Review of Free Will 2

[InTheLight]

And once again you display this remarkable inability to discern the difference between the physical and the spiritual.

Saying someone doesn't understand something is not a defense of your point of view.

Let's rewind.

Rockson's assertion: You can know and basically understand God's plan without being born again to do so.

TCassidy's response: So you think 1 Cor 2:14 is wrong? "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

My assertion: The natural man knows that Jesus was born in Bethlehem, died on a cross and was raised from the dead. The natural man can know that in order to be saved they must repent and believe in the Gospel.

TCassidy's response: And once again you display this remarkable inability to discern the difference between the physical and the spiritual.

That is not a point. That is an inability to address my assertion, and a dismissal because you don't want to confront the facts.

 

[TCassidy]

And Peter, who, like Paul, had a 'hotline' to Jesus, wrote, in 2 Peter 3:5," The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance."

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow concerning his promise, as some count slowness; but is patient with us, not wishing that any (of us) should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Paul is talking about "the us." It is none of "us" who will perish. In Greek ημας is an accusative plural and τινας is an accusative plural. Toward "US" and "ANY of us." They have to refer to the same people according to the rules of Greek grammar.

 

[TCassidy]

That is an inability to address my assertion, and a dismissal because you don't want to confront the facts.

No. It is pointing out that knowledge of such things is SPIRITUAL not physical. What part of "spiritually discerned" are you having trouble understanding?

 

[InTheLight]

No. It is pointing out that knowledge of such things is SPIRITUAL not physical. What part of "spiritually discerned" are you having trouble understanding?

What part of Rockson's word "know" are you having trouble understanding?

Spiritually discerned things in the context of 1 Cor 2 are the "wisdom of the mature" and "the hidden wisdom of God" (verses 6 and 7), and the "deep things of God" (verse 10). It is not the Gospel. The Gospel can be known by people without the necessity of believing in it. There are MILLIONS of unregenerate, unsaved people that KNOW what the Gospel is and what it says. To say otherwise is to deny reality.

 

[InTheLight]

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow concerning his promise, as some count slowness; but is patient with us, not wishing that any (of us) should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Paul is talking about "the us." It is none of "us" who will perish. In Greek ημας is an accusative plural and τινας is an accusative plural. Toward "US" and "ANY of us." They have to refer to the same people according to the rules of Greek grammar.

Now do Ezekiel 36. Explain who is being addressed in that passage.

 

[InTheLight]

Those who choose to believe however must already believe because of the new birth, before they choose to believe, or they wouldn't choose to believe.

1689Dave: "Those who choose to believe already believed before they chose to believe or they wouldn't have believed."

What a bunch of nonsense.

(And yes, I see that the mods removed my previous post on this matter.)

 

[loDebar]

What verse says " bondage to sin ?

 

[1689Dave]

1689Dave: "Those who choose to believe already believed before they chose to believe or they wouldn't have believed."

What a bunch of nonsense.

(And yes, I see that the mods removed my previous post on this matter.)

How can you choose to do anything you don't already believe in?

 

[InTheLight]

How can you choose to do anything you don't already believe in?

(Entering Rabbit hole #1)

Just last Wednesday I chose a doctor for my mother to see because her regular doctor had retired. I didn't know who this person was, just that she was a geriatric doctor and I knew her name. I chose her.

 

[1689Dave]

(Entering Rabbit hole #1)

Just last Wednesday I chose a doctor for my mother to see because her regular doctor had retired. I didn't know who this person was, just that she was a geriatric doctor and I knew her name. I chose her.

Choosing to believe was your first act of faith..............

 

[TCassidy]

Just last Wednesday I chose a doctor for my mother to see because her regular doctor had retired. I didn't know who this person was, just that she was a geriatric doctor and I knew her name. I chose her.

Oh no. You can't twist your way out of this.

You did not know this doctor.

You did not know her name.

You did not know she was a doctor.

You did not know she went to medical school.

You did not know she had a medical practice.

The only thing you knew about her was that you hated her and wanted nothing to do with her.

 

[InTheLight]

Oh no. You can't twist your way out of this.

You did not know this doctor.

You did not know her name.

You did not know she was a doctor.

You did not know she went to medical school.

You did not know she had a medical practice.

The only thing you knew about her was that you hated her and wanted nothing to do with her.

I did not know this doctor.
I did know her name.
I did know she was a doctor.
I presumed she went to medical school.
I knew she had a medical practice.

I have no idea what you are attempting to say.

 

[InTheLight]

Choosing to believe was your first act of faith..............

I believed she was a doctor. So? You define that as faith?

 

[TCassidy]

I have no idea what you are attempting to say.

That's the point.

 

[InTheLight]

That's the point.

Well, you are really, really good at it!

 

[37818]

What verse says " bondage to sin ?

Romans 6:17. KJV uses the words "the servants. of sin."

 

[TCassidy]

Well, you are really, really good at it!

I know. I was, and am, a good teacher. But, unfortunately, I can explain it to you but I cannot understand it for you.

Spiritual and physical are entirely different. The spiritual pertains to the things of the Spirit and the physical pertains to the things of the flesh. I really don't know how to dumb it down any more than that.

 

[InTheLight]

Spiritual and physical are entirely different. The spiritual pertains to the things of the Spirit and the physical pertains to the things of the flesh. I really don't know how to dumb it down any more than that.

Why not address my previous post:

Spiritually discerned things in the context of 1 Cor 2 are the "wisdom of the mature" and "the hidden wisdom of God" (verses 6 and 7), and the "deep things of God" (verse 10). It is not the Gospel. The Gospel can be known by people without the necessity of believing in it. There are MILLIONS of unregenerate, unsaved people that KNOW what the Gospel is and what it says. To say otherwise is to deny reality.

 

[TCassidy]

Why not address my previous post:

That is because there is nothing to address, just the same old failure to discern the fleshly from the spiritual.

The Gospel can be known by people without the necessity of believing in it.

No, it can't. That is the whole point. Paul said "That I may KNOW Him." He is not talking about being a social friend. He is talking about the personal, intimate, spiritual relationship with Christ which conforms us to His death.

To "know" Him and His good news is not a mere head knowledge. It is a life changing condition.

Our church's motto is "To Know Him and to Make Him Known." That is not about a social club. It is about the intimate relationship we have with him and preach to others about.

I'm sorry, but I really don't believe you can't understand the difference. You are too obviously intelligent for that. All I can conclude is that you are trolling me, and I really lack the time and patience to continue.

Have a nice life.

 

[InTheLight]

That is because there is nothing to address, just the same old failure to discern the fleshly from the spiritual.
No, it can't. That is the whole point. Paul said "That I may KNOW Him." He is not talking about being a social friend. He is talking about the personal, intimate, spiritual relationship with Christ which conforms us to His death.

To "know" Him and His good news is not a mere head knowledge. It is a life changing condition.

Agreed.

The point being discussed is not whether or not someone "knows" Jesus in the salvific sense. Rockson's point was that people can know basic spiritual things about the Gospel, the sinless life of Jesus, his death on a cross, his resurrection, and that they need to believe this to be a Christian.

You seem to be saying, that no, people can't even know the facts of the Gospel because they are spiritually discerned. My point is that people can know the facts of the Gospel. The verse in 1 Cor 2:14 is indeed speaking of a deeper knowledge of Christ, the weightier matters of the Spirit. Unregenerate people can't understand these things. But they can understand the Gospel.