Repentance

[Moriah]

It is fools that reject knowledge.
The Bible was not written in English.
We don't carry the mentality: "If the KJV was good enough for Paul then it is good enough for me."
The NT was written in Greek, and therefore we gain our definitions from the Greek words used.

In the post above some of the definitions of those words were posted. Here is one of them posted by Steadfast Fred:

It is close to the same as I gave you. But you don't want to hear the truth do you. You reject truth.

Can you prove that? Or is it slander? Why don't you look up John Calvin's commentaries and see. His commentaries are on the internet. Look up what he says on John 3:16.

Who says that? I don't know of anyone. More slander.

Sorrow for sin is not repentance. But you cannot be taught. You won't even listen to a dictionary.

I gave you the definition of the English word repent and you still deny it means what it means. The English Bibles we have been translated by many translators, and not just one person, as the KJV; however, you want to question all the many translators and tell us no they did not understand the English word ‘repent.’ You also do not have the original Greek transcripts in front of you; you are translating English back to Greek. Repent means to repent, just as the English dictionary says.
As for John Calvin being the one to say repentance is about going from unbelief to belief in God…I gave the Website to show you. Stop threatening slander to everyone who debates you. This is supposed to be a safe Christian place for all to discuss their beliefs.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

According to the definitions I gave, a godly sorrow for sin is part of repentance.

If one does not have a godly sorrow for sin, one has not repented with a real repentance.

Why only quote part of the definition?

 

[Fred's Wife]

Notice that the verse you quoted deals with repentance toward God and faith toward Jesus Christ.
But "Godly sorrow" only comes from a passage in 2Cor.7 which is written to Christians. The unsaved cannot have Godly sorrow. If we change your definition just a little you have one of the most accurate definitions of repentance yet posted.

Repentance concerns itself with God. It means to change one's mind and attitude toward God, to realize the fact that one has sinned against Him. It is the product of the Word of God. Repentance results in a change in one's actions.
--That is a good definition of what repentance is.
It is a change in one's mind and attitude toward God. Once the mind was rebellious in his attitude toward God. Then a change occurred (salvation). Now the mind is submissive in his attitude toward God. There has been a change--a 180 degree turn about. Once the sinner was bound to hell, now he is a saint bound to heaven. Once he was in a state of rebellion to God; now he is in a state of submission to God. That is repentance.

Please show me where in the Bible it states that the unsaved cannot have godly sorrow? How can one be saved without godly sorrow? A worldly sorrow will not lead to a "turning from sin as a lifestyle and turning to God in repentance and faith in Christ". Worldly sorrow is simply remorse. Anybody can have worldly sorrow, but only a responsive sinner, who has been convicted by the Holy Spirit of God of his sin and rebellion, can have godly sorrow which leads to biblical repentance (Romans 10:17). Repentance is not simply a change of mind from unbelief to belief. The sinner must repent about his disobedience toward God and exercise faith in the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ for his sin.

"To repent literally means to have a change of mind or spirit toward God and toward sin. It means to turn from your sins, earnestly, with all your heart, and trust in Jesus Christ to save you. You can see, then, how the man who believes in Christ repents and the man who repents believes in Christ. The jailer repented when he turned from sin to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ" (John R. Rice, What Must I Do to Be Saved?, 1940).

"Shallow preaching that does not grapple with the terrible fact of man's sinfulness and guilt, calling on 'all men everywhere to repent,' results in shallow conversions; and so we have a myriad of glib-tongued professors today who give no evidence of regeneration whatever. Prating of salvation by grace, they manifest no grace in their lives. Loudly declaring they are justified by faith alone, they fail to remember that 'faith without works is dead'; and that justification by works before men is not to be ignored as though it were in contradiction to justification by faith before God. ... To repent is to change one's attitude toward self, toward sin, toward God, toward Christ. ... So to face these tremendous facts is to change one's mind completely, so that the pleasure lover sees and confesses the folly of his empty life; the self-indulgent learns to hate the passions that express the corruption of his nature; the self-righteous sees himself a condemned sinner in the eyes of a holy God; the man who has been hiding from God seeks to find a hiding place in Him; the Christ-rejector realizes and owns his need of life and salvation" (Harry Ironside, Except Ye Repent, 1937).

 

[steaver]

The English Bibles we have been translated by many translators, and not just one person, as the KJV; .

Did you mean "same" as the KJV? I believe the KJV had about 48 and some alternates working on it.

 

[DHK]

According to the definitions I gave, a godly sorrow for sin is part of repentance.

If one does not have a godly sorrow for sin, one has not repented with a real repentance.

Why only quote part of the definition?

2 Corinthians 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

This is where that phrase "godly sorrow" is taken from. But it is not speaking of unbelievers. It written to believers. Read the entire chapter to get the context. There is nowhere in the Bible where it talks of an unbeliever having godly sorrow. That is a characteristic only of believers.
The word "Godly" means "God-like." No unbeliever can be "like God." Only believers have that privilege. The context was a believer who had repented over a sin that he had committed as a believer.
It is true we need to be sorry for what we have done. But this kind of sorrow is not the shallow sorry that is so often spoken of today. It is grief. Read Psalm 51 for a good picture of Godly sorrow that accompanies repentance.
Simply being sorry for your sins is not repentance.

 

[steaver]

The other thief did repent, but how you get that he repented of unbelief is strange. Where does the scripture say that he did not believe before and started to believe when he was on the cross?
.

There are three gospel accounts given about the thieves on the cross. Matthew, Mark and Luke. Luke tells us that one of the thieves became a believer, now does Luke say this verbatum? No, but we know this because the thief asked Jesus to remember him and Jesus replied that he would be in paradise (saved). This is "believing".

Matthew and Mark both tell us that both thieves were insulting Jesus. Now either you must declare part of God's Word false or you must take into account all three testimonies.

"In the same way the robbers who were crucified with him also heaped insults on him." (Matt 27:44)

"Let this Christ,* this King of Israel, come down now from the cross, that we may see and believe." Those crucified with him also heaped insults on him." (Mark 15:32)

So it is clear that both thieves were in unbeliefduring the crucifixion and at a certain point the one thief had a change of heart and mind-repentance!

Believers do not hurl insults at Jesus.

 

[DHK]

I gave you the definition of the English word repent and you still deny it means what it means.

The denial is yours Moriah. The Bible was written in Greek not English.

The English Bibles we have been translated by many translators, and not just one person, as the KJV;

This shows ignorance on your part. There are many modern translations that have been translated by only one man such as Kenneth Taylor's, Living Bible, Moffat's Translation, etc. But the KJV was translated by 52 highly qualified scholars.

however, you want to question all the many translators and tell us no they did not understand the English word ‘repent.’

Primarily I question your understanding.

You also do not have the original Greek transcripts in front of you; you are translating English back to Greek.

That is not true. I have a Greek NT, with no English in it whatsoever. I believe it is as accurate to the original as a Greek NT could be. God has promised to preserve his word. Whether the language is English, Spanish, German, or any other language, it is translated from the Greek. It is the Greek that is accurate. Translations lose meaning, and are more inaccurate. I can speak two languages fluently and am acquainted with five. When I translate from the Greek into any one of those languages the translation always loses some meaning. There are idioms specific to the Greek that other languages, when translated, cannot give the force that the Greek has.
Repent means to repent, just as the English dictionary says.

As for John Calvin being the one to say repentance is about going from unbelief to belief in God…I gave the Website to show you. Stop threatening slander to everyone who debates you. This is supposed to be a safe Christian place for all to discuss their beliefs.

You didn't give me a website. I want you to quote his exact words by looking them up yourself in a commentary. Go to John 3:16 for example, and see what he says about "that whosoever believes on the name of the son of God" and what it means, not what the Calvinist of today says it means, but what Calvin himself says it means.

 

[steaver]

You miss the whole point. Some on the board say, “to repent does not mean one is sorry for their sins,” and that no one can be sorry for their sins until after Jesus saves them. However, if one is not sorry for their sins, then it is not true repentance. Who would believe in Jesus and repent of sins but not really be sorry? It is a false teaching that can do much harm, for we are to repent of sins.
This is an important topic. There are those who say we cannot be sorry for sins before being saved and that there is only repentance for unbelief.

.

I do not miss the bible's point which is that salvation is not predecated upon one "feeling sorry for thier sins". It can be part of one's born again moment, but it is not something required on the spot for God to save.

I was saved at age 10 after hearing a Billy Graham sermon on TV. Billy said if you confess to God you are a sinner and pray asking Jesus to save you He will. Now i don't remember Billy ever saying you must feel sorry for your sins, nor do I remember feeling sorry for my sins. I do remember him saying something like being willing to repent of your sins. I did know I was a sinner and I did know I wanted to be saved. So I prayed and confessed and asked God to save me through Jesus' atonement like Billy said. From that time forward I can remember many times of sinning and feeling sorry and confessing and asking for forgiveness.

 

[Moriah]

I do not miss the bible's point which is that salvation is not predecated upon one "feeling sorry for thier sins". It can be part of one's born again moment, but it is not something required on the spot for God to save.

I was saved at age 10 after hearing a Billy Graham sermon on TV. Billy said if you confess to God you are a sinner and pray asking Jesus to save you He will. Now i don't remember Billy ever saying you must feel sorry for your sins, nor do I remember feeling sorry for my sins. I do remember him saying something like being willing to repent of your sins. I did know I was a sinner and I did know I wanted to be saved. So I prayed and confessed and asked God to save me through Jesus' atonement like Billy said. From that time forward I can remember many times of sinning and feeling sorry and confessing and asking for forgiveness.

So, are you claiming that you did not know sins were bad and something to feel bad for doing? Let us reason together. Who repents of things they do not believe are wrong? You said you remember that Billy Graham said to repent of your sins. Did you not know that repent means you are sorry for them and know that you are not supposed to do them?
You said you do not remember feeling sorry for you sins, you were not proud of them were you? I am not trying to be rude, just trying to show you that you most likely new that sins were wrong, and sins are something to feel bad for doing. You probably also knew deep down that repenting means being sorry.

By the way, that is a nice testimony.

I hope you preach to people to repent of their sins so that Jesus will save them. I hope you let them know that repent means to be sorry for their sins and to desire not to do them anymore.

 

[Moriah]

Did you mean "same" as the KJV? I believe the KJV had about 48 and some alternates working on it.

I read somewhere that it is was one person. It does not matter in the greater scheme of things. It is like trying to strain out a gnat while swallowing a camel.

 

[steaver]

I hope you preach to people to repent of their sins so that Jesus will save them. I hope you let them know that repent means to be sorry for their sins and to turn desire not to do them anymore.

Sorry, I do not preach that way. I do not tell them they must feel sorry for their sins. I do not tell them they must turn from their sins. I tell them we are sinners and are in need of a Saviour. I tell them about Jesus, His sinless life, His death for our sins, His ressurrection. That He is Lord and God just as Thomas procalimed at his own rebirth! I tell them about the Holiness of God and the depravity of man.

And I tell them that they will receive a Comfortor if they choose to believe, the Holy Spirit of Christ, whom will convict them of all their sin and will work on their souls to form them into the image of Christ.

I tell them to repent of their unbelief and believe! And how God will sanctify you and make your soul white as snow, how he will take those scarlet sins and cast them away as far as the east is from the west and He will remember them no more. That God will make you His child and He will never leave you nor forsake you. That He will seal you unto the day of redemption by His Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit will tell them they need to repent of their sins, and the Holy Spirit will convict them of their sins, and when they receive that new soft heart they will feel sorry on their own for the sins they have committed and for those they will commit in the future, without me telling them to do so.

Feeling sorry and repenting of sins will naturally follow conversion. Why would we need to add that to our preaching as a condition for receiving God's grace? If one truly wants salvation through Jesus, then repenting and sorry will naturally follow. Else they did not convert.

 

[steaver]

I read somewhere that it is was one person. It does not matter in the greater scheme of things. It is like trying to strain out a gnat while swallowing a camel.

Hey, we all make mistakes. Can't be perfect! Boy i sure do hate having to eat my crow though! :laugh: Doesn;t taste very good

 

[Moriah]

The denial is yours Moriah. The Bible was written in Greek not English.

You are reading it in English and trying to translate it back to Greek. Repent means repent. Repent means to be sorry for your sins and desire to stop doing them.

This shows ignorance on your part. There are many modern translations that have been translated by only one man such as Kenneth Taylor's, Living Bible, Moffat's Translation, etc. But the KJV was translated by 52 highly qualified scholars.

You attacking me rudely over my saying one man translated the KJV. Calm down. It is as if you are trying to strain out a gnat while you swallow a camel. It is not such a big deal. You are teaching others that repent does not mean to be sorry for sins, now that is a big deal.

Primarily I question your understanding.

You not only question my understanding, but all the translators of all the English Bibles along with the English speaking dictionaries.

That is not true. I have a Greek NT, with no English in it whatsoever. I believe it is as accurate to the original as a Greek NT could be. God has promised to preserve his word. Whether the language is English, Spanish, German, or any other language, it is translated from the Greek. It is the Greek that is accurate. Translations lose meaning, and are more inaccurate. I can speak two languages fluently and am acquainted with five. When I translate from the Greek into any one of those languages the translation always loses some meaning. There are idioms specific to the Greek that other languages, when translated, cannot give the force that the Greek has.

All that and you still do not understand what God means when He says repent. Just as God says, it is not about how educated a person is when it comes to understanding and knowing Him.

You didn't give me a website. I want you to quote his exact words by looking them up yourself in a commentary. Go to John 3:16 for example, and see what he says about "that whosoever believes on the name of the son of God" and what it means, not what the Calvinist of today says it means, but what Calvin himself says it means.

I did give you a website. I do not always give the scripture when I speak about what God says. Is John Calvin's teachings numbered and referenced as the Bible? lol I certainly do not have to do that for John Calvin. Now since you want to say John Calvin does not teach something that I said he teaches, then you can get the information to show me I am wrong, and just do not call someone a slanderer.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

Makes no sense to say one can repent without having sorrow for sin.

Why would anyone think they would be accepted of God without repentance for sin? The Psalmist David once wrote:

Psalms 34:18 The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.

A contrite spirit, a crushed spirit. The Lord saves those who have a crushed spirit.

What is involved in "a contrite spirit" if not sorrow for sins?

I mean, really...

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

"If one truly wants salvation through Jesus, then repenting and sorry will naturally follow. Else they did not convert."

HP: :Let's examine just this one statement. On the face one could assume by the above comment that if one has converted, they have repented of their sins. But is this what in reality is taught? No way. What is so often taught and expressed by many on this forum represents ideas of repentance far from the facade of truth mentioned above. By their own testimonies they prove beyond any reasonable doubt that they are not converted IF we but hold their feet to the fire of their own ideas concerning repentance such as the one quoted above. Their own testimonies combined with their definitions attached to repentance condemns many.

We are told by many on this list that they sin every day, and mock at any that might believe or practice a different lifestyle. Whatever repentance is to many on this forum, if you are doing the same sins over and over on a daily basis, you are fooling yourself to believe you have repented or are in reality expressing godly sorrow for ones sins. What in reality/practice in their lives is being taught, is that repentance IS simply feeling some sort of sorrow concerning your sin, but in no wise is repentance at all. If it was true repentance one would turn from, cease from such activity, NOT simply continue the same old sins day after day. Again, if we take at face value the above quote on repentance, it would prove that many have not been converted.

The irony of this discussion over repentance is that while some that claim they sin everyday, more oftern than not they are the one trying to act as if they have a higher ideal of what repentance entails, while they practice their sins on a daily basis. Go figure. You cannot get more blindly arrogant and deceived than that. Sure, find fault with those preaching one must truly repent and turn from their sins, while you try and take the high ground with your elevated notion, i.e., in your own mind, as to what repentance means, while failing to allow sincere repentance to do its work in your own life. What utter self deception and blindness to the truth of the true nature of repentance some illustrate.

 

[Moriah]

Sorry, I do not preach that way. I do not tell them they must feel sorry for their sins. I do not tell them they must turn from their sins. I tell them we are sinners and are in need of a Saviour.

Ha ha ha Why do they need a Savior and what does a sinner mean? You are fighting the Truth.

tell them about Jesus, His sinless life, His death for our sins, His ressurrection. That He is Lord and God just as Thomas procalimed at his own rebirth! I tell them about the Holiness of God and the depravity of man.

I guess when you tell them they are depraved they are proud, or maybe they will be sorry for their sins. Why are you afraid to say what Jesus said? Jesus said to repent or perish. Why are you not telling them repent means to be sorry? Does it not fit in with what you spent so much time reading about and learning from your religion of choice?

And I tell them that they will receive a Comfortor if they choose to believe, the Holy Spirit of Christ, whom will convict them of all their sin and will work on their souls to form them into the image of Christ.

Teach them the Truth, that they will receive the Holy Spirit when God accepts them, when they obey. See Acts 5:32.

I tell them to repent of their unbelief and believe!

You tell them that, but the Bible tells us we are separated from God because of sin, so why do you not tell them to repent for the sins that they have done?

And how God will sanctify you and make your soul white as snow, how he will take those scarlet sins and cast them away as far as the east is from the west and He will remember them no more. That God will make you His child and He will never leave you nor forsake you. That He will seal you unto the day of redemption by His Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit will tell them they need to repent of their sins, and the Holy Spirit will convict them of their sins, and when they receive that new soft heart they will feel sorry on their own for the sins they have committed and for those they will commit in the future, without me telling them to do so. Feeling sorry and repenting of sins will naturally follow conversion.

You are trying hard not to tell people the truth. You said Billy Graham said to confess that you are a sinner, to repent. You claim you were saved from hearing those words and doing as Billy Graham said, yet you are trying hard not to say those words to anyone else.

Why would we need to add that to our preaching as a condition for receiving God's grace? If one truly wants salvation through Jesus, then repenting and sorry will naturally follow. Else they did not convert.

Again, Jesus says repent or perish. You said Billy Graham said repent. Someone somewhere somehow taught that Jesus’ words were not right.
Repent or perish. Teach the Word of God. God knows better than you or anyone else.

 

[steaver]

Whatever repentance is to many on this forum, if you are doing the same sins over and over on a daily basis, you are fooling yourself to believe you have repented or are in reality expressing godly sorrow for ones sins. .

Would you have us to believe HP that you have never committed the same sin twice since your conversion? Are you serious? You never broke a commandment more than once?

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Now Ann is one that always is seeking evidence from ones spouse as to their true spiritual condition. Let me ask you something Ann. If you committed adultery against your husband, and told him you were sorry for your sin, and that you had repented for it.....BUT continued doing the same sin day after day, would your spouse believe in the repentance you were admitting to have done? Go ahead and ask him. I would be interested in his response.

Then ask God about not only that sin but any other one might claim to have repented for yet commit on a daily basis as so many testify to on this forum.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Steaver, I am responding to your words concerning repentance. If you need to change your definition to fit with the practice of so many that sin every day, go ahead. I am listening.

 

[steaver]

Steaver, I am responding to your words concerning repentance. If you need to change your definition to fit with the practice of so many that sin every day, go ahead. I am listening.

Would you have us to believe HP that you have never committed the same sin twice since your conversion? Are you serious? You never broke a commandment more than once?