Republican War on Women and Workers

[billwald]

>I notice that no one addresses the subject of equal pay for the same work. Just crying and trying to avoid the subject I guess.

This is only a problem in scab shops. The solution is a union contract.

 

[seekingthetruth]

>I notice that no one addresses the subject of equal pay for the same work. Just crying and trying to avoid the subject I guess.

This is only a problem in scab shops. The solution is a union contract.

But the union forces a new man to work harder and produce twice as much as a 20 year man, but yet they pay the new man half as much.

If the new man does just as much as the 20 year man then shouldnt the new man get equal pay as well?

Besides, the unions are killing jobs here in the US and driving them overseas. Just ask the thousands of laid off UAW workers in Detroit.

Unions are not a good example for this argument at all.

John

 

[Crabtownboy]

And further, where are these women who get paid less for equal work? Name me a job or a woman that is discriminated against. i keep hearing this but have never seen it myself.

John,

check these articles for your answer ...........

CEO, pharmacist and lawyer are among the 10 most lucrative job titles for women, according to the study released Tuesday by the Institute for Women's Policy Research. But while women in those positions earned median pay topping $100,000 a year, that was just about 75% of what men with the same job titles earned.

http://money.cnn.com/2010/04/20/news/economy/highest_paying_jobs_for_women/

According to General Accountability Office (GAO) Report GAO-04-35, the weekly earnings of full-time working women were about three-fourths of men's during 2001. The report was prepared from a study of the earnings history of over 9,300 Americans for the last 18 years.
http://usgovinfo.about.com/cs/censusstatistic/a/womenspay.htm

Even Republican governors are guilty............

aho Agriculture Director Celia Gould has been with Gov. Butch Otter from the first day of his administration in 2007, having been a leading figure in his campaign and a respected former legislator.

She is the highest-paid of the women in Otter’s Cabinet but ranks just 16th among all top full-time officials. The median salary for 11 women in the Cabinet is $85,446; the median for the 33 men is $103,002.

Read more here: http://www.idahostatesman.com/2012/...rs-cabinet-women-make-less.html#storylink=cpy

In 2009 the median income of FTYR workers was $47,127 for men, compared to $36,278 for women. The female-to-male earnings ratio was 0.77, not statistically different from the 2008 ratio.[2] The female-to-male earnings ratio of 0.77 means that, in 2009, female FTYR workers earned 23% less than male FTYR workers. The statistic does not take into account differences in experience, skill, occupation, education or hours worked, as long as it qualifies as full-time work. However, in 2010, an economist testified to the U.S. Congress Joint Economic Committee that studies "always find that some portion of the wage gap is unexplained" even after controlling for measurable factors that are assumed to influence earnings.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male–female_income_disparity_in_the_United_States

Like I ask before, John, what world do you live in not to know this? This is very wide spread knowledge and has been all my life.

 

[billwald]

>Like when a union member working on the assembly line is paid more than the guy working right next to him doing the exact same job - just because he has worked there longer?

I have no problem with lower pay for new hires. I have no problem with a seniority at lay-off time. I didn't have a problem with it when I was a new hire on any job I had.

Case law in Washington State treats state pensions as deferred comp. A pension provision can't be changed without the new provisions having equal value. So PERS1 has a better retirement than PERS2 which has a better retirement than PERS3. As a Libertarian, I have no problem with this scheme. I knew what I was promised when I hired on. The new guy knows what he was promised when he hired on. It should be the goal of the union to improve the new guy's pension without stealing from the old guy.

 

[billwald]

>But the union forces a new man to work harder and produce twice as much as a 20 year man

I have never observed this. The only inequality I see is in medical benefits. My partner had ten years on me but never married. I had a wife and 5 kids. My medical benefits were worth at least twice his. I propose that every employee receive the same dollar value of medical and once every year he then declares how his medical benefits are divided between he and his dependents. If he wants to declare his postal carrier as a dependent, no business of mine.

 

[targus]

What all these surveys of pay differences between men and women ignore is the fact that many women take themselves out to the workforce for a period of time to have children.

That effectively gives them less experience and less seniority.

So it is a natural consequence that they would make less.

Also the surveys can't measure the differences in productivity, effectiveness, etc. between the men and the women in the study.

Crabby has no knowledge of what he is talking about - yet again.

 

[seekingthetruth]

>But the union forces a new man to work harder and produce twice as much as a 20 year man

I have never observed this. The only inequality I see is in medical benefits. My partner had ten years on me but never married. I had a wife and 5 kids. My medical benefits were worth at least twice his. I propose that every employee receive the same dollar value of medical and once every year he then declares how his medical benefits are divided between he and his dependents. If he wants to declare his postal carrier as a dependent, no business of mine.

Which would make already overpriced union products cost the consumer even more, killing sales, and making even more union companies move overseas.

Yeah, thats what they should do.

Two things that union people just cannot understand are:

The company belongs to the owners/shareholders....not the workers.

And, having a job is a priviledge, not a right.

Unions extort company profits until they squeeze them dry, and then they draw unemployment for a year after they force themselves out of a job.

All unions should be outlawed. At one time in our history unions were needed because we didnt have worker's protection laws. But now we do, so let's get rid of the greedy unions and their mafia leaders.

John

 

[seekingthetruth]

What all these surveys of pay differences between men and women ignore is the fact that many women take themselves out to the workforce for a period of time to have children.

That effectively gives them less experience and less seniority.

So it is a natural consequence that they would make less.

Also the surveys can't measure the differences in productivity, effectiveness, etc. between the men and the women in the study.

Crabby has no knowledge of what he is talking about - yet again.

I am a retired welder/fitter. I have seen a few women welders in my day, but none of them produced even half the finished products that the men did.

Just because a man and a woman hold the same position doesnt mean they do equal work.

John

 

[Bro. Curtis]

So, you believe that it is a right, an ethical thing to do, have people in the same job but not pay them equally. Would you like it if the lower paid person were you? You cried in the past about jobs going overseas to lower paid people. That fits you philosophy as you express it, or dance around it in this thread, pay as little as possible, especially to women and minorities.



So, the governor of Wisconsin has handed power back to the Federal government? Do you like that?

Why would I discuss ethics with someone as dishonest as you ? Because I straightened up some of your "facts", you have to make up an unsupportable fairy tale that I treat people badly based on race & gender. You really are a disgusting person.

I merely praised the governor for not wasting taxpayer's money.

 

[Crabtownboy]

Why would I discuss ethis with someone as dishonest as you ? I merely praised the governor for not wasting taxpayer's money.

I take that as a, "I have no idea what ethics is all about." If you did you would discuss and not continually attempt to insult.

Now, stay with the subject. Why would women not believe the Republicans are at war with them?

And how can the Republicans convince women otherwise?

 

[Bro. Curtis]

I take that as a, "I have no idea what ethics is all about." If you did you would discuss and not continually attempt to insult.

Now, stay with the subject. Why would women not believe the Republicans are at war with them?

And how can the Republicans convince women otherwise?

Pound sand, Crabby. You don't get to define my position. Just put some words in my mouth, pat yerself on the back. That's all you do, anyway. I'll stay with the facts.

The facts are, this bill would have done nothing more than give Wisconsin the added burden of prosecuting a crime in which the feds already have jurisdiction.

 

[Crabtownboy]

Pound sand, Crabby. You don't get to define my position. Just put some words in my mouth, pat yerself on the back. That's all you do, anyway. I'll stay with the facts.

The facts are, this bill would have done nothing more than give Wisconsin the added burden of prosecuting a crime in which the feds already have jurisdiction.

Do you support the federal law on equal pay and worker discrimination?

 

[seekingthetruth]

Do you support the federal law on equal pay and worker discrimination?

I support equal pay for equal work no matter what the gender of the worker is.

However, equal pay for equal position is just wrong. Even if it is two men holding the same position, the one that is more productive deserves more money.

Again, in my years of working as a fitter/welder I have encounted a few female welders, and not one of them had the physical ability to produce more than half the work that the men did.

So, if anyone can't be as productive as the average, then they don't deserve equal pay, no matter what their gender is.

John

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Do you support the federal law on equal pay and worker discrimination?

You have already claimed I don't. Why are you asking me, now ?

 

[Crabtownboy]

Republican Senator Lisa Mukowski disagrees with the apologists on this board .............

It makes no sense to make this attack on women,” she said. “If you don’t feel this is an attack, you need to go home and talk to your wife and your daughters.”

http://peninsulaclarion.com/news/2012-04-07/rhetoric-frustrates-senator-murkowski-visits-homer

In fact, she is the 3rd Republican senator to say, enough already.

The men in the Republican Party may not think they’re fighting a “war on women,” but its female senators certainly do. Yesterday, Sen. Lisa Murkowski (R-AK) joined Sens. Olympia Snowe (R-ME) and Kay Bailey Hutchison in criticizing the GOP’s push for legislation to restrict access to contraception and other basic health care services.

http://thinkprogress.org/health/201...lican-senator-to-criticize-gops-war-on-women/

Republican men, revisiting the past and destroying their future.

 

[Salty]

Repub
The men in the Republican Party may not think they’re fighting a “war on women,” but its female senators certainly do. Yesterday, Sen. Lisa Murkowski (R-AK) joined Sens. Olympia Snowe (R-ME) and Kay Bailey Hutchison in criticizing the GOP’s push for legislation to restrict access to contraception and other basic health care services.

Please give me a link to where Congress is prohibiting women from getting health care.

Now if you are talking about who will pay for it - that is another story.

The only possible "health care" that would be restricted would be abortion. In fact, we should consider abortion being legal up to 3 months after the baby is born.

 

[targus]

All three of these Republican women that Crabby is holding out has his gold standard...

Support abortion...

Want my Federal tax dollars to pay for abortion...

And think that churches should pay for abortive/contraceptive drugs against their beliefs.

Crabby appears to be fighting his own little "war against life" here on the board.

 

[Crabtownboy]

Please give me a link to where Congress is prohibiting women from getting health care.

Now if you are talking about who will pay for it - that is another story.

The only possible "health care" that would be restricted would be abortion. In fact, we should consider abortion being legal up to 3 months after the baby is born.

Salty, the subject is not about health care but the perception that Republicans are fighting a war against women. The question is what can Republicans do to change this growing perception.

When women Republican senators are agreeing that this perception is growing and will impact the fall elections it would seem that men should pay some attention and change their rhetoric and their proposed legislation.

Republicans cannot win a national election without the vote of women and Hispanics ... two groups they have are are alienating.

 

[mandym]

Salty, the subject is not about health care but the perception that Republicans are fighting a war against women. The question is what can Republicans do to change this growing perception.

Nothing, it is a fabricated issue made for election year. This is not a grassroots perception. It was fabricated and repeated by the political left and their cronies in the mainstream media to convince people.

 

[targus]

So how is the Democrat imaginary war on women going?

Not so good.

"A recent CBS-New York Times poll reveals that Americans oppose government mandated employer provided insurance that provides birth control when the employer has moral objections — the administration’s current campaign centerpiece — 51 percent to 40 percent. And that jumps to a 57 percent to 36 percent majority when we’re talking about religiously affiliated employers.

The same poll shows the president’s approval rating has sunk to a new all-time low of 41 percent. Looks like voters aren’t all that excited about government-mandated free contraceptives for everyone.

The Democrat’s “war on women” is attracting a lot of attention, but it doesn’t seem to be gaining any traction."

http://normantranscript.com/opinion/x1968911038/-War-on-women-was-created-by-Democrats