Rewards

[Moriah]

Then you misunderstood what I said in that thread also. You should have started a thread on the beliefs of Pelagius.

No you haven't. You have miserably failed. Look in the post above. I have very concisely put with Scripture how eternal life is a gift, and rewards are the good works a Christian does. I am not in error.
The gift of God is eternal life.
Why do you want me to deny Scripture and say that the Bible is wrong. This is what Romans 6:23 says. You need to believe the clear teaching of Scripture.

I only gave you fractions recently because I received many complaint about you attacking others and making rude comments. That has nothing to do with your position on anything. It has to do with your Christian deportment and character. It is my belief that a person, not you or anyone else can keep the two great commands that Jesus gave. If you loved your neighbor as yourself you would do something about it. You would go to Africa or Asia and clothe the needy, feed the hungry, and give the gospel to those who have never heard it before. But you don't do that. How dare you say that you keep that command FULLY. You don't. That is an example. But you don't like it when I defend my position. That is hypocritical isn't it? Are you the only one on the board that is allowed to defend one's position. This is a debate forum. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the fire.
And please act like a Christian.

He that has ears, let him hear. Read the posts.

DHK,

I will not respond to this time of posts from you to me, only to say I will not respond.

 

[DHK]

How do you get that treasures mean rewards?

Look in the context of what Jesus spoke those words:

Matthew 6:19-20 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
--Your treasure is your reward. Have you ever heard of a treasure chest? A box full of treasures, full of good things, or rewards, or a reward for finding it? Jesus said to put it where it won't rust, where moths won't eat it, where thieves can't steal it, where those rewards will be safe. Those are your rewards. He is speaking of rewards.

From Thayer's Lexicon: "treasure"
Thayer Definition:
1) the place in which good and precious things are collected and laid up
1a) a casket, coffer, or other receptacle, in which valuables are kept
1b) a treasury
1c) storehouse, repository, magazine
2) the things laid up in a treasury, collected treasures
--It figuratively refers to our good works. What else could it refer to?

I believe that treasures spoken of it the wisdom and knowledge we find by obeying Jesus’ teachings. See Colossians 2:3.

Context:
Colossians 2:2-3 That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;
3 In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.
--This is a completely different context. "In whom" refers to Christ. In Christ is all wisdom and knowledge, not in the believer. We have access to some of it.

I do not believe as you say that salvation is a gift with no conditions attached.

It is what the Bible teaches. If it has conditions attached, then what are the conditions? Keeping the Ten Commandments? Being circumcised as the Judaizers taught? That is legalism and it is a false doctrine. Salvation is by faith and faith alone. It is a gift to be received. If it is to be received by faith there are no conditions. It is not to be worked for.

We are to aim for perfection. We are to obey Jesus.

You can set that as your goal, but you will not attain perfection in this lifetime. If you think you must attain perfection before entering into heaven you will fail and enter into hell instead.

As for you saying a gift is different from a reward, please note that they are synonyms. I do not believe gifts and rewards are synonyms of treasures.

They are not synonyms.
I give a dog a treat or reward when I train him, when he does good.
When good is done he is rewarded.
If he does bad he receives punishment.
Salvation is a gift given without reward, without works, without anything worked for. They are not synonymous.

If you believe not me, believe the Scriptures:
Romans 4:4-5 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

These two scriptures tell us that the “inheritance” is the “reward,” and that the “eternal life” is the inheritance.
Colossians 3:24 since you know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as a reward. It is the Lord Christ you are serving.

CONTEXT:
Colossians 3:23 And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men;
--It is speaking of service, not eternal life. The service is the inheritance. Whatever you do, do it heartily, as to the Lord. That is service.

Matthew 19:29 And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life.

Why do you go against the scripture here that Jesus says, “inherit eternal life”? Why do you think Jesus says, “Inherit eternal life” if that is not what we inherit?

They were going to heaven far before this. They already had eternal life. He was speaking of sacrifice. The context is obvious. He is speaking of forsaking all for Jesus. Jesus does add that on. But the emphasis is on service. Their reward was in their service. Some will receive a hundred fold in reward.

 

[Moriah]

Look in the context of what Jesus spoke those words:Matthew 6:19-20 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal: --Your treasure is your reward. Have you ever heard of a treasure chest? A box full of treasures, full of good things, or rewards, or a reward for finding it? Jesus said to put it where it won't rust, where moths won't eat it, where thieves can't steal it, where those rewards will be safe. Those are your rewards. He is speaking of rewards.

If anything, you have shown that “treasures” is eternal life. If you do not believe treasures is eternal life, but rather some type of possible extra extravagances, then what are these? Please use scriptures.

From Thayer's Lexicon: "treasure"
Thayer Definition:
1) the place in which good and precious things are collected and laid up
1a) a casket, coffer, or other receptacle, in which valuables are kept
1b) a treasury
1c) storehouse, repository, magazine
2) the things laid up in a treasury, collected treasures
--It figuratively refers to our good works. What else could it refer to?

You are proving we must obey Jesus, and from what you say in debates with me, we do not have to do anything to keep our salvation.

Context:
Colossians 2:2-3 That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;
3 In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. --This is a completely different context. "In whom" refers to Christ. In Christ is all wisdom and knowledge, not in the believer. We have access to some of it.

I just do not separate treasures from knowledge and wisdom. I do not separate wisdom and knowledge from Christ, and I do not separate Jesus, knowledge, wisdom, obeying Jesus’ teachings, reward, and gift from eternal life.

It is what the Bible teaches. If it has conditions attached, then what are the conditions? Keeping the Ten Commandments? Being circumcised as the Judaizers taught? That is legalism and it is a false doctrine. Salvation is by faith and faith alone. It is a gift to be received. If it is to be received by faith there are no conditions. It is not to be worked for.

Judaizers taught that we had to obey the works of the law of the Old Testament, but God nailed those things to the cross. We are no longer judged by a Sabbath day, or what we eat.

You can set that as your goal, but you will not attain perfection in this lifetime. If you think you must attain perfection before entering into heaven you will fail and enter into hell instead.

I have the kingdom of heaven in me now.

They are not synonyms.
I give a dog a treat or reward when I train him, when he does good.
When good is done he is rewarded.
If he does bad he receives punishment.
Salvation is a gift given without reward, without works, without anything worked for. They are not synonymous.

So, are you going against all the dictionary sites that say reward and gift are synonyms?
What about the Bible saying the reward is an inheritance? What are you saying the inheritance is then? I do not believe you have answered that. The Bible says the inheritance is the reward.

If you believe not me, believe the Scriptures:
Romans 4:4-5 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

I believe that is about the works of the law, like circumcision, Sabbath days, various ceremonial washings…things the Jews had to do just to worship God. We do not have to do those things to worship God, for God lives inside true believers; we are made clean by what Jesus did for us. We are reconciled to God by believing in Jesus, not by ceremonial washings, not by gift offerings and sacrifices---those things were the works of the law, those things are things one must do before even worshiping God.

CONTEXT:
Colossians 3:23 And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men;
--It is speaking of service, not eternal life. The service is the inheritance. Whatever you do, do it heartily, as to the Lord. That is service.

You say the service is the inheritance. You say working is what we inherit. The bible says eternal life is what we inherit. Again, you do not say what the scriptures plainly say. However, again, you prove from scripture that we must do what Jesus tells us to do for salvation. I do not understand how you say we do not have to do anything. So many scriptures say that we do.

They were going to heaven far before this. They already had eternal life. He was speaking of sacrifice. The context is obvious. He is speaking of forsaking all for Jesus. Jesus does add that on. But the emphasis is on service. Their reward was in their service. Some will receive a hundred fold in reward.

Jesus plainly says that what is inherited is eternal life.
Matthew 19:29 And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life.

 

[DHK]

I believe that is about the works of the law, like circumcision, Sabbath days, various ceremonial washings…things the Jews had to do just to worship God. We do not have to do those things to worship God, for God lives inside true believers; we are made clean by what Jesus did for us. We are reconciled to God by believing in Jesus, not by ceremonial washings, not by gift offerings and sacrifices---those things were the works of the law, those things are things one must do before even worshiping God.

This is what I said:

Originally Posted by DHK
If you believe not me, believe the Scriptures:
Romans 4:4-5 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Your reply is above.
It is totally unbiblical. You need to study this passage out. The entire passage is speaking of justification by faith. You need to learn this.

 

[Moriah]

Romans 4:4-5 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

This is what I said:

Your reply is above.
It is totally unbiblical. You need to study this passage out. The entire passage is speaking of justification by faith. You need to learn this.
[/I]

You are wrong. The passage is about ABRAHAM BEING JUSTIFIED BY BELIEVING BEFORE HE WAS CIRCUMCISED.
Read the rest of the scriptures, just four more scriptures down. Romans 4:9 Is this blessedness only for the circumcised, or also for the uncircumcised? 10 Was it after he was circumcised, or before? It was not after but before!
Apostle Paul is explaining that the works of the law are the works like circumcision. It is not about being able to have wickedness in your heart and rebel with sin.

 

[DHK]

Romans 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

Romans 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

 

[annsni]

Romans 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

Romans 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

What a powerful Scripture. If our reward was because of our works, it would not be from the grace of God but instead, our reward is because He loved us. It is not based on anything we've done. How humbling!

 

[DHK]

What a powerful Scripture. If our reward was because of our works, it would not be from the grace of God but instead, our reward is because He loved us. It is not based on anything we've done. How humbling!

Yes, the context, salvation or justification to be more precise, is all of grace--the grace of Christ, to be accepted by faith. There is nothing that we can do to merit it.

 

[fortytworc]

I have a right to defend myself. DHK said to me “You…” I take it personal because it was. Again, I have the right to defend myself. Do you think it is right to come onto the thread only to speak against me for defending myself? Please tell us what you think the reward is and why.

You have to defend yourself only because you attack others simply because they interpret some scripture differently than you do. YOU DO THIS ALL THE TIME. WHY CAN YOU ATTACK AND NNE ELSE CAN. If....no... WHEN you attack it is because others are FALSE TEACHERS, teaching DOCTRINES of DEMONS, etc. If they don't even attack but say you interpret things differently, they are falsely judging you. This is all because you think you are 100% right 100% of the time in your interpretation of scripture. That is what ALL OF YOU POSTS ARE ABOUT!!!Why don't you just plainly speak the TRUTH, which you say you love, on about this thread and all of your threads. ARE YOU 100% right 100% of the time in your interpretation of Scripture? The Question is ON TOPIC, and IS ABOUT SCRIPTURE! You hide behind a cloud of self righteous JUDGEMENT, FALSE ACCUSATION, CONTRADICTORY STATEMENTS, IMMATURE NAME CALLING, POINTLESS HAIRSPLITTING, and PRIDEFUL POSITIONING OF YOURSELF above EVERYONE!!! COME CLEAN MORIAH. YOU ARE 100% RIGHT 100% OF THE TIME aren't you? It does not matter how you are treated by anyone because with the next word typed they might disagree with you and YOU MAKE THEM YOUR ENEMY.

 

[Moriah]

Romans 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

Romans 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

Those scriptures are about Paul explaining how we do not have to be circumcised. Was not Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? Why else does James say Abraham was considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar, BECAUSE PAUL WAS SPEAKING ABOUT CIRCUMCISION AND THAT TYPE OF WORKS. You see that Abraham’s faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did.

 

[Moriah]

edited for rudeness and slander.

This is a debate site on scripture. The thread is about the reward.
Tell us what you believe about the topic and why.

 

[DHK]

Those scriptures are about Paul explaining how we do not have to be circumcised. Was not Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? Why else does James say Abraham was considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar, BECAUSE PAUL WAS SPEAKING ABOUT CIRCUMCISION AND THAT TYPE OF WORKS. You see that Abraham’s faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did.

1. You can leave James out of this. James was written about 50 A.D., one of the first NT books to be written. It was written at least 10 years before Paul wrote this epistle to the Romans, James had no knowledge of Paul's writings.

2. Paul is speaking of works, period. The works of Abraham preceded Moses. Abraham lived ca. 2100. Moses lived ca. 1400. There is a 700 year gap there. The law came more than 700 years after Abraham.

3. The works that are referred to in Rom.4 were Abraham's obedience to God: his leaving Ur, his nomadic life, his offering Isaac, and simply doing what God wanted him to do. It was not a keeping of the law (it had not come yet).

4. All the good things, even the offering of Isaac, Abraham could not boast in. Even the tremendous rescue of Lot, defeating all those kings with his trained servants--just 315 men, he couldn't boast about. Why? His glory was in God and not himself.

5. He believed God, and that is what justified him, not his works, not the good things that he did.

Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

His works were nothing. Even if he had not done one work but simply believed he would have been justified. It was his belief in God that justified him. His works, as far as his salvation was concerned, were totally irrelevant. It was his faith that justified him.

Romans 4:6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

So it was with David.
God imputed righteousness unto him without works. Why?
He believed God by faith alone.

 

[fortytworc]

Matthew 6:19-20 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal.
You cannot lay up treasures in heaven unless you will be there. Going there is what was bought for us by Jesus sacrifice and GIVEN( as in GIFT) SO we believe, then receive the Gift. Any treasure we have (whether earned or given) is irrelevant if our heart is not with them in heaven.

When a person comes to God through Jesus, they HAVE COME TO MOUNT ZION, to the heavenly Jerusalem. We actually come to heaven where God is. Hebrews 12:22 Sounds like a spiritual gift to me. I bet you recognize this ,Moriah

 

[billwald]

Then neither circumcision nor baptism are good works. Marriage is not a good work . . . what is? Giving to charity? Anything else?

 

[fortytworc]

Do What you say others should do!!

1. You can leave James out of this. James was written about 50 A.D., one of the first NT books to be written. It was written at least 10 years before Paul wrote this epistle to the Romans, James had no knowledge of Paul's writings.

2. Paul is speaking of works, period. The works of Abraham preceded Moses. Abraham lived ca. 2100. Moses lived ca. 1400. There is a 700 year gap there. The law came more than 700 years after Abraham.

3. The works that are referred to in Rom.4 were Abraham's obedience to God: his leaving Ur, his nomadic life, his offering Isaac, and simply doing what God wanted him to do. It was not a keeping of the law (it had not come yet).

4. All the good things, even the offering of Isaac, Abraham could not boast in. Even the tremendous rescue of Lot, defeating all those kings with his trained servants--just 315 men, he couldn't boast about. Why? His glory was in God and not himself.

5. He believed God, and that is what justified him, not his works, not the good things that he did.

Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

His works were nothing. Even if he had not done one work but simply believed he would have been justified. It was his belief in God that justified him. His works, as far as his salvation was concerned, were totally irrelevant. It was his faith that justified him.

Romans 4:6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

So it was with David.
God imputed righteousness unto him without works. Why?
He believed God by faith alone.

Moriah,
You have to defend yourself because you are the first to attack!!! YOU ALWAYS ATTACK EVERYONE when they interpret scripture differently than you do. THIS THREAD and ALL OF YOUR THREADS BOIL DOWN TNE THING : YOU ARE RIGHT and ALL who disagree with you are WRONG! The question "Moriah, do you believe that you are 100% right 100% of the time in your interpretation of scripture? IS ON TOPIC and IS ABOUT SCRIPTURE! when someone disagrees with you you ALL WAYS ACCUSE and ATTACK them. Why is it O.K. for you to call those who interpret scripture another way than you : FALSE TEACHERS, Teachers of DOCTRINES of DEMONS,etc? Why can you so-called defend yourself but others can't defend themselves. YOU MAKE an ENEMY of EVERYONE. It doesn't matter how they treat you. You hide behind a cloud of Judgement, False Accusation, Self Righteous Condemnation of everyone, and PRIDEFUL Presentation of yourself as the only one who love the truth and understands it correctly. Why don't you answer the simple question, Are you 100% right 100% of the time in your interpretation and understanding of Scripture? I don't think you will answer it because if you tell the TRUTH you will have to admit that you may be wrong about any of your posts. The question is on topic and about scripture. So why do you refuse to quit judging and accusing?

 

[Moriah]

1. You can leave James out of this. James was written about 50 A.D., one of the first NT books to be written. It was written at least 10 years before Paul wrote this epistle to the Romans, James had no knowledge of Paul's writings.

No, I am not going to leave James out of it.

2. Paul is speaking of works, period.

If God did not consider the state of Abraham’s heart, God would not choose him to make him a great nation and bless him. God destroyed the people and the city of Sodom and Gomorrah for their wickedness, what people have in their heart is what they do, and it matters! Abraham did what God said way before circumcision!

3. The works that are referred to in Rom.4 were Abraham's obedience to God: his leaving Ur, his nomadic life, his offering Isaac, and simply doing what God wanted him to do. It was not a keeping of the law (it had not come yet).

You say here the works that are referred to in Romans 4 is about Abraham’s obedience to God! That is NOT a works of the law, for as you even admitted earlier is that the law was not even in place yet! You really contradicted scripture and yourself saying that. The works are circumcision that is what Paul says in Romans 4:9!

5. He believed God, and that is what justified him, not his works, not the good things that he did.

LOL…Do you remember what happened to Sodom and Gomorrah and why?
Do you think that it would have been okay if Abraham did not keep the oath he made to God? Our actions work together, and our faith is made complete by what we do.

Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

His works were nothing. Even if he had not done one work but simply believed he would have been justified. It was his belief in God that justified him. His works, as far as his salvation was concerned, were totally irrelevant. It was his faith that justified him.

Even demons believe that God is One, and shudder! According to your reasoning, demons can be saved because they believe.

Romans 4:6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
So it was with David.
God imputed righteousness unto him without works. Why?
He believed God by faith alone.

David is describing a life without works like circumcision, various ceremonial washings, sin offerings, and gift offerings! THOSE ARE THE THINGS THE JEWS HAD TO DO WHEN THEY SINNED JUST TO WORSHIP GOD! David is speaking of the people who will be forgiven through Jesus. Those in Jesus are reconciled to God; we do not have to do those things just to worship God as the Jews did in the Old Testament.

 

[Moriah]

Then neither circumcision nor baptism are good works. Marriage is not a good work . . . what is? Giving to charity? Anything else?

Get Jesus' teachings and obey them, see John 14:23.

 

[DHK]

If God did not consider the state of Abraham’s heart, God would not choose him to make him a great nation and bless him.

The state of Abraham's heart was that of simple faith in God. Who are you to judge it?

Romans 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
--Abraham was not judged or justified by what he did, or by works.

Romans 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
--He was justified by faith and faith alone. He believed God.

God destroyed the people and the city of Sodom and Gomorrah for their wickedness, what people have in their heart is what they do, and it matters! Abraham did what God said way before circumcision!

What was the most important thing that he did?
What made him a believer?

Romans 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

You say here the works that are referred to in Romans 4 is about Abraham’s obedience to God! That is NOT a works of the law, for as you even admitted earlier is that the law was not even in place yet! You really contradicted scripture and yourself saying that. The works are circumcision that is what Paul says in Romans 4:9!

No that is not what Paul says in Romans 4:9 and following. You are confused.

Romans 4:9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.
Romans 4:12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.
--Abraham was not circumcised. He is considered here as the father of the uncircumcised. That goes against your teaching.

LOL…Do you remember what happened to Sodom and Gomorrah and why?
Do you think that it would have been okay if Abraham did not keep the oath he made to God? Our actions work together, and our faith is made complete by what we do.

Abraham was a believer; those in Sodom and Gomorrah were not. Apples and oranges. Sodom and Gomorrah were judged because of their gross wickedness. Abraham was a believer because (as the word indicates) he believed God.

Romans 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
--Nothing is said about his works here.

Even demons believe that God is One, and shudder! According to your reasoning, demons can be saved because they believe.

Are you inferring that Abraham had demonic faith?? Sad! Truly sad!

David is describing a life without works like circumcision, various ceremonial washings, sin offerings, and gift offerings! THOSE ARE THE THINGS THE JEWS HAD TO DO WHEN THEY SINNED JUST TO WORSHIP GOD! David is speaking of the people who will be forgiven through Jesus. Those in Jesus are reconciled to God; we do not have to do those things just to worship God as the Jews did in the Old Testament.

Where does it say that? It doesn't. You are reading into the scriptures things that aren't there. Look again.

Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
--No works.

Romans 4:6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
--no works.

Romans 4:7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
--no works.

Romans 4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
--no works.

Again and again the Bible teaches that salvation is by faith alone without works. See again Eph.2:8,9 and Rom.5:1

 

[Moriah]

The state of Abraham's heart was that of simple faith in God. Who are you to judge it?

Who am I to judge you say. That is your reply to God choosing Abraham.

God looks at the heart!

God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. Acts 15:8

Then they prayed, "Lord, you know everyone's heart. Show us which of these two you have chosen Acts 1:24

1 Samuel 16:7 But the LORD said to Samuel, “Do not consider his appearance or his height, for I have rejected him. The LORD does not look at the things people look at. People look at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart.”

Romans 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
--Abraham was not judged or justified by what he did, or by works.

Abraham was not judged or justified by the works of the law like circumcision. Why else do you think Paul talks about circumcision just four scriptures later?

Romans 4:9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.
Romans 4:12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.
--Abraham was not circumcised. He is considered here as the father of the uncircumcised. That goes against your teaching.

No, it does not go against my beliefs. Abraham made an oath to God and kept it. Abraham went where God told him to go. He obeyed God.

Abraham was a believer; those in Sodom and Gomorrah were not. Apples and oranges. Sodom and Gomorrah were judged because of their gross wickedness. Abraham was a believer because (as the word indicates) he believed God.

If it did not matter what was in Abraham’s heart, then you go against the Word of God.

Are you inferring that Abraham had demonic faith?? Sad! Truly sad!

According to your beliefs that we are all evil hearted and all we have to do is believe. Apostle James says, “You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.” Are you telling Apostle James that he is saying Christians have demonic faith?

Romans 4:6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
--no works.

No works of the law like animal sacrifices for sins.

Again and again the Bible teaches that salvation is by faith alone without works. See again Eph.2:8,9 and Rom.5:1

Romans 5:1 does not say our actions do not work with our faith. Ephesians 2:8-9 is about works of the law like circumcision. Just two scriptures later Paul brings up what again? CIRCUMCISION!
Oh how I love God’s Word.

 

[fortytworc]

Tell me what is so hard to understand about Jesus' words “Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’ and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.” “Do this and you will live.” What is so hard to understand about that? Do you not think you have to do those things to live?

Better to be in a corner alone than to live forever with constant drip.