Absolutely, that's what he's really saying. Unless God agree them, they will never bow the knee to Him. He is not worthy of their praise if He is in disagreement with them.
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Review of Martin Luther and Free Will
- Thread starter loDebar
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Absolutely, that's what he's really saying. Unless God agree them, they will never bow the knee to Him. He is not worthy of their praise if He is in disagreement with them.
Hmm...I didn't get that out of it.
Try these on for size...
"No one can be a slave of two masters, since either he will hate one and love the other, or be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot be slaves of God and of money."[Matthew 6:24]
The Christ say we can not serve two masters. So that shows us that as lost ppl we were slaves to Satan, as saved ppl, we are slaves of the Christ. That's why Apostle Paul used the phrase Χρήστος Δούλος.
For we know that our old self was crucified with Him in order that sin's dominion over the body may be abolished, so that we may no longer be enslaved to sin,[Romans 6:6]
Here we see that we have been crucified to the Christ and are no longer enslaved to sin. Prior to that we were enslaves, slaves to sin and satan.
Do you not know that if you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of that one you obey-either of sin leading to death or of obedience leading to righteousness? But thank God that, although you used to be slaves of sin, you obeyed from the heart that pattern of teaching you were entrusted to and having been liberated from sin, you became enslaved to righteousness.[Romans 6:16-18]
Again, as lost ppl, we sere slaves to sin and Satan. As saved ppl, we are slaves to the Christ. Slaves ain't free.
This is called a red herring. The question is, can we turn to Christ to be set free.
If a lost person turns to the Christ they have ALREADY been set free. However, the very moment they are set free, they are saved, as this is a simultaneous action wrought by God.
Of course you didn't. You agree with him, so you aren't going to see it.
I believe John 8 details the reality of what is in question. Those who "receive Christ's word" are "set free". "Whom the Son sets free if free in deed." Who does the Son set free? The ones who do the works of Abraham. What are his works? Believing God, Receiving His Word, and Receiving Him (as He did in Genesis 18 with the Preincarnate Lord).
Which is in Contrast to the unbelieving Jews who did NOT receive Christ's word.
IOW, those who do something are saved and those who don't do that same something the saved ppl did, aren't.
You have placed the onus of salvation on ppl and not God.
#Kudos!
Read the passage bro, God's Word, not mine. Those fallacious statements are quite tiresome, brother. Salvation is all of the Lord. God Justifies, Sanctifies, Glorifies. "Believing" is not a work! Besides, it's by God's grace that He effects salvation. I could "believe" all day long, but unless God Works, it means nothing.
Again, those who do something are saved and those who don't do something aren't. Its just that plain and simple. Own it.
You want to know what gets really, I mean reeeeeaaaallllllyyyy tiresome? Seeing ppl cheapen grace. They say that if God calls one, He has to call everybody or He isn't being fair. Srsly?
If grace must be offered, it ceases to be grace, but becomes an obligation. Since when is God beholden to us and our demands? Since when does He seek our counsel on things pertaining to whom He must save? Election took place from before the creation of the world[Ephesians 1:4] whether you like it or not. He chose a # of wicked, God-hating, God-rebellious ppl to give to His Son to redeem from the rest of fallen humanity.Now, getting back to fairness. If God was fair, He would roast everybody w/o exception in an eternal hell. That's fairness. It's only by mercy He pardoned us through the cross work of His Son, and His grace He bestowed on us when He saved us.
Now, if the cross was for everybody, then everybody would be saved. It was at the cross the penalty of our sins was paid. He paid it for us. Now, if He paid it for everybody w/o exception, and not everybody w/o exception is saved, then the Christ paid for their sins in vain. Plus, you have a 'double payment', as the Christ paid for them, but that wasn't enough, they also pay for them.
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Rockson
Active Member
Nobody can boast as in what Rom 3:26-27 says below that they did anything according to the law (the Mosaic law) that requires works which saved them. But there is another law....the law that requires faith!
"...he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus. Where, then, is boasting?It is excluded. Because of what law? The law that requires works? No, because of the law that requires faith. Rom 3:26-27
In regard to the law that requires faith we're told,
For whoever enters God’s rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from His. (can't work the Mosaic law to produce salvation---not by works lest any man should boast Eph 2:8 but there is a different kind of law, the law of faith of which we are told,
Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. Heb 4:11
A contradiction? Rest BUT labour? Nope. Choosing to believe God is not a work of the flesh. Choosing to believe God had nothing to do with "not of works lest any man should boast" which was talking about the law of Moses BUT NOT the law of faith.
But us doing something with the law of faith IS A MUST for why would he tell us to labour if not? Are we to turn around and say to God no, no, no! I won't labor in the law of faith as you instructed? (Heb 4:11) You do it! It's all you!" Well I think God would say to such a one well if you're not going to do what I 've told you to do, " believe and receive and you tell me to do the labour I've told YOU TO DO then don't be surprised that you go without.
For one to put down another simply because they said they believed God, and they confessed the Lordship of Christ and to have someone ram them with, "Who do you think you are to say YOU did something to effect your salvation not of works lest any man should boast" Is ludicrous. Such ones don't even understand the context of Eph 2:8 or of what this whole passage of Heb 4 means.
That is a rather strange interpretation of the various texts you have quoted.
In the light of the imminent closure of the thread and my own Lord's day commitments, I will not investigate them in detail, but merely point out that repentance and faith unto salvation are in fact gifts of God (Acts 5:31; 11:18; .Ephesians 2:8; 2 Peter 1:1).
However, if you want to re-post your thoughts on a new thread, I will be happy to discuss them there in more detail as I have time.
This thread is closed.
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