Reports of Side Effects Are Rising Rapidly (Covid vax)

[JonC]

@JonC
You do remember that the vast, vast majority of scientific experts said we would all be dead from another Ice age that was supposed to arrive in the 1990s. Then we were supposed to be killed off by now by global warming.
Just because there is a consensus does not believe it is correct.

I do. And this is an excellent example. Time proved the "new ice age" theory wrong. The data was the same for everyone....but the conclusions differed.

My view is consistent....look at the data, ignore the conclusions and statistical "evidence". Time will tell.

Both sides of the vaccination vs anti-vaccination are depending on these scientists.

Scientists say we need to be vaccinated and scientists say we do not need to be vaccinated.

Some say the spike protein is what allows the virus to infect cells (this is actually an old observation from past coronaviruses). Others say "not so". It really doesn't matter as long as spike protein is a character of the Delta varient.

My point is....how do you choose which of these scientists to believe and which ones to discount?

Many Christian scientists urge people to get vaccinated (many do not). How do you pick which ones to believe?

 

[Reynolds]

I do. And this is an excellent example. Time proved the "new ice age" theory wrong. The data was the same for everyone....but the conclusions differed.

My view is consistent....look at the data, ignore the conclusions and statistical "evidence". Time will tell.

Both sides of the vaccination vs anti-vaccination are depending on these scientists.

Scientists say we need to be vaccinated and scientists say we do not need to be vaccinated.

Some say the spike protein is what allows the virus to infect cells (this is actually an old observation from past coronaviruses). Others say "not so". It really doesn't matter as long as spike protein is a character of the Delta varient.

My point is....how do you choose which of these scientists to believe and which ones to discount?

Many Christian scientists urge people to get vaccinated (many do not). How do you pick which ones to believe?

You still didn't answer the question you asked me.

 

[JonC]

The broadness of natural immunity relates to antibodies against multiple viral proteins. For example, antibody-dependent enhancement was not observed with vaccines against the N-protein (nucleocapsid), or the H1 subunit located at the base of the spike protein.

Anti-N-protein antibodies attach to infected cells presenting bits of viral proteins on their surface. Consequently, they are not prone to form viral complexes thought to induce cytokine storm (in theory). Also, there was a study done that showed the need for a high enough dose of antibodies to neutralize the virus. Too few, and it is tagged for consumption by white blood cells, without enough to block (neutralize) each spike, rendering it non-infectious. Consumed virus infects the white blood cells, resulting in diminished immunity and higher viral load. Consequently, antibodies against the N-protein are safer, because the N-protein is hidden under the envelope and cannot attract anti-N antibodies directly to the live virus.

The H1 subunit is a complex argument, though. In theory, the conditions surrounding the virus when exposed to the lysosome of a macrophage cause the spike protein to cleave between the S2 and H1 subunits. The newly liberated H1, which sits beneath the spike becomes the new antigen. It serves to fuse the viral envelope with the encapsulating membrane formed by the macrophage around the virus. The result is that the virus then infects the macrophage.

The developers of the vaccines did not use any of the safer methods. I thought they would, but I looked into it and found that they made no effort to use recent discoveries to avoid antibody-dependent enhancement. They target the spike protein, which is the functional cause of ADE.

It all depends on sources....whose conclusions to believe and whose to discount.

I have read enough experts come to completely opposite conclusions. If the smart guys don't know then I don't know.

So I just look at the data in my ares, talk to friends at various hospitals, and gamble on what is happening here.

 

[JonC]

You still didn't answer the question you asked me.

Oh....I missed you asked.

How do I decide which scientists to believe?

I don't.

I believe what I have seen and talk to people I trust about their experiences. I ask a couple of friends how it is going in their hospitals. That's about it. Didn't put too much thought in it....most around here that were vaccinated had faired well compared to those who didn't.

Here the unvacvinated are becoming critically ill or dying at a rate far surpassing those who have been vaccinated. BUT that is not data to draw conclusions on (only 35% are vaccinated so it is expected most deaths would be among the unvaccinated).

 

[Reynolds]

Oh....I missed you asked.

How do I decide which scientists to believe?

I don't.

I believe what I have seen and talk to people I trust about their experiences. I ask a couple of friends how it is going in their hospitals. That's about it. Didn't put too much thought in it....most around here that were vaccinated had faired well compared to those who didn't.

Here the unvacvinated are becoming critically ill or dying at a rate far surpassing those who have been vaccinated. BUT that is not data to draw conclusions on (only 35% are vaccinated so it is expected most deaths would be among the unvaccinated).

I guess that's kind of how I look at it too. I have not personally known anyone who died of Covid. I know two that were pretty sick. One was pretty healthy. The other was a ticking health bomb in the first place.

If Covid is really as bad as the Democrats would have us believe, and it has killed over 600,000 Americans, why have we not militarily responded to China. If a bio weapon really killed 600,000 people, we just turn the other cheek? We don't mount a military response? I don't believe it?

 

[JonC]

I guess that's kind of how I look at it too. I have not personally known anyone who died with Covid. I know two that were pretty sick. One was pretty healthy. The other was a ticking health bomb in the first place.

I know a couple who have died of covid, a relative (20 years old) who is having severe issues following covid, a friend's daughter (24 years old) who had a stroke from covid, a few church members who died of covid.....so I do have opinions about the seriousness of the virus.

But it is strange. A coworker of my wife lost her husband from covid. He was in his mid 30's and healthy. She had covid and had no issues. We've have children in our community in critical care due to covid. But a 91 year old friend recovered (he didn't have an easy time at all, but wasn't hospitalized) and was later vaccinated (with no issues).

 

[AustinC]

I know a couple who have died of covid, a relative (20 years old) who is having severe issues following covid, a friend's daughter (24 years old) who had a stroke from covid, a few church members who died of covid.....so I do have opinions about the seriousness of the virus.

But it is strange. A coworker of my wife lost her husband from covid. He was in his mid 30's and healthy. She had covid and had no issues. We've have children in our community in critical care due to covid. But a 91 year old friend recovered (he didn't have an easy time at all, but wasn't hospitalized) and was later vaccinated (with no issues).

What I take from this is that we can do our best to remain healthy, but God holds our life and death in his hands.
May each person make the decision s/he considers best and then entrust that decision to God.

 

[JonC]

What I take from this is that we can do our best to remain healthy, but God holds our life and death in his hands.
May each person make the decision s/he considers best and then entrust that decision to God.

Yes. I believe it is that simple.

“My religious beliefs teach me to feel as safe in battle as in bed. God has fixed the time of my death. I do not concern myself with that, but to be always ready whenever it may overtake me. That is the way all men should live, and all men would be equally brave.” - Stonewall Jackson

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

It all depends on sources....whose conclusions to believe and whose to discount.

If you're referring to my post, the information came from the scientists who developed the vaccines. If you don't trust them, then I guess we agree on something.

 

[JonC]

If you're referring to my post, the information came from the scientists who developed the vaccines. If you don't trust them, then I guess we agree on something.

I do not trust them.

Why do you believe the information you posted is correct if you do not trust the source?