SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
do as you please!
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Restrictions on tongues
- Thread starter rlvaughn
- Start date
do as you please!
Rhyming noises are not languages.
I post in tongues
..kokomo mo sheiki. Rondo co bo ba .
It is a secret language that Satan cannot understand.Problem is no one else understands it.
Now what is rubbish is your lack of understanding of the issue of sign gifts ,Apostolic Uniqueness , and all related areas.
Maybe the real answer is that they are following deluding spirits, and teaching doctrines of demons?
My family has experienced God healing people.
It was answer to prayer, not sign gifts.
Writer of Hebrews said the the signs and wonders were done by the Apostles of the Lord Jesus, past tense!
Not even God can understand non existent tongue!
37818
Well-Known Member
It is not about what either you or I please. You made your view on the textual issue clear.
The Vulgate has the "brothers" reading, but checking this the old Latin has the "disciples" reading.
This thread has sort of gone out the rails as a referendum on whether or not tongues are for today. However, my primary question was on the point of Baxter about 1 Corinthians 14:13, “Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.” Does is not make sense that a sincere believer speaking in tongues (whether you want it to be in Paul's day or today) and following the admonition of Paul would eventually come to pray just for the interpretation and skip the unnecessary step of tongues that do not edify until they are interpreted?
In practical terms this seems to mean that you will keep asserting what you believe and not discuss any texts of scripture. Here are some of the relevant scriptures, by themselves, without interpretation. What will you do with them?
1 Corinthians 14:5,26 I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying...How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.
I would like every one of you to speak in tongues, but I would rather have you prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that the church may be edified...What then shall we say, brothers and sisters? When you come together, each of you has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. Everything must be done so that the church may be built up.
1 Corinthians 14:5,13,28 ...speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying...Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret...But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.
...one who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that the church may be edified...For this reason the one who speaks in a tongue should pray that they may interpret what they say...If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and to God.
1 Corinthians 14:27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret.
1 Corinthians 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
If anyone thinks they are a prophet or otherwise gifted by the Spirit, let them acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord’s command.
1 Corinthians 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.
Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.
(I have given alternate translation, since you've suggested you might not prefer the KJV.)
37818
Well-Known Member
1 Corinthians 13:8-10, ". . . but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. . . ."
In verse 8 it can be understood that two speaking gifts, gifts of prophecies and word of knowlege will be done away.
In verse 9 it can be understood that two speaking gifts are only in part. Which can be understood to be prophecies and word of knowledge.
In verse 10, it speaks of a perfect to come. And when that perfect is come a what is in part will be done away.
In James 1:17 gifts are said to be good and perfect.
So it being understood that the written word of God is perfect, it has been interpreted that with close of the written word of God with the book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ, Revlation 1:1, the perfect word of knowldge and perfect gifts of prophecies was so given.
Revelation 22:18 prohibits added revelation to the hearing of it. And so can be understood to be the close of all written revelation. All revelation being about our Lord Jesus Christ, Revelation 19:10, Luke 24:44. And so can be interpreted to be for the churches the perfect spoken of in 1 Corinthians 13:8-10.
Now the value of the gifts of tongues are their interpretation per 1 Corinthains 14:6. The interpretation being with the doing away with the spoken gifts of prophecies and the spoke word of knowledge that tongues would cease per 1 Corinthains 13:8-10.
Last edited:
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
so where exactly does it say that the Gift of Tongues will be ceased by God?
37818
Well-Known Member
You evidently did not read carefully 1 Corinthians 13:8-10.
". . . whether there be tongues, they shall cease; . . ." And as to when is as I stated is an interpretation of 1 Corinthians 13:8-10 the perfect being in place of what is in part. Noting the gifts are good and perfect per James 1:17. Not being said to be in part as in 1 Corinthians 13:9-10.
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
yeah, I read very carefully! The answer lies in verse 10, "But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away", which is no doubt the Second Coming of Jesus!
37818
Well-Known Member
That is a popular interpretation. One problem being Jesus Christ Himself is not a "that." And what might truely be interpreted as a that which is perfect does not occur until after the Judgement, being the new heaven and Earth.
That very Greek word translated "perfect" in 1 Corinthians 13:10 is the very word James uses in James 1:17 regarding gifts as well as James 1:25 the word of God. That very term is no where used of Christ or His second appearing. The closest to that term to refer to Christ being perfect is used in Hebrews 7:28, ". . . the Son, who is consecrated for evermore." τετελειωμενον. 1 Corinthians 13:10, James 1:17, τελειον.
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
why, have you not read 1 John 1:1? "Ὃ ἦν ἀπ' ἀρχῆς, ὃ ἀκηκόαμεν, ὁ ἑωράκαμεν τοῖς ὀφθαλμοῖς ἡμῶν, ὃ ἐθεασάμεθα καὶ αἱ χεῖρες ἡμῶν ἐψηλάφησαν περὶ τοῦ λόγου τῆς ζωῆς", literally, "That which was from the beginning, that which we have heard, that which we have seen with our eyes, that which we did behold, and our hands did handle, concerning the Word of the Life". Here in the neuter for Jesus Christ!
37818
Well-Known Member
Where in the text of Acts 2 is 'the 120' mentioned? I see only '12' in Acts 2:
14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven.....
In fact, where in all the scripture is that phrase 'the 120' to be found?
'The 120' is like 'strange fire' to me.
There is no "the 120" if you take it literally. It is just shorthand for the group of disciples in Acts 1:15 -- the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty. If you follow the pronouns forward from there it is "us" and "they," "And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place" (that is, the same they who were in accord in Acts 1:14-15). However, whether the "they" is the number of about 120 or just the 12, whoever the "they" are, they are those who were filled with the Holy Ghost and spoke in tongues -- not the whole crowd of people present.
'120' w/the definite article 'the' kinda forces one to take it literally, don't you think?
Actually 'the multitude of about a hundred and twenty' weren't named, but those abiding in the house that the Spirit filled were named:
13 And when they were come in, they went up into the upper chamber, where they were abiding; both Peter and John and James and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon the Zealot, and Judas the son of James. Acts 1