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Researching apostles...
- Thread starter awaken
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Love how you continue to not address Eph. 4...
We already have!
the offices of Apostles and prophets not in the Church today!
other 3 offices still are...
WHO do you consider as beither a current Apostle/prophet?
NO you have ignored...After he ascended he sent gifts! Apostles being one of them!We already have!
the offices of Apostles and prophets not in the Church today!
other 3 offices still are...
WHO do you consider as beither a current Apostle/prophet?
Eph. tells you when those gifts will end..with the word til (until)... no one has proven we have reached that in this age!
NO you have ignored...After he ascended he sent gifts! Apostles being one of them!
Eph. tells you when those gifts will end..with the word til (until)... no one has proven we have reached that in this age!
What is more perfect for equpping the saints, for giving us the mind of the lord than His completed Word, the bible?
Eph. does not say until the Bible is complete! It says UNTIL...What is more perfect for equpping the saints, for giving us the mind of the lord than His completed Word, the bible?
We ALL come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a PERFECT man, unto the measure of teh stature of the FULLNESS of Christ!
Eph. does not say until the Bible is complete! It says UNTIL...
We ALL come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a PERFECT man, unto the measure of teh stature of the FULLNESS of Christ!
we already have all of that whenever we walk in the Spirit, and pay heed to the scriptures, do we not?
Thomas Helwys
New Member
NO you have ignored...After he ascended he sent gifts! Apostles being one of them!
Eph. tells you when those gifts will end..with the word til (until)... no one has proven we have reached that in this age!
Why are you in such a frenzy to find support for modern-day apostles? Are you trying to build a system to believe in, something to further support the doctrine invented by Charles Parham and William Seymour?
It never fails...those that can not address the scriptures fall back on personal attacks!Why are you in such a frenzy to find support for modern-day apostles? Are you trying to build a system to believe in, something to further support the doctrine invented by Charles Parham and William Seymour?
No, My search is to know what I was taught is scriptural! It is amazing the doctrines I was taught growing up was way off base!
Do we? Are we a perfct man? to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ? Are we in the unity of the Faith?we already have all of that whenever we walk in the Spirit, and pay heed to the scriptures, do we not?
Thomas Helwys
New Member
It never fails...those that can not address the scriptures fall back on personal attacks!
No, My search is to know what I was taught is scriptural! It is amazing the doctrines I was taught growing up was way off base!
No personal attack. I asked legitimate questions.
And it never fails with you, that you post falsehoods. I have addressed the scriptures as much or more than anyone here. So, you have lied, and you know it, and so does everyone else.
You act as if you think there was no true church until 1900 when Parham and Seymour invented their doctrines. According to you, church history is only 213 years old -- the first century church, and then the church from 1900 till now!
I have explained the verse to you many times. But you don't want to listen nor do you like my answers. So you just keep asking the same question over and over again. Why should I answer it when I already have.Do we? Are we a perfct man? to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ? Are we in the unity of the Faith?
Let me answer you above questions in this manner.
My church has. Sorry if yours hasn't.
Remember those verses were written to a local assembly.
There is no such thing as a universal church. You don't seem to get that idea.
Also the word perfect, teleios, simply means "mature" or "complete."
I am complete in Christ.
No personal attack. I asked legitimate questions.
And it never fails with you, that you post falsehoods. I have addressed the scriptures as much or more than anyone here. So, you have lied, and you know it, and so does everyone else.
You act as if you think there was no true church until 1900 when Parham and Seymour invented their doctrines. According to you, church history is only 213 years old -- the first century church, and then the church from 1900 till now!
Awaken sounds like either one into Kingdom now of Bishop paulk, or else the latter day rain movement, that even the AoG views as being heretical!
So are you saying those in Eph. were not complete? Did they not receive the same salvation? Why would they need them and we do not? Look around...just on this board alone...THERE IS NO UNITY!I have explained the verse to you many times. But you don't want to listen nor do you like my answers. So you just keep asking the same question over and over again. Why should I answer it when I already have.
Let me answer you above questions in this manner.
My church has. Sorry if yours hasn't.
Remember those verses were written to a local assembly.
There is no such thing as a universal church. You don't seem to get that idea.
Also the word perfect, teleios, simply means "mature" or "complete."
I am complete in Christ.
I have no idea who Parham or Seymour are!No personal attack. I asked legitimate questions.
And it never fails with you, that you post falsehoods. I have addressed the scriptures as much or more than anyone here. So, you have lied, and you know it, and so does everyone else.
You act as if you think there was no true church until 1900 when Parham and Seymour invented their doctrines. According to you, church history is only 213 years old -- the first century church, and then the church from 1900 till now!
What post # did you answer the questions..
Are we in unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God?
Are we a mature man/church...unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ?
Thomas Helwys
New Member
I have no idea who Parham or Seymour are!
What post # did you answer the questions..
Are we in unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God?
Are we a mature man/church...unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ?
Let me make something clear to you before we go any further. You had at least a partial ally in me, as my position is somewhere between you and DHK, being that I am not a cessationist. But that was lost when you started and continued misrepresenting my posts.
I believe that all the gifts may be for today, but the tongues-talk that is going on in Charismatic/Pentecostal churches is almost all fake. In other words, it is glossolalia, not xenoglossy, or real languages.
This board is not a church. And if you were to apply for membership at our church you would have to agree with both constitution and statement of faith. You don't. You would not be able to become a member of our church. Because we are agreed in doctrine we have unity of faith.So are you saying those in Eph. were not complete? Did they not receive the same salvation? Why would they need them and we do not? Look around...just on this board alone...THERE IS NO UNITY!
Hindsight is better than foresight.
We have the completed word of God and have had it for 2,000 years.
They had the apostles and prophets to help guide them in those matters which they did not have yet written down and made available to them. Unity of doctrine was much more difficult when they didn't have the complete revelation of God. That was one of the purposes of the Apostles--to provide that revelation.
Nowadays it is the duty of the church, with its teachers and pastors to do the same thing. In our society evangelists play a somewhat minor role, but they do have a role.
Your problem is that you fail to look at both historical context and even the context of the passage and book. Context is important.
You fail to prove that any church is in unity! You are only fooling yourself if you think there is unity in most churches today! Why??? Because they have kicked out the apostles and prophets! Study what they did in the church and tell me we do not need them!This board is not a church. And if you were to apply for membership at our church you would have to agree with both constitution and statement of faith. You don't. You would not be able to become a member of our church. Because we are agreed in doctrine we have unity of faith.
Hindsight is better than foresight.
We have the completed word of God and have had it for 2,000 years.
They had the apostles and prophets to help guide them in those matters which they did not have yet written down and made available to them. Unity of doctrine was much more difficult when they didn't have the complete revelation of God. That was one of the purposes of the Apostles--to provide that revelation.
Nowadays it is the duty of the church, with its teachers and pastors to do the same thing. In our society evangelists play a somewhat minor role, but they do have a role.
Your problem is that you fail to look at both historical context and even the context of the passage and book. Context is important.
I did not misrepresent your post! When I read a post and reply back..I am sharing what I got out of that post. If I did not understand your post make it clear WITHOUT the name calling and ridicule.Let me make something clear to you before we go any further. You had at least a partial ally in me, as my position is somewhere between you and DHK, being that I am not a cessationist. But that was lost when you started and continued misrepresenting my posts.
I believe that all the gifts may be for today, but the tongues-talk that is going on in Charismatic/Pentecostal churches is almost all fake. In other words, it is glossolalia, not xenoglossy, or real languages.
I am not looking for allies! I am looking for truth!
I am sorry you have witnessed the wrong manifestation of tongues, but just because there are fakes...does not prove the real is not out there!
Again...I am not in a Pentecostal church! I know little about their doctrines! What I am sharing is what I see in scriptures!
I don't have to prove anything about any church. If you have looked at my profile you would know that I go to an Independent Fundamental Baptist Church. Let me spell that out to you.You fail to prove that any church is in unity! You are only fooling yourself if you think there is unity in most churches today! Why??? Because they have kicked out the apostles and prophets! Study what they did in the church and tell me we do not need them!
We are independent. That means we don't belong to any denomination, association, etc. We are completely independent of others.
We are fundamental. We hold to the fundamentals of the faith and are strongly opposed to all kinds of error such as the Charismatic movement and the ecumenical movement.
We are Baptist and hold to the historic Baptist distinctives.
As such we have a statement of faith that reflects all of the above.
We are united in our doctrine because we have been taught well.
Now, I know that any church that is Charismatic and believes the gifts are for today is bound to be confused in doctrine and a fairly chaotic church. They don't know where they are going or where they have been. So you probably don't know what a unified church is. That is what you seem to be saying.
But you don't have to deny my testimony in saying that we have a church that is unified in doctrine. In fact I know others that would give the same testimony. It is sad that you cannot.
The apostles were given to edify the saints...we still need that!I don't have to prove anything about any church. If you have looked at my profile you would know that I go to an Independent Fundamental Baptist Church. Let me spell that out to you.
We are independent. That means we don't belong to any denomination, association, etc. We are completely independent of others.
We are fundamental. We hold to the fundamentals of the faith and are strongly opposed to all kinds of error such as the Charismatic movement and the ecumenical movement.
We are Baptist and hold to the historic Baptist distinctives.
As such we have a statement of faith that reflects all of the above.
We are united in our doctrine because we have been taught well.
Now, I know that any church that is Charismatic and believes the gifts are for today is bound to be confused in doctrine and a fairly chaotic church. They don't know where they are going or where they have been. So you probably don't know what a unified church is. That is what you seem to be saying.
But you don't have to deny my testimony in saying that we have a church that is unified in doctrine. In fact I know others that would give the same testimony. It is sad that you cannot.
work of the ministry....we still need that!
Perfecting of the saints...we are not perfect/ mature yet!
They will be here until we ALL come in the unity of the FAITH!
Are you a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ? NO! We will not be there as an individual or a church until he returns!