Repentance, Faith, and Lordship salvation

[Judith]

I was not raised in evangelical circles. I was raised in a church in which I never heard the gospel. At the age of 20, the first time I heard the gospel presented to me I got saved. In faith I trusted Christ as my Savior. I prayed. I received Him as my Savior, and he forgave my sins and gave me the gift of eternal life. (John 1:12; 1John 5:11-13)
--According to you I am not saved.

I never repented from all my sins. At the age of 20 I would never be able to remember all my sins, much less repent of them. The Bible says:
"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved."
When a person believes, his heart is changed. Repentance is a part of believing. Repenting in and of itself is works. Salvation is by grace through faith and that not of yourself, not of works.
I trusted Christ as my Savior, didn't go through a theology book to learn various theological definitions of repentance, Lordship salvation, etc.
No, Christ saved me by His grace. I accepted his free gift by faith. The gospel is really very simple. But if you don't accept my testimony I am fine with that.

I didn't know what Acts 20:21 said. I didn't even know there was a Book of Acts. I was biblically illiterate. I put my faith in Christ. It is Christ that saves, not Bible knowledge. Listing your sin and turning from each one is works. I don't have a works based salvation. My faith is in the sacrifice of Christ and the penalty that he paid for me. I accepted that payment by faith.

My life began to change slowly after I was saved. That is a process called "sanctification." There was no immediate change at salvation, that I could see. I wasn't in the habit of "practicing sin," as a lifestyle. Of course, many of the unsaved live more righteously than many of the saved, and put believers to shame.

Not true. I knew I needed a Savior. I was a sinner on my way to hell. Christ paid the penalty for my sin. I trusted him as my Savior. I was saved.
But you want to take that away from me and tell me I am not saved??
Hogwash! Your theology is messed up.
It sounds to me like you believe in a works based salvation.

Repentance does not equal faith. Get a hold of a good Bible dictionary.

You are very confused. Salvation is not a process. It is an event.

I guess I am not saved then. You really believe that?


Christ is Lord whether you confess him as Lord or not. Christ is Lord even if you act as Hitler or Stalin. There is nothing that you can do to dethrone Christ. He is Lord; Creator of all; sustainer of all. What makes you think that you can MAKE Christ, command Him to do anything. You are a puny little creation of him. He is your Creator. You cannot command or make Christ to do anything. He already is Lord!! Learn that!
The question is: Will you (as Saul did), submit to Him as Lord?

He already is Lord whether you like it or not. Today is the day of grace. Today he offers to be your Savior. Tomorrow may be too late. Now is the day of salvation. If people do not accept him as Savior now, it may be too late.

2 Corinthians 6:2 (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)

Repentance is the flip side of faith. When one puts genuine faith in Christ, their life changes so that they have repented already. The repentance is a fruit of their salvation, not a condition. Salvation is not by works, as you described. It is by faith and faith alone. You don't believe in sola fide??

Like I said, no one gets saved by accepting Jesus as Savior Unless we come to repentance toward God and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ (acts 20:21) there is no salvation. If a person is not coming accepting the Lordship of Jesus they do not get saved.

 

[Judith]

I knew so little when I first met my Savior.
I recognized the darkness of my deeds and acknowledged Someone who had the power to save me from them. I believed he could do it. I turned from darkness to light.
As I grew in faith, I learned more about this Person, my Lord.

Lordship Salvation places a burden upon the unsaved that they need not bear until after they have crossed the line from darkness to light.

Rob

Lordship salvation means we surrender to God through Jesus as Lord. Acts (20:21)

 

[Judith]

First off, you're correct that Romans 10:9-10. It's not translated right into English. After that statement, your understanding ran off the rails. Interesting

And you need to read John 8:24, where Jesus said "unless ___ _______ _ __ __, you will die in your sins"

He never made any mention of your lordship nonsense. He casts more light in verse 28


It would realm help matters if you actually studied the scriptures instead of being led by your vain philosophy

John 8:24 does not say to accept Him as Savior. He is Lord and it takes repentance toward God and faith in the Lord, (not Savior) Jesus Christ. (Acts 20:21) People who do receive Him as Lord do not get saved.

 

[Judith]

Again, the scriptures teach to us though that ALL who call upon name of Jesus will get saved, and that God is the One who made Him Lord over us, not us having to "surrender and repent" of all of our sins in order to have real salvation!

Salvation happens the moment a sinner receives jesus as their Saviour, God installs him also as the lord over them, and then starts the life long process of becoming conformed into image of Jesus...

believe that those holding to LS do have a sincere motive, as desiring to see real conversions, but have over reac ted and gone beyond what the scriptures teach us!

Yes as long as the call is in repentance troward God and faith in the Lord, (not Savior) Jesus Christ. Acts 20:21. If a person does not want His Lordship they do not get His saving grace.

 

[Judith]

How can you know Him as Lord before you know Him? And you cannot Know Him until He saves you!



The NASB translated Romans 10:9 as follows: that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved;

I don't see how you get a works salvation out of the passage. Faith is an essential aspect of Salvation. I believe that Faith is the Gift of God at regeneration but Scripture is abundantly clear that we must exercise that Faith. That as I said before is Conversion!


Judith, Judith, Judith, now you are getting ridiculous when you say the above.

Have you ever said a silent prayer.? Did God hear you?

I would say that 90% of my prayers are silent and God hears everyone of them. And when I am unable to pray the Holy Spirit makes intercession for me.

OldRegular, OldRegular, OldRegular
Show me in scripture where God accepts silent prayers. If we do not receive Jesus for who He is we do not get saved and He is Lord. Acts 20:21

 

[JamesL]

John 8:24 does not say to accept Him as Savior. He is Lord and it takes repentance toward God and faith in the Lord, (not Savior) Jesus Christ. (Acts 20:21) People who do receive Him as Lord do not get saved.

Right, John 8:24 says nothing about "accepting". Neither does any other bible verse. That's not my point.. Jesus said "unless you believe I am He you will die in your sins.

Then he said in verse 28 "When I Am Lifted Up you will know that i am He."

Lifted up, Judith. The suffering Servant of Isaiah 53. The One who would SAVE His people from their sins. The One who provided REDEMPTION in His blood.

How in the world do you have faith is someone as Lord? That doesn't require faith, that takes works. MacArthur style heretical faith. One which poisons the gospel with human effort

 

[moral necessity]

http://www.amazon.com/dp/1606083686/?tag=baptis04-20

http://wscal.edu/resource-center/resource/the-lordship-controversy


The first is a link to the book from the early '90s by Michael Horton and others addressing their concerns with John MacArthur's views.

The second is a 30 minute audio with Horton giving a summary of the topic.


Both are worth consideration regarding the issue, imo.



This article is a valid summary of some of the history that eventually led to the controversy, giving some background to what Lordship Theology would eventually respond to. Some of the players at hand may sound familiar...
http://www.etsjets.org/files/JETS-PDFs/40/40-2/40-2-pp241-258_JETS.pdf


Blessings and prayers!

 

[OldRegular]

I believe in Lordship Salvation as was defined by MacArthur in the following. In the interests of brevity I have deleted his remarks on "easy believes"!

First, Scripture teaches that the gospel calls sinners to faith joined in oneness with repentance (Acts 2:38; 17:30; 20:21; 2 Pet. 3:9). Repentance is a turning from sin (Acts 3:19; Luke 24:47) that consists not of a human work but of a divinely bestowed grace (Acts 11:18; 2 Tim. 2:25). It is a change of heart, but genuine repentance will effect a change of behavior as well (Luke 3:8; Acts 26:18-20).

Second, Scripture teaches that salvation is all God's work. Those who believe are saved utterly apart from any effort on their own (Titus 3:5). Even faith is a gift of God, not a work of man (Eph. 2:1-5,8). Real faith therefore cannot be defective or short-lived but endures forever (Phil. 1:6; cf. Heb. 11).

Third, Scripture teaches that the object of faith is Christ Himself, not a creed or a promise (John 3:16). Faith therefore involves personal commitment to Christ (2 Cor. 5:15). In other words, all true believers follow Jesus (John 10:27-28). I

Fourth, Scripture teaches that real faith inevitably produces a changed life (2 Cor. 5:17). Salvation includes a transformation of the inner person (Gal. 2:20). The nature of the Christian is new and different (Rom. 6:6). The unbroken pattern of sin and enmity with God will not continue when a person is born again (1 John 3:9-10). Those with genuine faith follow Christ (John 10:27), love their brothers (1 John 3:14), obey God's commandments (1 John 2:3; John 15:14), do the will of God (Matt. 12:50), abide in God's Word (John 8:31), keep God's Word (John 17:6), do good works (Eph. 2:10), and continue in the faith (Col. 1:21-23; Heb. 3:14).

Fifth, Scripture teaches that God's gift of eternal life includes all that pertains to life and godliness (2 Pet. 1:3; Rom. 8:32), not just a ticket to heaven.

Sixth, Scripture teaches that Jesus is Lord of all, and the faith He demands involves unconditional surrender (Rom. 6:17-18; 10:9-10). In other words, Christ does not bestow eternal life on those whose hearts remain set against Him (James 4:6). Surrender to Jesus' lordship is not an addendum to the biblical terms of salvation; the summons to submission is at the heart of the gospel invitation throughout Scripture.

Seventh, Scripture teaches that those who truly believe will love Christ (1 Pet. 1:8-9; Rom. 8:28-30; 1 Cor. 16:22). They will therefore long to obey Him (John 14:15, 23).

Eighth, Scripture teaches that behavior is an important test of faith. Obedience is evidence that one's faith is real (1 John 2:3). On the other hand, the person who remains utterly unwilling to obey Christ does not evidence true faith (1 John 2:4).

Ninth, Scripture teaches that genuine believers may stumble and fall, but they will persevere in the faith (1 Cor. 1:8). Those who later turn completely away from the Lord show that they were never truly born again (1 John 2:19).

http://www.gty.org/resources/articles/A114/An-Introduction-to-Lordship-Salvation

However, how can you know Jesus Christ as Lord before you know Him? And you cannot Know Him until He saves you?

Without getting into an argument related to a doctrine of Salvation Scripture tells us in John 3:16:

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

And then there are these:

Galatians 3:26. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Acts 13:46-48
46. Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.
47. For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.
48. And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

1 Corinthians 12:3. Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

 

[DHK]

Like I said, no one gets saved by accepting Jesus as Savior Unless we come to repentance toward God and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ (acts 20:21) there is no salvation. If a person is not coming accepting the Lordship of Jesus they do not get saved.

That is what you believe. Rather that is your opinion which contradicts the testimony of many. Lordship salvation has zip to do with salvation, and was unheard of until the the last couple of decades. It is a novel doctrine that has recently stirred up controversy.
Please learn that Christ is Lord. You can't make him Lord of anything including yourself. He is Lord whether you like it or not.
That puts the current teaching of Lordship salvation in the category of erroneous doctrine.

 

[Deacon]

Lordship salvation means we surrender to God through Jesus as Lord. Acts (20:21)

Salvation occurs when we surrender to God through Jesus.

I've used this quote before:

[G]reat essential agreement exists between proponents and opponents of lordship salvation. Both sides agree that regeneration, or the impartation of eternal life by the Holy Spirit to a sinner, is required for salvation. Both sides agree that regeneration produces a positional change: a Father-child relationship is established between God and the believing sinner. Both sides also agree that regeneration produces a constitutional change: a person receives the Holy Spirit and eternal life, which is God’s quality of life placed within his soul. This constitutional change provides the possibility and the power for a superb transformation of character and conduct. Both sides agree that such transformation is expected, desired, demanded, and possible for the believer. Both sides also agree that Christians can sin, and sin severely.
Both sides agree that sin in a believer is serious and brings on him or her the convicting work of the Holy Spirit and should result in confrontation and discipline by the church. And both sides agree that such disobedience can last for some period of time in a believer.… The truth is, lordship salvation does not teach that every professing Christian who sins is not a true believer. Likewise, free grace teachers do not affirm the salvation of everyone who claims to be a Christian.
Undoubtedly, much of Christian history has taught that regeneration will produce some outward and visible change and that no change whatsoever may be evidence of a lack of true regeneration. But free grace teachers teach the same thing. The points of disagreement go back to the nature of faith and assurance. What the free grace position simply will not allow is that the change produced by regeneration is the grounds of or the evidence for assurance of genuine salvation.
T. G. Lewellen, “Has Lordship Salvation Been Taught throughout Church History?” Bibliotheca Sacra 147 (January–March 1990), 65.

God sees Christ when he looks at a believer. This means I'm free from the burden and curse of the law. We are free from having to obey in order to obtain God's favor or as a way to earn something from him - Christ did it all, I've been approved through Christ's completed work.

My obedience then flows from position he has placed me in, as one who has been declared righteous, as one who is kept and has been delivered from darkness, as a child of God, as adopted into his family.

Lordship Salvation demands that a believer must show works in order to prove their position in Christ - it is the primary evidence of salvation.

Rob

 

[OldRegular]

OldRegular, OldRegular, OldRegular
Show me in scripture where God accepts silent prayers.

You show me in Scripture where He does not accept silent prayers.

I will show you where He does.

1 Thessalonians 5:17, 18, NASB
17. Pray without ceasing.
18. In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.

Psalms 94:11, NASB The LORD knows the thoughts of man, That they are a mere breath.

Psalms 139:2, NASB Thou dost know when I sit down and when I rise up; Thou dost understand my thought from afar.

Psalms 139:23, NASB, Search me, O God, and know my heart; Try me and know my anxious thoughts;

1 Samuel 1:12-15, NASB
12. Now it came about, as she continued praying before the LORD, that Eli was watching her mouth.
13. As for Hannah, she was speaking in her heart, only her lips were moving, but her voice was not heard. So Eli thought she was drunk.
14. Then Eli said to her, “How long will you make yourself drunk? Put away your wine from you.”
15. But Hannah answered and said, “No, my lord, I am a woman oppressed in spirit; I have drunk neither wine nor strong drink, but I have poured out my soul before the LORD.

If we do not receive Jesus for who He is we do not get saved and He is Lord. Acts 20:21

I am not in favor of young children joining the Church for a number of reasons. I suspect that a majority on this BB made a profession of Faith as a child. I would also bet that they had no idea of the Lordship of Jesus Christ. Where do you fit in Judith?

Then answer the following question.

Originally Posted by OldRegular
How can you know Him as Lord before you know Him? And you cannot Know Him until He saves you!

I have always believed that Conversion requires surrender to God. An example of this, at least as far as I am concerned, is shown in the following Scripture.

Luke 18:9-13, KJV
9. And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
10. Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
11. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
13. And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14. I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

The publican went to his house Justified. No mention of the Lordship of Jesus Christ.

 

[timf]

Repentance, Faith, and Lordship salvation

There are two views of salvation that seem in opposition. The first sees salvation as something accessible, so easy even a child or the old and infirm can do it, trusting in Jesus. These people see painting salvation as something rigorous may leave people less nimble, ardent, or skilled thinking they cannot approach Jesus.

The second group have those who see danger in a mistaken assumption of salvation. They stress Lordship, really repenting, and producing fruit as evidence of salvation status. Their view is also somewhat justified.

What these two views have in common is that they can be seen to place insufficient emphasis of God.

We know that God works in people to bring them to Jesus.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

We can surmise that the means that God uses to draw people to Jesus is a hunger for truth such that this hunger is only satisfied in him who is truth.

John 18:37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

There have been and continue to be many "experts" who declare they have plumbed the mysteries of this calling and saving such that they can declare the criteria and process that must be followed for salvation. While often well intention and with sincere concern, these descriptions often cause as much trouble as they intend to prevent.

In Acts we have a description of people being told that they had put to death the Messiah a few weeks earlier. As they were convinced that this is what they had done they were mortified. They want to know what they should do and Peter tells them several things.

Acts 2:36-38 Assuredly therefore, let the whole house of Israel be knowing that God made Him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified. Now, having heard this, they were stung to the heart with poignant sorrow. And they said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, What shall we do, men, brothers? And Peter said to them, Have a change of mind, that change of mind being accompanied by abhorrence of and sorrow for your deed, and let each one of you be baptized upon the ground of your confession of belief in the sum total of all that Jesus Christ is in His glorious Person, this baptismal testimony being in relation to the fact that your sins have been put away, and you shall receive the gratuitous gift of the Holy Spirit, - Weust

People will argue forever about where they see salvation occurring in these verses. I would suggest that the identification of the exact point and seeing the precise process is not as important as many people think. In fact, you could make a case that a preoccupation with the details of this process often becomes a stumbling block.

There is a subject of importance that could be called "assurance of salvation". Those who see a precise understanding of salvation often offer assurance based on the process that they have come to understand. Asking Jesus into your heart, being baptized, church membership, really repenting, and making Jesus Lord of your life have all been offered as measurement criteria to determine salvation.

There is an incident in the Corinthian church were Paul talks about what to do with someone who is called "brother" but whose actions deny his faith.

1 Corinthians 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

No instruction is given to try to measure the man's true salvation status. Only his behavior is to be measured.

If a brother or sister in Christ wants assurance of their own salvation, I can point them to verses about drawing nearer to Jesus so that they can have assurance directly from him.

James 4:8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

Romans 12:1-2 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

 

[JamesL]

Timf, slight wrinkle in your proposal:

There wasn't anyone saved in Acts 2. They were already "saved" in the sense of being justified, prior to that day. They were OT believers who had their own Messiah crucified.

And Peter never promised them salvation, or election, or justification, or anything of the sort. He promised them the gift of the Holy Spirit.

 

[DHK]

Timf, slight wrinkle in your proposal:

There wasn't anyone saved in Acts 2. They were already "saved" in the sense of being justified, prior to that day. They were OT believers who had their own Messiah crucified.

And Peter never promised them salvation, or election, or justification, or anything of the sort. He promised them the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Acts 2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

 

[The Biblicist]

Timf, slight wrinkle in your proposal:

There wasn't anyone saved in Acts 2. They were already "saved" in the sense of being justified, prior to that day. They were OT believers who had their own Messiah crucified.

And Peter never promised them salvation, or election, or justification, or anything of the sort. He promised them the gift of the Holy Spirit.

No, he promised the gifts of the Spirit conditioned upon repentance, faith and water baptism (Acts 2:38-40). If you will look at the beginning of Peter's sermon it is introduced by asking what was this tongue speaking. He is not promising the PERSON of the Spirit but the POWER manifested in gifts of the Spirit that attended the baptism of the INSTITUTIONAL "house of God" as promised.

 

[The Biblicist]

Repentance, Faith, and Lordship salvation

There are two views of salvation that seem in opposition. The first sees salvation as something accessible, so easy even a child or the old and infirm can do it, trusting in Jesus. These people see painting salvation as something rigorous may leave people less nimble, ardent, or skilled thinking they cannot approach Jesus.

The second group have those who see danger in a mistaken assumption of salvation. They stress Lordship, really repenting, and producing fruit as evidence of salvation status. Their view is also somewhat justified.

What these two views have in common is that they can be seen to place insufficient emphasis of God.

We know that God works in people to bring them to Jesus.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

We can surmise that the means that God uses to draw people to Jesus is a hunger for truth such that this hunger is only satisfied in him who is truth.

John 18:37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

There have been and continue to be many "experts" who declare they have plumbed the mysteries of this calling and saving such that they can declare the criteria and process that must be followed for salvation. While often well intention and with sincere concern, these descriptions often cause as much trouble as they intend to prevent.

In Acts we have a description of people being told that they had put to death the Messiah a few weeks earlier. As they were convinced that this is what they had done they were mortified. They want to know what they should do and Peter tells them several things.

Acts 2:36-38 Assuredly therefore, let the whole house of Israel be knowing that God made Him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified. Now, having heard this, they were stung to the heart with poignant sorrow. And they said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, What shall we do, men, brothers? And Peter said to them, Have a change of mind, that change of mind being accompanied by abhorrence of and sorrow for your deed, and let each one of you be baptized upon the ground of your confession of belief in the sum total of all that Jesus Christ is in His glorious Person, this baptismal testimony being in relation to the fact that your sins have been put away, and you shall receive the gratuitous gift of the Holy Spirit, - Weust

People will argue forever about where they see salvation occurring in these verses. I would suggest that the identification of the exact point and seeing the precise process is not as important as many people think. In fact, you could make a case that a preoccupation with the details of this process often becomes a stumbling block.

There is a subject of importance that could be called "assurance of salvation". Those who see a precise understanding of salvation often offer assurance based on the process that they have come to understand. Asking Jesus into your heart, being baptized, church membership, really repenting, and making Jesus Lord of your life have all been offered as measurement criteria to determine salvation.

There is an incident in the Corinthian church were Paul talks about what to do with someone who is called "brother" but whose actions deny his faith.

1 Corinthians 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

No instruction is given to try to measure the man's true salvation status. Only his behavior is to be measured.

If a brother or sister in Christ wants assurance of their own salvation, I can point them to verses about drawing nearer to Jesus so that they can have assurance directly from him.

James 4:8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

Romans 12:1-2 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

The Scriptures teach neither! Salvation is simplistic gospel repentance and faith. The repentance is merely a change of unbelief to belief in the gospel, a change of affections from hatred of light to embracing the light of the gospel and change of resistance by the will to submission by the will to the call of the gospel to yeild (Jn. 3:16-21).

 

[Judith]

You show me in Scripture where He does not accept silent prayers.

I will show you where He does.

1 Thessalonians 5:17, 18, NASB
17. Pray without ceasing.
18. In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.

Psalms 94:11, NASB The LORD knows the thoughts of man, That they are a mere breath.

Psalms 139:2, NASB Thou dost know when I sit down and when I rise up; Thou dost understand my thought from afar.

Psalms 139:23, NASB, Search me, O God, and know my heart; Try me and know my anxious thoughts;

1 Samuel 1:12-15, NASB
12. Now it came about, as she continued praying before the LORD, that Eli was watching her mouth.
13. As for Hannah, she was speaking in her heart, only her lips were moving, but her voice was not heard. So Eli thought she was drunk.
14. Then Eli said to her, “How long will you make yourself drunk? Put away your wine from you.”
15. But Hannah answered and said, “No, my lord, I am a woman oppressed in spirit; I have drunk neither wine nor strong drink, but I have poured out my soul before the LORD.




I am not in favor of young children joining the Church for a number of reasons. I suspect that a majority on this BB made a profession of Faith as a child. I would also bet that they had no idea of the Lordship of Jesus Christ. Where do you fit in Judith?

Then answer the following question.



I have always believed that Conversion requires surrender to God. An example of this, at least as far as I am concerned, is shown in the following Scripture.

Luke 18:9-13, KJV
9. And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
10. Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
11. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
13. And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14. I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

The publican went to his house Justified. No mention of the Lordship of Jesus Christ.

Those passages do not teach silent prayer. If jesus is not receivesd as Lord He is not received.

 

[Judith]

I am of the conclussion that many will argue themselves right into hell. :tear:

 

[DHK]

I am of the conclussion that many will argue themselves right into hell. :tear:

You have the right to your opinion for what it is worth.
The Scriptures teach against much of what you have posted here.

 

[OldRegular]

Those passages do not teach silent prayer. If jesus is not receivesd as Lord He is not received.

Originally Posted by Judith
OldRegular, OldRegular, OldRegular
Show me in scripture where God accepts silent prayers.

You show me in Scripture where He does not accept silent prayers.

I will show you where He does.

1 Thessalonians 5:17, 18, NASB
17. Pray without ceasing.
18. In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.

Psalms 94:11, NASB The LORD knows the thoughts of man, That they are a mere breath.

Psalms 139:2, NASB Thou dost know when I sit down and when I rise up; Thou dost understand my thought from afar.

Psalms 139:23, NASB, Search me, O God, and know my heart; Try me and know my anxious thoughts;

I say the passages in the above quote teach silent prayer since they teach that God knows our thoughts. Therefore, if we are praying silently God knows. To deny this is simply to deny Scripture!

***************************************************************

In the following passage presented initially with the above Scripture Hannah was praying silently. As is the case with many people their lips move when speaking silently, often some peoples lips move when they read. Eli thought Hannah was drunk but learned otherwise. Apparently Eli is much wiser than you, Ms. Judith. You are deliberately denying Scripture that proves you wrong.

1 Samuel 1:12-15, NASB
12. Now it came about, as she continued praying before the LORD, that Eli was watching her mouth.
13. As for Hannah, she was speaking in her heart, only her lips were moving, but her voice was not heard. So Eli thought she was drunk.
14. Then Eli said to her, “How long will you make yourself drunk? Put away your wine from you.”
15. But Hannah answered and said, “No, my lord, I am a woman oppressed in spirit; I have drunk neither wine nor strong drink, but I have poured out my soul before the LORD.

Continuing the Scripture lesson, Judith, what was Hannah asking God for in her prayer. The Scripture preceding the above reveals this to you, should you care to learn!

1 Samuel 1:9-11, KJV
9. So Hannah rose up after they had eaten in Shiloh, and after they had drunk. Now Eli the priest sat upon a seat by a post of the temple of the LORD.
10. And she was in bitterness of soul, and prayed unto the LORD, and wept sore.
11. And she vowed a vow, and said, O LORD of hosts, if thou wilt indeed look on the affliction of thine handmaid, and remember me, and not forget thine handmaid, but wilt give unto thine handmaid a man child, then I will give him unto the LORD all the days of his life, and there shall no razor come upon his head.

Was Hannah's silent prayer answered?

1 Samuel 1:16-20, KJV
16. Count not thine handmaid for a daughter of Belial: for out of the abundance of my complaint and grief have I spoken hitherto.
17. Then Eli answered and said, Go in peace: and the God of Israel grant thee thy petition that thou hast asked of him.
18. And she said, Let thine handmaid find grace in thy sight. So the woman went her way, and did eat, and her countenance was no more sad.
19. And they rose up in the morning early, and worshipped before the LORD, and returned, and came to their house to Ramah: and Elkanah knew Hannah his wife; and the LORD remembered her.
20. Wherefore it came to pass, when the time was come about after Hannah had conceived, that she bare a son, and called his name Samuel, saying, Because I have asked him of the LORD.

So you see Ms. Judith you are incorrect. God not only heard Hannah's silent prayer but God answered Hannah's silent prayer. Your pride keeps you from admitting that you are wrong, and pride can be sinful, Ms. Judith!

Now let us consider the remainder of my response which you kissed off with the following.

Those passages do not teach silent prayer. If jesus is not receivesd as Lord He is not received.

Originally Posted by Judith
If we do not receive Jesus for who He is we do not get saved and He is Lord. Acts 20:21

I am not in favor of young children joining the Church for a number of reasons. I suspect that a majority on this BB made a profession of Faith as a child. I would also bet that they had no idea of the Lordship of Jesus Christ. Where do you fit in Judith?

Then answer the following question.

Originally Posted by OldRegular
How can you know Him as Lord before you know Him? And you cannot Know Him until He saves you!

I have always believed that Conversion requires surrender to God. An example of this, at least as far as I am concerned, is shown in the following Scripture.

Luke 18:9-13, KJV
9. And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
10. Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
11. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
13. And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14. I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

The publican went to his house Justified. No mention of the Lordship of Jesus Christ.

In the above quote I stated my belief about young people joining the Church and ask a question of you. A question you did not answer.

Originally Posted by OldRegular
I am not in favor of young children joining the Church for a number of reasons. I suspect that a majority on this BB made a profession of Faith as a child. I would also bet that they had no idea of the Lordship of Jesus Christ. Where do you fit in Judith?

I must get a little personal here Ms. Judith but I believe it is justified in light of your remarks about Lordship Salvation. How old were you when you first made a profession of Faith?

I asked you another question on more than one occasion which you will not answer. I ask it again!

Originally Posted by OldRegular
How can you know Him as Lord before you know Him? And you cannot Know Him until He saves you!

So tells us about your Conversion experience Ms. Judith and perhaps you will prove your point.

Respectfully,
OldRegular