Repenting of sin-Once saved always saved

[StraightAndNarrow]

Originally posted by RightFromWrong:
Here let me try to explain it more clearly....

You agree that the first and the third one meant the person was not saved in the first place right ?

But lets look at the 2nd one which you said " Lost his salvation "

Mat 13:20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same ( REFERING BACK TO THE FIRST EXAMPLE, THEY ARE BASICALLY THE SAME ) is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy ( EMOTIONAL ACCEPTANCE ) ) receiveth it; Mat 13:21 Yet hath he not root ( NOT A TRUE CONVERSION )in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

Again this person isn't saved.

The first example shows how someone can " INTELECTUALLY " believes the word presented but SATAN ( one of our enemies ) snatches the truth away.

The second shows how one " EMOTIONALLY " accepts the word but, but when trials and tribulation don't match up to his emotions ( FEELINGS another enemy ) he quickly abandons the truth.

The third shows how one " GREEDLY " What God can do for them type acceptance. But when the cares of the world (Cares of the WORLD another enemy ) don't meet up to their expectaions then they too abandon the truth.

I always said it is HOW someone comes to Christ that matters. If one hears a message on Hell they may accept Christ as a way to advoid Hell. Another hears a message about Jesus being a savior who will take away all their problems, so they accept him based on that.

But it is the one who truly accepts him as LORD and makes him LORD of their life that has a TRUE conversion. That is why Jesus said " many will come to him in that day and say LORD, LORD, but he will say depart from me for I NEVER KNEW you "

Again it isn't my job to worry about who is saved and who isn't. It is my job to witness to all as if they were not and to disciple those who say they are.

Let me see if I can make this a little easier to understand. No, the first man and the second are not in the same condition. The first man did not understand the word. How can you be saved if you don't understand the word? This reminds me of the story of Philip and the eunuch.

Act 8:30 And Philip ran thither to [him], and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?
Act 8:31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.

In the second case the person heard the word and received it with joy. The scripture said he dureth (endured) for a while but then fell away. What was his condition right after he received the word with joy. I'm saying that he was saved. Please give me a better description of accepting Christ if you can. What was his condition after he was offended and fell away? He was lost. What happened in between? He lost his salvation.

David Guzik's commentary says:

2. (18-23) The parable of the soils explained: each soil represents one of four responses to the gospel of Jesus

a. The gospel must be understood before it can bear any fruit; one of Satan's chief works is to keep men in darkness regarding their understanding of the gospel (2 Corinthians 4:3-4)

b. Others receive the gospel enthusiastically, but it is short-lived, because they are not willing to endure tribulation or persecution . . . because of the word

c. Others have fertile ground for the word - but their "soil" is too fertile, because it also grows all sorts of other things which choke out the word of God

d. But others receive the word, and it bears fruit in their "soil" - though in differing proportions (though none are "small")

 

[RightFromWrong]

The problem you are having Strightandnarrow is you assume that the 2nd man is " SAVED "

I do not know where you are getting that from. All this parable is talking about is the different types of people who hear Gods word and what they do with IT.

It is talking about their RESPONSE to hearing Gods word not what happens after they " Get Save " this is very clear in the parable.

Some people accept Gods word INTELECTUALLY
does that mean they are save ? NO ! They may have a head knowledge but that is it.

Some people get all emotional when they hear Gods word it makes them FEEL good , does that make them saved ? NO ! they had an experence so what !

Some people have good intentions to follow after what they heard thinking that will lead to a better life. But when things do not go the way they thought it would, they leave. Hoping for a better future, does that make them saved ? NO !

The sad thing about many who preach Gods word today are preaching EASY believism ( did I spell that right ? ) anyway so MANY are " comming " to Christ for the wrong reasons. They hear God loves you and has a plan for your life so just follow him. God doesn't want you to go to Hell so just follow him. God can fix all your problems so just follow him.

So when things don't go the way they were told or thought it would, or their emotions change they " fall away "

Bottom line is they were NEVER saved in the first place. God knows the ones who TRULY gave their heart and lives to him. We do not !

Don't forget there are alot of wolves in sheeps clothing in churches today. I think we are going to be surprised when we go to heaven and find out who isn't there that we thought would be and visa versa.

 

[RightFromWrong]

according to you Jesus talks about the 1st one is unsaved then the 2nd is saved, then the 3rd isn't saved and the 4th is.

Don't you think if that were the case they would be more in order, lets say the first two would be not saved then the last 2 would be saved.

More like the first 3 are NOT saved and the last one is the TRUE believer. The one that counts !

Seems that would make more sense for understanding don't you ?

 

[RightFromWrong]

Answer me this StraightAndNarrow

How do you explain Eternal Life ? The Bible says when we accept Christ with true faith, faith that saves. We receive eternal life.

The second man cannot truly be saved, receive eternal life, then lose it. Then it wouldn't be eternal life

The Bible says, One who is saved "has everlasting life, and ... is passed from death unto life" (John 5:24). Eternal life by definition cannot be temporary. It is the present possession of all those who have truly trusted Christ.

 

[webdog]

Originally posted by RightFromWrong:
Answer me this StraightAndNarrow

How do you explain Eternal Life ? The Bible says when we accept Christ with true faith, faith that saves. We receive eternal life.

The second man cannot truly be saved, receive eternal life, then lose it. Then it wouldn't be eternal life

The Bible says, One who is saved "has everlasting life, and ... is passed from death unto life" (John 5:24). Eternal life by definition cannot be temporary. It is the present possession of all those who have truly trusted Christ.

Amen! I hate when people who don't believe in OSAS use the term "so called eternal life" or "so called eternal security". This is not what I believe, IT'S WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS!!!

 

[RightFromWrong]

StraightAndNarrow

This thought came to me this morning. Think about the time when Christ gave this parable. He was going around performing MIRACLES, people were in awe of what he was doing, and the words that came out of his motuh.

Many wanted to follow him and many did. But there were also those who fell away, who left him because they didn't have true saving faith.

Think about the emotions that were involved when he spoke, did miracles and traveled around.
Again people responded out of INTELLECTUAL faith, EMOTIONAL faith and what can I GET OUT OF IT faith.

But not I want to make you LORD, I GIVE IT ALL TO YOU faith.

 

[StraightAndNarrow]

Jhn 15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
Jhn 15:2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every [branch] that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
Jhn 15:3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
Jhn 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
Jhn 15:5 I am the vine, ye [are] the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
Jhn 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast [them] into the fire, and they are burned.
**************************************************

This is what Jesus said. He is the vine and we are the branches. If we abide in Him (stay in the faith) we will bear much fruit. If not, God the Father will prune us away we will be cast into the fire. That says to me that salvation is dependent on enduring until the end. If we do not remain faithful we will be cast into the fire. You can interpret that as you will. I interpret that to mean that if we turn away from Christ we will go to Hell.

 

[webdog]

Grace +

salvation is dependent on enduring until the end.

= NO GRACE and a result of works.

 

[StraightAndNarrow]

Originally posted by webdog:
Grace +
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> salvation is dependent on enduring until the end.

= NO GRACE and a result of works. </font>[/QUOTE]No, I believe that salvation is by Grace. However, I also believe that this scripture and the others I have quoted (many other examples available) show that relying on Grace alone and not developing a close relationship with Christ which is evident in our daily lives, will lead you right down the broad way and through the wide gate to perdition.

Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Mat 7:14 Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Now, do you want to quote some scripture or explain why you don't believe the scripture I quoted?

 

[webdog]

Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Mat 7:14 Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

This speaks nothing of persverance. Notice the "enter in at the straight gate". It does not say "enter in at the straight gate, and be sure to stay on the narrow road". If you enter into the straight gate, YOU ARE ON THE NARROW ROAD. Those who do not choose Christ, enter into the gate that is "wide" and leads to destruction.

 

[RightFromWrong]

Well I've been gone for a few days and I still see Straightandnarrow still doesn't get it

I said it before and I'll say it again !

Many of the passages people use to " Say " you can lose your salvation have nothing to do with that.

It all has to do with ones RELATIONSHIP and walk with the Lord after they are SAVED. NOT THEIR POSITION.
You seem to be having a problem with the word ETERNAL LIFE.

If ones walk is not dependant on the VINE and he doesn't BEAR FRUIT then he will suffer loss in Heaven.
1 Cor. 3:10-15

I can tell that straightanarrow just wants to argue and as soon as this one is expalined away to him, he will just try to come up with another one.
Study the foundations of what it means to be Born Again and receive eternal Life and you will understand there is nothing YOU or anyone can do to lose your salvation. EPH. 2:8

Dear RightFromWrong,
I edited your post here to remove the personal attack on StraightandNarrow's character. Please refrain from speaking toward anyone as if they are an occultist.

Bro. Dallas

[ August 27, 2005, 12:16 AM: Message edited by: Frogman ]

 

[StraightAndNarrow]

People like OSAS because it means they don't have live an authenic life. They can be "carnal Christians," Well, I'll give you a clue. There isn't any such thing as a carnal Christian, someone who talks the talk but doesn't walk the walk. Yes, I'll argue all day against a false religion.

 

[RightFromWrong]

Yeah I guess Jesus was a liar and a false teacher. What he did on the cross wasn't good enough, we ( OSAS ) are all going to Hell. Darn it

Your right, so argue all you want.

 

[RightFromWrong]

http://www.bible.ca/cr-american-baptist-association.htm

HERE IS YOUR DENOMINATIONS CREED ON WHAT THEY BELIEVE LINK ABOVE.

BELOW IS # 14 and 15 OF WHAT AMERICAN BAPTIST TEACHES ON THIS SUBJECT. YOU DON'T EVEN AGREE WITH THEM

14 We believe that the depraved sinner is saved wholly by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, and the requisites to regeneration are repentance toward God and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 13:3-5; John 3:16-18; Acts 20:21; Rom. 6:23; Eph. 2:8, 9), and that the Holy Spirit convicts sinners, regenerates, seals, secures, and indwells every believer (John 3:6; John 16:8, 9; Rom. 8:9-11; 1 Cor. 6:19, 20; Eph. 4:30; Titus 3:5).

15 We believe that all who trust Jesus Christ for salvation are eternally secure in Him and shall not perish (John 3:36; John 5:24; John 10:27-30; Rom. 8:35-39; Heb. 10:39; 1 Peter 1:5).

 

[HankD]

If we do not remain faithful we will be cast into the fire. You can interpret that as you will. I interpret that to mean that if we turn away from Christ we will go to Hell.

OR:

1 Corinthians 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

The problem with the misunderstanding of OSAS (IMO) is the definition of the word "saved" and it's different forms.

We assume all the nuances and flavors of meaning from a koine word simple transfer one-for-one over to English but IMO it's not that simple and in every occurrence of a given "problem" word we should carefully consider the context.

Both languages (koine, English) have a wide scope of meaning(s) for the word "save", often intersecting but often times not exactly aligned and sometimes not at all.

Then there is the object of the verb, that is, what is being "saved"?

http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/words/4/1124375100-3712.html

HankD

 

[RightFromWrong]

Hank if you are going to quote scripture put where in the Bible it is from. Where is this from!

If we do not remain faithful we will be cast into the fire. You can interpret that as you will. I interpret that to mean that if we turn away from Christ we will go to Hell.

 

[StraightAndNarrow]

Originally posted by RightFromWrong:
http://www.bible.ca/cr-american-baptist-association.htm

HERE IS YOUR DENOMINATIONS CREED ON WHAT THEY BELIEVE LINK ABOVE.

BELOW IS # 14 and 15 OF WHAT AMERICAN BAPTIST TEACHES ON THIS SUBJECT. YOU DON'T EVEN AGREE WITH THEM

14 We believe that the depraved sinner is saved wholly by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, and the requisites to regeneration are repentance toward God and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 13:3-5; John 3:16-18; Acts 20:21; Rom. 6:23; Eph. 2:8, 9), and that the Holy Spirit convicts sinners, regenerates, seals, secures, and indwells every believer (John 3:6; John 16:8, 9; Rom. 8:9-11; 1 Cor. 6:19, 20; Eph. 4:30; Titus 3:5).

15 We believe that all who trust Jesus Christ for salvation are eternally secure in Him and shall not perish (John 3:36; John 5:24; John 10:27-30; Rom. 8:35-39; Heb. 10:39; 1 Peter 1:5).

The Bible says that we should work out our own salvation with fear and trembling. Do you actually believe everything that your denomination or church do? I suggest that you should rethink thjat and decide what you believe not what somebody else says you shopuld believe.

 

[webdog]

Originally posted by StraightAndNarrow:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by RightFromWrong:
http://www.bible.ca/cr-american-baptist-association.htm

HERE IS YOUR DENOMINATIONS CREED ON WHAT THEY BELIEVE LINK ABOVE.

BELOW IS # 14 and 15 OF WHAT AMERICAN BAPTIST TEACHES ON THIS SUBJECT. YOU DON'T EVEN AGREE WITH THEM

14 We believe that the depraved sinner is saved wholly by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, and the requisites to regeneration are repentance toward God and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 13:3-5; John 3:16-18; Acts 20:21; Rom. 6:23; Eph. 2:8, 9), and that the Holy Spirit convicts sinners, regenerates, seals, secures, and indwells every believer (John 3:6; John 16:8, 9; Rom. 8:9-11; 1 Cor. 6:19, 20; Eph. 4:30; Titus 3:5).

15 We believe that all who trust Jesus Christ for salvation are eternally secure in Him and shall not perish (John 3:36; John 5:24; John 10:27-30; Rom. 8:35-39; Heb. 10:39; 1 Peter 1:5).

The Bible says that we should work out our own salvation with fear and trembling. Do you actually believe everything that your denomination or church do? I suggest that you should rethink thjat and decide what you believe not what somebody else says you shopuld believe. </font>[/QUOTE]We aren't supposed to work out our salvation, meaning we need to make sure we maintain it, we need to work out our salvation like we work out our arms, we are to keep our walk with God "active". I work out quite often. If I stop, my arms will atrophy, but they won't fall off. If I work out more, they will become bigger and more efficient. Salvation is the same way.

 

[StraightAndNarrow]

I don't think anyone has addressed this passage of scripture which I posted earlier.
***************************************************
Mat 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
Mat 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth [his] sheep from the goats:
Mat 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Mat 25:35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
Mat 25:36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
Mat 25:37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed [thee]? or thirsty, and gave [thee] drink?
Mat 25:38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took [thee] in? or naked, and clothed [thee]?
Mat 25:39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
Mat 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done [it] unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done [it] unto me.
Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Mat 25:42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
Mat 25:43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
Mat 25:44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
Mat 25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did [it] not to one of the least of these, ye did [it] not to me.
Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

********************************************
These are all people that are being judged. Some of them of entering into eternal life and of course only Christians will do so. Therefore, Christians are being judged by the same standards as non-Christians. Of course, good deeds done by non-believers are as "filthy rags" and count for nothing.

 

[RightFromWrong]

http://www.bible.ca/cr-american-baptist-association.htm

HERE IS YOUR DENOMINATIONS CREED ON WHAT THEY BELIEVE LINK ABOVE.

BELOW IS # 14 and 15 OF WHAT AMERICAN BAPTIST TEACHES ON THIS SUBJECT. YOU DON'T EVEN AGREE WITH THEM

14 We believe that the depraved sinner is saved wholly by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, and the requisites to regeneration are repentance toward God and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 13:3-5; John 3:16-18; Acts 20:21; Rom. 6:23; Eph. 2:8, 9), and that the Holy Spirit convicts sinners, regenerates, seals, secures, and indwells every believer (John 3:6; John 16:8, 9; Rom. 8:9-11; 1 Cor. 6:19, 20; Eph. 4:30; Titus 3:5).

15 We believe that all who trust Jesus Christ for salvation are eternally secure in Him and shall not perish (John 3:36; John 5:24; John 10:27-30; Rom. 8:35-39; Heb. 10:39; 1 Peter 1:5).