Revelation: You are here...

[Nazaroo]

IN the Acts thread, Trevor responded:

I apologise that this has ended up in your Acts thread, so I will try to be brief. Another definition is “Continuous Historic” understanding of the Book of Revelation. The seven seals for example are the events that transpired to bring about the replacement of the Pagan Roman system with a nominally “Christian” Roman system. But the 7th seal then incorporates Seven Trumpets which commences another period, and then the 7th trumpet incorporates the 7 vials. My understanding is that we are in the 6th Vial period, just before the return of Christ and the battle of Armageddon Revelation 16.

Quote:
Its understandable that many prophecies in Revelation seemed so utterly fantastic to early Christians, that it was thought that they must be allegories or exaggerations, or whimsical interpretations of ordinary events in the early empire.

But now especially, we are finally coming to the point in history where
many of these predictions are being supported by new scientific discovery.
Scientists now admit for instance, that not only can a large comet or asteroid
hit the earth with the results described in Rev, but that we are overdue for a such a hit!
What Christian today can credibly argue that we should take such a prophecy
as if it were referencing a past unremarkable event, or an allegory,
when even atheist and agnostic scientists are saying its a literal probability?

Update your interpretations of Revelation man, smell the coffee before its too late.

peace
Nazaroo

I believe that the Book of Revelation depicts events by using symbols, and we need to be careful as to what we take literally and what is understood by symbols.

Kind regards
Trevor

I agree with you Trevor, that Revelation contains symbols.
And that care must be taken in interpreting the book, and that some interpretation is required.

By 'interpretation', here we primarily mean 'identification', that is connecting the symbols and figures of the book with real world events and entities around us.

That having been said, these issues have been raised 140 years ago or more, when people like Christopher Wordsworth noted that interpreters were inconsistent in handling symbols:

For instance, interpreters took the 'Harlot of Babylon' in an allegorical sense and applied it to the Roman Catholic Church, while they took the "Euphrates River' in the same sections of the book 'literally', as the actual river in Iraq.

Wordsworth's own view was that both examples were symbolic, or rather the use of known, recognized symbols with 'properties' , "Babylon" (= the future 'harlot' will be like Babylon was), and the "Euphrates" (= the commerce and corruption will be like the ancient Euphrates). He also held that since a crudely literal interpretation was impossible (Babylon had fallen already, the Euphrates was not the central trade route in Jesus' day), that all the symbols must be consistently interpreted symbolically.

There is some common sense to Wordsworth's criticisms regarding how Revelation was handled in his time.

I wonder if we are any better off really today. There is a wide variety of interpretations of Revelation, even among those who take it very literally, and apply it to today, as being the "Last Days" etc.

This is why I am exploring it freshly in the first place, looking for historical pieces that can plausibly and coherently fit the puzzle-picture portrayed in Revelation.

peace
Nazaroo

 

[quantumfaith]

Hey, let's not be too hard on Nazaroo. He's not really putting anybody down. The "Revelation for Dummies" thing is a takeoff on a series of books designed to simplify different things.

I have in my library a "Windows for Dummies" book from several years ago. Actually, it was quite valuable.

I Googled "..for Dummies" and here are some of the titles:

Podcasts for Dummies
Laptops for Dummies
Investing for Dummies.

And a bunch more.

So Nazaroo is not really putting anybody down. He's just using an imaginative way of making his point.

Great post. :thumbs:

 

[quantumfaith]

If I understand you correctly, then I don't believe you have read the whole Bible, or you believe in error.

Daniel was told to go his way, then much later it was opened again, revealing into eternity. It tells us what is happening today, in these last days. But That Day is not here. Ancient writtings informs us of the increasing knowledge of our day, and of trains, cars, planes, and travel into space.


But what are the most important things you are missing. The Great Tribulation cannot come while there are any members of the Body of Christ on the earth, in it, or the waters. How many of us will still be here alive? There are still things hidden in God. But John complements Daniel by informing of the 144,0o00 composed of 12,000 from each Tribe. Then the Great Commission will THEN be preached to the whole world by those of Israel, and no Gentile is included. Both of Books are in Prophecy.

But not so Noah before the flood, and neither can the Body of Christ be found in Prophecy. So we could in surmising say if there were only 8 souls saved from the Tribulation that covered the whole earth, then there could be only eight souls to be carried above the whole earth during the tribulation. Then that millennium will come, after the Tribulation, for at that time Jesus will then again touch down on this earth.

These things become clear NOW, that we are in the Last Days before The Great Tribulation, and only then can the begin, of the beginning of the Millennium, begin.

Now here is a good example of how one disagrees with another brother on a biblical interpretive issue. :thumbs:

 

[Nazaroo]

In Revelation 7:9-34 we are given a special vision,
of a vast number of Christian martyrs.
Those who try to apply this vision to the very early times (c. 60-130 A.D.)
or even the last 'great persecution' (c. 280-300 A.D.)
must interpret the vision as an exaggeration of sorts,
a poetical hyperbole.

But if we actually look at the history of Christianity for the last 2000 years,
we will be startled when we find just such a period in history,
and it was quite recent: The first and second World Wars.
The following chart diagrams both the expansion of Christianity,
and the significant periods and places of Christian Martyrdom:

The Second World War in particular is remembered for the Holocaust,
the slaughter of some 6 million people of the Jewish faith,
but the actual numbers for this war show that a a vastly larger number
of Christians, mostly civilians, women and children, were also slaughtered,
in a systemic pattern of genocidal acts, mostly simply butchering,
such as in the Croatian Holocaust, and other East-European events from
the beginning of the 20th century until the end of the Cold War.

It is remarkable that although this great slaughter of Christians temporarily slowed the expansion
of Christianity, it also gave it the greatest boost since the fall of Constantinople.

If we want to interpret Revelation historically, we are again faced with a prophecy
which has a clear and plain literal fulfillment without exaggeration, and with a specific time marked out.

Again, the overall effect is to place us in the Last Times, with few prophecies left to fulfill,
before the Return of the King.