Response to [member's names not allowed in thread title] on Partial Preterism

[prophecy70]

And then tell me, how many second comings are they.....the rapture? then the second coming ,then the earthly kingdom? But in revelations 20:4-11 Jesus is in heaven....


4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God.

Futurism is the great escalator of the coming of Christ.....


2nd peter 3:10
But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare.

Doesn't sound like to much happens after the second coming.... unless a 1000 years fits somehow in that verse....

 

[prophecy70]

The second coming is still yet future, so why would there not be future prophecy yet to be fulfilled?

What has to be fulfilled yet? Besides the Second coming?

 

[kyredneck]

The second coming

Where in scripture is that phrase 'second coming' coined? (I know, but do you?)

 

[Yeshua1]

What has to be fulfilled yet? Besides the Second coming?

Yep, Israel back in land as a spiritual nation to God, Antichrist, World wide apostasy and those threats Jesus listed for end times!

 

[Yeshua1]

Where in scripture is that phrase 'second coming' coined? (I know, but do you?)

Several , as almost all of the writers wrote down that it was still yet to come, many of them after AD 70!

 

[prophecy70]

Im not even sure, I used to be a full on "Left Behind" Futurist until, reality started sinking in.... I know if a million people disappeared one day, I don't think life would be normal after that, and people would be getting married and go one having a normal life.... I'm here to learn though, people without my views, and people with..

 

[Yeshua1]

Im not even sure, I used to be a full on "Left Behind" Futurist until, reality started sinking in.... I know if a million people disappeared one day, I don't think life would be normal after that, and people would be getting married and go one having a normal life.... I'm here to learn though, people without my views, and people with..

I am a historical premil so the rapture to me is the Second Coming event!

 

[Covenanter]

No they did not, They did not yet believe he was leaving, if they doubted his death and resurrection until it happened, why would they ask about a SECOND coming when they didn't know he was leaving to heaven?

I believe the they were mistaken thinking the fall of the temple was the "end of the world/age" and in verse 36 he corrects them without explaining to them and he may be talking about the end of the world. He gives all these events leading up the AD 70,but in verse 36 he says BUT OF THAT DAY.......what day? "end of the world", know one knows, there won't be any signs, any warning, no tribulation no antichrist, nothing, matthew 24:38
For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

I highly doubt people are all going to turn stupid and life will be normal, if a beast is ruling as GOD in the middle east, and there are bowls of wrath falling from the sky.... come on, if that was all happening, wouldn't you say....wow something must be happening....

Futurists quote the Apostles questions as if the Apostles understood the situation, BUT if they did understand, why ask the questions?

Would their understanding of the end of the world/age be that Jesus would destroy the temple he has already denounced as a robbers' den, expel the Priests & Pharisees who opposed him & set himself up as King-Messiah. See their question in Acts 1:6 & their disappointment at a failed Redeemer in Luke 24:21

I see a divide in Mat. 24 between vs 34 & 35 with 34 concluding his prophecy of the destruction, with the warnings about the signs indicating when to flee the city, & 35 beginning general advice about living in a world that will be destroyed without prior warning signs.

We need to be faithful & wise, watching & praying.

 

[kyredneck]

Where in scripture is that phrase 'second coming' coined? (I know, but do you?)

Several , as almost all of the writers wrote down that it was still yet to come, many of them after AD 70!

Reread the question, WHERE IN SCRIPTURE is that phrase 'second coming' coined? (I know, but do you?)

You have a real problem with 'WHERE IN SCRIPTURE', don't you?

 

[prophecy70]

Yep, Israel back in land as a spiritual nation to God, Antichrist, World wide apostasy and those threats Jesus listed for end times!

What antichrist? Didn't Jesus say there was MANY antichrists, was Hitler not one? Israel coming back to God? The Israel you see today?

Ok so the rapture is the Second coming, then there is a third coming at judgment?

 

[prophecy70]

I see a divide in Mat. 24 between vs 34 & 35 with 34 concluding his prophecy of the destruction, with the warnings about the signs indicating when to flee the city, & 35 beginning general advice about living in a world that will be destroyed without prior warning signs

Exactly!!!! The world will be destroyed on the LAST DAY, no warning signs, on a day no one knows. Before that he tells them what they will expect because the fall of the temple will happen in their generation, they will know what to watch for.

 

[Yeshua1]

Reread the question, WHERE IN SCRIPTURE is that phrase 'second coming' coined? (I know, but do you?)

You have a real problem with 'WHERE IN SCRIPTURE', don't you?

Not really, as Peter looked forward to the coming of our great God and Savior Jesus
John saw the Second Coming, as when we shall be as he now is
Paul, the Coming of the Lord with His saints, correct?

 

[Yeshua1]

Exactly!!!! The world will be destroyed on the LAST DAY, no warning signs, on a day no one knows. Before that he tells them what they will expect because the fall of the temple will happen in their generation, they will know what to watch for.

The Second Cominghas not happened yet, correct?

 

[prophecy70]

The "Second coming" to me is the Last day, the day of Judgment. There are many "comings" of God... Look at the old testament,
Genesis 18:21
Genesis 11:5
Isaiah 66:15
ECT..... Many

Just like there is Many "days of the lord" Pentecost was "the day of the lord"

But the final coming " the "SECOND" Coming per se.... is the day of Judgment...

 

[prophecy70]

Evidently, it does, during the millenium.

The temple the Jews are now planning to build will likely be built according to the "blueprint" of the past temples, it won't really be a "temple of God' because JESUS is not in the formula. However, I doubt if most of the world will see it that way.

Not only will Zeke's temple be far-larger, the context of the surrounding Scriptures shows this will be in millenial times, with idyllic conditions, etc.

The Second Cominghas not happened yet, correct?

Robycop3, You say here in the Millennium, but then you say its for the antichrist?

Ezekiel says that “the prince” will offer a sin offering “for himself and for all the people” (45:22).


Who is the prince then?

 

[robycop3]

Im new here, But my goodness, Robycop you can't argue futurism. Matthew 24 is about the fall of jerusalem in AD 70.

Yes, but that's only PART of it. no one argues those events haven't happened.

I don't see how the Disciples were asking about his second coming, if they didn't even know he was leaving yet. You pull fantasy out of thin air to throw an imaginary antichrist, and this 7 year Tribulation into this chapter.

The disciples asked Jesus several questions at once:
Matt. 24:3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

So, they most certainlt DID know He would be departing and returning. The antichrist was prophesied by Daniel,(Daniel 9) Paul,(2 Thess. 2) and Jesus in the Revelation.(Rev. 13)

You can't get that Idea from just the Bible. I have more faith then you do, because Jesus was CORRECT in what he said, this generation will not pass until this happens....What happens? When not one stone is still standing, it happened in THAT generation.

But did the great trib come? How about the "abomination of desolation", where the 'beast' sits in the temple & declares himself to be God? And certainly, there was no glorious returna Jesus, SEEN BY ALL.

"The beast has not yet come, nor the great trib nor the other eschatological events accompanying the beast. That's a simple matter of FACT AND REALITY".....Funny they didn't know about this until the 1800s when this idea started. Are you going to be the first one to hide in the mountains of Judea when this "great tribulation" happens? You know what happened during the fall of Jerusalem? The christians escaped and hid the mountains of Judea....... Funny how history has a weird thing of proving this chapter right.

The CHAPTER isn't wrong; MAN'S PRIVATE INTERPS of it are wrong. Jesus' prophecies are very-literal. They MUST cometa pass exactly as originally written, to the letter. Had they already cometa pass, you should be able to:

Name the "beast" 7 his deputy, the false prophet.

Describe the events of the great trib.

Describe the marka the beast.

And explain why Jesus is so-long overdue when He said He'd return IMMEDIATELY AFTER the great trib!

Sir, I believe you have the prophesied "days of vengeance" against the Jews that jesus had prophesied earlier, confused with the events surrounding His return. The destruction of J & the temple were the culminating events of the days of vengeance, but the Jews suffered a much-greater punishment for their rejection & murder of Jesus, beginning 135-136 AD, a coupla generations later, with their being booted from their land by Hadrian & Co. That punishment lasted into 1945, only beginning to end when the nazis fell.

But the great eschatological events jesus prophesied are yet to occur. That's COMMON SENSE!

 

[robycop3]

Lol, bingo! Robycop loves the sensationalism of Dispensationalism.



Amen! and Amen! You believe Christ's words concerning His imminent return, but not the sensationalists like robycop that insist that Christ's words such as "must shortly come to pass", or "the time is at hand", or "I come quickly", etc., means thousands of years and still waiting.

Excellent post brother.

OK, SHOW US when those things happened!

 

[robycop3]

Robycop3, You say here in the Millennium, but then you say its for the antichrist?

Ezekiel says that “the prince” will offer a sin offering “for himself and for all the people” (45:22).


Who is the prince then?

I don't know who THIS prince will be, but it won't be Jesus, as He will be KING.

 

[robycop3]

Welcome to the forum. The problem is:
do we believe in the fulfilment of prophecy as guided by the inspired New Covenant writers
or
do we insist on literal interpretation (fulfilment) of old covenant prophecy independently of the New.

Actually, it means "Do we believe the Bible LITERALLY, or not?"

Outta time now - Catch y'all later!

 

[prophecy70]

The disciples asked Jesus several questions at once:
Matt. 24:3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

So, they most certainlt DID know He would be departing and returning. The antichrist was prophesied by Daniel,(Daniel 9) Paul,(2 Thess. 2) and Jesus in the Revelation.(Rev. 13)

But did the great trib come? How about the "abomination of desolation", where the 'beast' sits in the temple & declares himself to be God? And certainly, there was no glorious returna Jesus, SEEN BY ALL.

No actually they didn't know. Jesus told them prior he was to die and they questioned it,

22 Now while they were staying in Galilee, Jesus said to them, “The Son of Man is about to be betrayed into the hands of men, 23 and they will kill Him, and the third day He will be raised up.” And they were exceedingly sorrowful.

He predicted it 3 times that he was to rise, and they still doubted it after! And you believe they understood he was to die comeback alive and then leave and comeback?


The Antichrist is NOT predicted in Daniel, That is a very vague explanation of the 70 weeks, 69 weeks consecutively and then a 2400 hundred year gap and counting for the 70th week, your whole logic gets very flawed there.

The abomination of desolation is explained in Luke 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

Matthew was written to Jews, Luke to Gentiles, they didn't know the Jewish idioms, so Luke clarified it.

Why would it matter if the antichrist was in the temple, that people people fled to the mountains?

Prior to the destruction of Jerusalem the temple became a gathering place for wicked men. Jesus instructs the disciples that when they see such "abomination of desolation" they were to "flee to the mountains." This passage does not refer in any way to some future return of our Lord. When this "abomination of desolation" took place, those in "Judea" were to flee to the mountains.
Read some history books...
'Certainly, it had been good for me to die before I had seen the house of God full of so many abominations, or these sacred places that ought not to be trodden upon at random, filled with the feet of these bloodshedding villains'" (The Wars Of The Jews, 4:3:10).
...before sun-setting, chariots and troops of soldiers in their armor were seen running about among the clouds, and surrounding of cities.Jewish historian Josephus in Jewish Wars, 6.5.3 (
There had been seen hosts joining battle in the skies, the fiery gleam of arms, the temple illuminated by a sudden radiance from the clouds. Roman historian Tacitus in The History, 5.13 (

The great tribulation?

Jesus warned His disciples that when the Roman army arrived, those in Judea should flee to the mountains and "let him who is on the housetop not come down to take anything out of his house. And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. But woe to those who are pregnant and to those with nursing babies in those days! And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath....

What would it matter what day of the week its on if it was the end of the world???????

Learn some history before, saying I can't explain this, it must be in the future yet.....