Replacement Theology

[pops]

There has been some open discussion of this subject lately particularly with a effort to discredit pastor Rick Warren and his purpose driven series of books.
According to the information that I could find 'Replacement Theology' started a long time ago and basically was a effort to say that God was no longer concerned with the Jews and the old testament was no longer relevant etc... Those that are discrediting pastor Warren (In case you don't know a Southern Baptist as is Charles Stanley) are implying that he is saying that you can be saved by following his life principles! - I believe this crusade was started by the Calvary Chapel (a branch or off shoot of the Assemblies).
This replacement theory is also being used against other pastors and thier attire, use of contemporary music by other pastors etc..
Look up the statement of faith of the Saddleback Church and compare this with the statement of faith of the Calvary Chapel and tell me who's got it right! - Pastor Warren is just saying now your saved get off your duff and do something and here are some principals that may help.

 

[Benjamin]

“Replacement theology” seems to be a favorite phrase by some who oppose the doctrines of Covenant theologians and these accusations usually go along with calling them anti-Semitic. But the vast majority of CTs do not consider it replacement at all, but rather expansion of a family, “spiritual Israel”.

 

[webdog]

Replacement theology is false doctrine. Throughout the Bible and history God has re-established His covenant with Israel. Romans 9-11 should discredit RT alone...

 

[ReformedBaptist]

As one who rejects dispensationalism and finds what is called Covenant Theology to be biblical, I am not sure what replacement theology is, textbook wise that is. I am sure I can find it somewhere, but does anyone out there believe this doctrine, and if so, what is it?

 

[TCGreek]

As one who rejects dispensationalism and finds what is called Covenant Theology to be biblical, I am not sure what replacement theology is, textbook wise that is. I am sure I can find it somewhere, but does anyone out there believe this doctrine, and if so, what is it?

RB, RT says that the Church has replaced Israel in God's plan.

 

[pops]

Now that TCGreek has clarified what I said originally you can re-read my original post and hopefully see how dangerous this theology could be. Maybe not as awful as in Germany burn the books , burn those not pure .... You say it (this hatred) can not happen here well friends it has. The Calvary Chapel had what amounted to a book burning when they threw all of Rick Warrens books out and when promote what I consider hatred (or whatever is the next closest thing to it) when they condemn individuals without cause.
You may or may not agree with me and that is fine - my purpose is to bring this info before you and the facts as I know them and let you determine the truth of it.

 

[ReformedBaptist]

Now that TCGreek has clarified what I said originally you can re-read my original post and hopefully see how dangerous this theology could be. Maybe not as awful as in Germany burn the books , burn those not pure .... You say it (this hatred) can not happen here well friends it has. The Calvary Chapel had what amounted to a book burning when they threw all of Rick Warrens books out and when promote what I consider hatred (or whatever is the next closest thing to it) when they condemn individuals without cause.
You may or may not agree with me and that is fine - my purpose is to bring this info before you and the facts as I know them and let you determine the truth of it.

Hey pops,

I don't think we should make too much of what Calvary Chapel did regarding Warren's books. I don't think it can be justly compared to what the papacy did with Tyndale's books and NT for example. People within Calvary chapel can still get the books and read Warren's work. It just appears that CC has taken a position on Warren's movement and chose as a demonination not to promote, sell, or use his materials. Being in agreement with their stand I actually applaud the action.

Concerning replacement theology I am uncomfortable with the concept that the Church has replaced Israel and find it unbiblical that there is no more covenant promise to them. There appears to me to be in Scripture a covenant of promise for a great revival yet future to happen with Israel. Now, this in no way places me in the camp of the dispensationalists. I believe dispensationalists do err in their tenacious grip on two peoples of God. There is one.

It is not Israel and the Church, but ONE new man made out of the two: Jew and Gentile...and the Body is Christ.

RB

 

[skypair]

Concerning replacement theology I am uncomfortable with the concept that the Church has replaced Israel and find it unbiblical that there is no more covenant promise to them. There appears to me to be in Scripture a covenant of promise for a great revival yet future to happen with Israel. Now, this in no way places me in the camp of the dispensationalists. I believe dispensationalists do err in their tenacious grip on two peoples of God. There is one.

You just admitted that in time (past and future) there are 2 peoples -- which is true and dispensational.

skypair

 

[TCGreek]

Hey pops,

I don't think we should make too much of what Calvary Chapel did regarding Warren's books. I don't think it can be justly compared to what the papacy did with Tyndale's books and NT for example. People within Calvary chapel can still get the books and read Warren's work. It just appears that CC has taken a position on Warren's movement and chose as a demonination not to promote, sell, or use his materials. Being in agreement with their stand I actually applaud the action.

Concerning replacement theology I am uncomfortable with the concept that the Church has replaced Israel and find it unbiblical that there is no more covenant promise to them. There appears to me to be in Scripture a covenant of promise for a great revival yet future to happen with Israel. Now, this in no way places me in the camp of the dispensationalists. I believe dispensationalists do err in their tenacious grip on two peoples of God. There is one.

It is not Israel and the Church, but ONE new man made out of the two: Jew and Gentile...and the Body is Christ.

RB

1. I'm with RB on this one, and as noted God still has ethnic Israel in mind (Rom 9-11).

2. In the meantime, I'm not persuaded by Dispensationalism.

 

[Aaron]

I'm with ReformedBaptist on this one, too. There is no more Jew or Greek, but we are all one in Christ.

 

[lbaker]

RB, RT says that the Church has replaced Israel in God's plan.

That is pretty much what I believe.

Les

 

[TCGreek]

That is pretty much what I believe.

Les

Does God have a future plan for Israel at all?

 

[npetreley]

I'm with ReformedBaptist on this one, too. There is no more Jew or Greek, but we are all one in Christ.

While this is true with respect to salvation, God still has separate plans for the Jews.

I agree that replacement theology is false teaching. I believe it was Chrysostom who pioneered replacement theology. His teachings were (mis?)used by the nazis to help justify their antisemitism.

 

[ShotGunWillie]

There are three groups of individuals, Jews, Christians, and Gentiles.

God still has a plan for the Jew, even the Jew who rejected Christ originally. They are still God's chosen people.

 

[ReformedBaptist]

You just admitted that in time (past and future) there are 2 peoples -- which is true and dispensational.

skypair

SP,

Think if I grunt you will see premil, pretrib, dispy doctrine in it. lol :laugh:

Has there been two groups? Yes. Jew and Gentile. Are their two groups today? Yes. Jew and Gentile. Are there in Christ two groups? No. We are one in Christ, both Jew and Gentile? Are the gentiles a new group? In a sense yes. They are one new man. Is there one people of GOd or two? There is one. We are grafted into Israel and made joint heirs with them. Is this with natural Israel? No. It is according to the promise in Christ.

Does God have a plan/covenant for natural Israel? Yes. When they are brought it will they be a different group than the one new man? No. There is One Shepherd and One fold.

RB

 

[tinytim]

Does God have a future plan for Israel at all?

I know you directed that question to lbaker, but I would say so.. just by watching the news in the mid-east over the last 100 yrs.. you can see God's hand at work...

I believe when Israel rejected Jesus.. God opened the door to us Gentiles.
And we were grafted into Israel...

This is what God was referring too when He told Abraham that his descendants would bless the other nations....

Israel's sole purpose was to introduce the world to God...

God chose them to bring the world to Him... They blew it.. but God still won.. because ultimately, Jesus came.

I believe that after the age of the Gentiles, God will bring Israel back to Him....

Why else would Israel become a nation after 1900 yrs? What other nation has died and revived again like that.... God has to have something up His sleave.

 

[TCGreek]

I know you directed that question to lbaker, but I would say so.. just by watching the news in the mid-east over the last 100 yrs.. you can see God's hand at work...

I believe when Israel rejected Jesus.. God opened the door to us Gentiles.
And we were grafted into Israel...

This is what God was referring too when He told Abraham that his descendants would bless the other nations....

Israel's sole purpose was to introduce the world to God...

God chose them to bring the world to Him... They blew it.. but God still won.. because ultimately, Jesus came.

I believe that after the age of the Gentiles, God will bring Israel back to Him....

Why else would Israel become a nation after 1900 yrs? What other nation has died and revived again like that.... God has to have something up His sleave.

1. This seems to agree quite well with Romans 9-11.

2. I know some of my Reformed brethren might disagree with me, but I agree with you because of what the Scripture says.

3. Even we the rejection of the Messiah, it was part of the decretive will of God, so that the Gentiles might come in, but that takes us even into the heart of Eschatology as we try to flesh out what this all means.

 

[lbaker]

Does God have a future plan for Israel at all?

I don't believe so, at least not as the chosen people.

AD 70 pretty much slammed the door on Israel as a chosen nation. That's what Matthew 24 is all about.

Although current events in the Middle East do give me pause. On the other hand, if I had been alive in WWII I'm sure I would have thought Hitler was the AC and the end was near. So, I think it is a mistake to read too much into current events and think something historically unique is happening.

 

[TCGreek]

I don't believe so, at least not as the chosen people.

AD 70 pretty much slammed the door on Israel as a chosen nation. That's what Matthew 24 is all about.

Although current events in the Middle East do give me pause. On the other hand, if I had been alive in WWII I'm sure I would have thought Hitler was the AC and the end was near. So, I think it is a mistake to read too much into current events and think something historically unique is happening.

1. My belief about God's future place for Israel is not based on the Headlines. Rather, it's based on Romans 9-11.

2. Headline prophets are clueless like the rest of us as to times and dates in the mind God. We have seen how these headline prophets have failed miserably, time and time again.

 

[webdog]

I don't believe so, at least not as the chosen people.

AD 70 pretty much slammed the door on Israel as a chosen nation. That's what Matthew 24 is all about.

Although current events in the Middle East do give me pause. On the other hand, if I had been alive in WWII I'm sure I would have thought Hitler was the AC and the end was near. So, I think it is a mistake to read too much into current events and think something historically unique is happening.

I would suggest re-reading Romans 11, brother.