And now you are trying to derail the thread. Please go back and answer my post #91, and let's get the thread back on track.
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Review of "Hell's Best Kept Secret"
- Thread starter John of Japan
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He said he has 9 books on both sides of the subject. That means some are in support, some are against. Then he named some authors that he suggest YOU read: Martuneac, Hodges, Ryrie, and Pickering.
If you're not familiar with their works, then JoJ has studied the subject much more in-depth than you have.
But I'm really looking forward to your answer to JoJ's post #91.
Please tell me you are joking.
I have read How then should we live when first saved, and really spoke to me on how to live as a Christian in post modern age!
I do like to read and listen to him, as I think he is good on the Christine doctrines of the Faith, except in the area of Lordship salvtion, and he also tends to see himself as only way to see things at times!
I also reject the extreme position that DR Mac and others have taken in LS position, as know they want to make ure one is really saved, but looking to us for thir confidence is NOT what Bible teaches, as we are to focus upon Jesus and the Cross!Thanks for a good laugh. I reject Lordship Salvation because I understand it, not because I don't.
Son, I was thinking about LS and rejecting it way back in 1972, when I was taught it at BJU by Arend ten Pas, one of MacArthur's original sources. (Find him in MacArthur's bibliography.)
I have nine books on both sides of the subject and have read them all. Don't pretend you understand the doctrine until you have read its opponents: Martuneac, Hodges, Ryrie, the pamphlet by Pickering, etc.
How else are you going to get the complete gospel? If I recall. Wasn't it MacArthur who wrote "how shall they hear without a preacher?" And, in case you haven't noticed, he is a preacher.
All you should do is read books by Ryrie and Zane Hodgh concerning LSad gree grace!
Yeah, that's my next target. Heh, heh, heh.
But think about what you typed in. Comfort wrote a book on soul-winning, Hell's Best Kept Secret, and he didn't even get the Gospel right. How does this make his other books on evangelism worth reading?
He is a good uthor, but tends to get to extreme in his views, not tolerant of any against him, and his LS still is extreme...
I have a MacArthur study Bible and a reading plan to study all of his notes next year. I only wish he used footnotes instead of including the whole Bible (all that scripture gets in the way and makes the book a bit bulkey).
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I am adamantly opposed to LS.
Why: because as on earth so in the heavenlies.
We are born as babies on earth and as babes in Christ spiritually, we are not BORN as ADULTS.
The level of maturity to realize His Lordship differs among His little ones as they approach spiritual adolescence.
And when I did realized that He was/is my LORD, it was as the hymn says "Joy unspeakable and full of glory!".
HankD
Why: because as on earth so in the heavenlies.
We are born as babies on earth and as babes in Christ spiritually, we are not BORN as ADULTS.
The level of maturity to realize His Lordship differs among His little ones as they approach spiritual adolescence.
And when I did realized that He was/is my LORD, it was as the hymn says "Joy unspeakable and full of glory!".
HankD
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I think we believe in Jesus as Lord and Savior or not at all. In speaking of belief, faith, and repentance, we are speaking of lordship (or to whom we belong). But I do not know that this is "Lordship Salvation".
Jon IMO You are quoting a fallacy that someone else taught you in your first sentence. It is about our spiritual birth not our belief in dissecting Him into LORD and Savior and having to believe both that determines if He is indeed our LORD.
At my rebirth He was (even if I didn't realize it), He is, He always will be my LORD.
HankD
Given your last statement, I am really not so sure where we disagree.
I believe that repentance and belief are essential to salvation and no one is saved apart from faith. Belief implies an object towards which that faith is directed. Repentance is turning from one thing to another. So I believe that when I was saved I turned from my own righteousness and my own sinful nature to Christ, and His nature and His righteousness. That is, Jesus is Lord and Savior….He cannot be one without the other.
I am not saying that we realize this fully (I do believe we have a realized faith in Christ) when we are saved. And I am not saying that we do not struggle and sin.I am saying that when we are saved we die to sin and are made alive to God in Christ (not “outside of Christ”).
Jesus is more than Lord and Savior - any Mormon or JW can say He is Lord and Savior
He is God come in the flesh.
HankD
I don't mean we say He is our Lord and Savior, I mean He is our Lord and Savior regardless of the extent we realize it (if we are saved).
His study bible is very good, but just remind yourself that he has that strong LS poition that comes thru!
The truth is hat God installs Jesu as the Lord over all of th redeemed, we do not make Him Lord over us, since He already that over us!
IF He meant that we need to become more and more like Jesus, allowing Him to fully rule our lives, OK, but he tends to make it sound like if we are holding still unto any sin areas, not saved!
Almost like tha we need to be cleaned up before saved!
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