it upon you... I love you, I Jesus, died for you, for that is how much I love you...
Little Boy/Girl: *oblivious* ... 7 Bead, ... 8 Bead, ... 9 Bead, ... almost done praying today, wow how refreshing to be rid of that pesky spirit asking all those nagging questions, and I can now spend time with God in peace and quiet, for today I will begin to memorize my new pieta book, they just updated it, that way I will always have that with me...
God: My Word is there on the table, and I love you, and I change not...
Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
Walpole
Well-Known Member
FYI, in the Lukan account, Jesus is asked by His disciples to teach them to pray. He replies, "When ye pray, SAY, Our Father which art in heaven..."
Luke 11:1-2 ---> And it came to pass, that, as he was praying in a certain place, when he ceased, one of his disciples said unto him, "Lord, teach us to pray, as John also taught his disciples." And he said unto them, "When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth."
Walpole
Well-Known Member
What Scripture says ---> "And he left them, and went away again, and prayed the third time, saying the same words." (Matthew 26:44)
What Scripture DOES NOT SAY ---> "And he left them, and went away again, and prayed the third time, POSSIBLY saying the same words.
Luke 18:1-8 Jesus gives a parable about how we ought to pray. The unjust judge is literally worn down by the widow's persistent and repeated plea.
Revelation 4:8 ---> Never ceasing to say the sanctus to "the Lord God Almighty"
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Sir, I am guessing your understanding is that Jesus was saying parrot these the exact words. So apparently we should be speaking Greek without understanding what the words mean. Sorry but I think that view is nonsense. We should have the message and meaning of Jesus in our minds and hearts, IMHO.
Thank you for that textbook example o <snip> anti-Catholic hatred.
You couldn't have posted a better example.
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Alofa Atu
Well-Known Member
Again, notice, the material against Catholicism (theology, faith/practice), but the appeal and love to the Catholic (person).
Nobody can read YOUR post #94 and glean any "love" to Catholics.
It is a complete and total anti-Catholic assault that is indicative of the SDA sect.
You're just doing what you were indoctrinated to do in the materials written by your guru E.G. White.
The hatred comes through as clear as you <snip> of ALL things Catholic . . .
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