Rick Warren Speaks out

[tyndale1946]

No women pastors/elders in the church I attend as well

...but we have women deacons,
women who meet together to plan women's ministries,
a woman who serves as a business manager (reporting offerings, checks and balances, budget etc.),
women who organize and direct family outings,
women who teach children and youth,
women who organize women's events and teach them,
women missionaries,
women who serve the needy and who and organize groups to provide meals for them,

they serve a pastoral role by another name, imho,

Oh, we have men's ministries as well. lol

Rob

Each one of us has a role in the body of Christ and maybe some of us serve in various roles but the role of the preacher in the body of Christ, is not to give a sermon in a dress... Brother Glen

 

[MrW]

1 Timothy 2: 10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.

11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.

12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

1 Timothy 3: 1 This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.

2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;

4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;

5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)

6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.

7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

I don't care what Rick Warren has to say, I go to scripture... Rick Warren can do what he wants to and does and many follow him but I believe The Apostle Paul not Rick Warren... Wrong is wrong and you cannot make wrong right... The injustice done is to Rick Warren and his pathetic satanic interpretation of scripture... Brother Glen

Btw... A woman is saved in child bearing as we all are, Mary bore Jesus Christ the Son Of God our Savior and that is how any of us are saved!

I care zero what Warren says.

 

[Mikey]

At first I agreed with you. But now I'm not so sure.

The reason is we can find problems with two things and simply not have a solution.

NT Wright did this with Justification (he suggested we visit the topic because he concluded the current doctrine was problematic. BUT when he offered the NPP he also said I was not without issues.

When I first rejected the Penal Substitution Theory of Atonement I was in the same boat. I realized holding Scripture as thel standard for doctrine and Penal Substitution Theory was not possible, but I did not have a ready solution. I couldn't keep believing what I knew was false and had to be patient in studying God's Word (for a couple of years).

So I can see how the man can reject both views yet not have anything substantial to offer. Maybe he doesn't need to offer anything at all.

The comparison of Warren and Wright doesn't hold. Wright has taught and explained his views Warren has not. Warren claims he has changed his mind after extensive study, yet does not explain what he has learned from this study. He acts on it by ordaining female pastors but doesn't give a scriptural basis for it. This is not to say Warren or Wright are correct, Wright has been open and people are able to engage with Wright and point out the error. Warren has kept thing hidden, so people cannot correct or be corrected.

So he denies both Complementarianism and Egalitarianism, fine. But what does he believe? Clearly he believes it is right for women to preach and to be Pastors. Does he give a scriptural reason for this, No. He claims his views are biblical but refuses to explain the biblical basis.Yes, he must be ready to give an answer when he acts contrary to the SBC Statement of Faith which precludes woman pastors.

 

[Salty]

I care zero what Warren says.

Actually, we should care
Why
So when a church member asks about it - then we can intelligently discuss the issue so they can understand what the Bible says

 

[Salty]

If Rick Warren wants to have female pastors - and he knows the SBC does not so endorse - why would he want to stay in the SBC?

He if free to go with the CBF, AoB or even the ABC!

 

[JonC]

The comparison of Warren and Wright doesn't hold. Wright has taught and explained his views Warren has not. Warren claims he has changed his mind after extensive study, yet does not explain what he has learned from this study. He acts on it by ordaining female pastors but doesn't give a scriptural basis for it. This is not to say Warren or Wright are correct, Wright has been open and people are able to engage with Wright and point out the error. Warren has kept thing hidden, so people cannot correct or be corrected.

So he denies both Complementarianism and Egalitarianism, fine. But what does he believe? Clearly he believes it is right for women to preach and to be Pastors. Does he give a scriptural reason for this, No. He claims his views are biblical but refuses to explain the biblical basis.Yes, he must be ready to give an answer when he acts contrary to the SBC Statement of Faith which precludes woman pastors.

Wright has to a very large degree (in a very large book ).

What I mean is Wright says in describing his belief that he wants to open dialogue because Reformed theology had gotten it wrong by interpretating Scripture within a 15th to 16th century worldview. BUT he also said he has no doubt there are problems with his NPP (hence desiring conversation).

I read Warren as saying much the same (that the two views are problematic, he holds neither fully).

Personally I don't care. I'm not a fan of Warren (not an enemy either).

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Each one of us has a role in the body of Christ and maybe some of us serve in various roles but the role of the preacher in the body of Christ, is not to give a sermon in a dress... Brother Glen

Ohhh, the way thing are going…

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

No women pastors/elders in the church I attend as well

...but we have women deacons,
women who meet together to plan women's ministries,
a woman who serves as a business manager (reporting offerings, checks and balances, budget etc.),
women who organize and direct family outings,
women who teach children and youth,
women who organize women's events and teach them,
women missionaries,
women who serve the needy and who and organize groups to provide meals for them,

they serve a pastoral role by another name, imho,

Oh, we have men's ministries as well. lol

Rob

Do you have Sunday school & who teaches there?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Look this is an angle to sell church to women by getting them more involved. It’s a gimmick and one thing that’s leading to the liberalization of churches … evidence the Episcopal, Methodist, Presbyterian churches which are all diminished.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

If Rick Warren wants to have female pastors - and he knows the SBC does not so endorse - why would he want to stay in the SBC?

He if free to go with the CBF, AoB or even the ABC!

Thank you.. so what’s his real agenda? How bout growing his church by using the SBC and makin a name for himself in the process

 

[Deacon]

Do you have Sunday school & who teaches there?

Men and women teach SS.
Often it’s family teams, husband and wife.

Rob

 

[MrW]

Actually, we should care
Why
So when a church member asks about it - then we can intelligently discuss the issue so they can understand what the Bible says

If a church member asked--or even if they did not ask--I would point them to Scripture, not to Warren. I don't mean that to sound short or unkind--I simply mean that the answer to a member's question should come from Scripture alone, and the "asker" should disregard Warren when Warren goes against Scripture, and women pastors are not Scriptural. The pastor must be the husband of one wife, for example, and no matter what government claims, women cannot marry women (nor can men marry women, but that's plain, too). If I had to take a stand, I would be an enemy of Warren's more than a friend.

 

[MrW]

Men and women teach SS.
Often it’s family teams, husband and wife.

Rob

I don't have a problem with them teaching SS together. In the first place, SS is not a New Testament organization anyhow.

The woman is not to usurp the authority of the man, nor can she be a pastor, but I think she can certainly assist her husband, after all, Priscilla and Aquilla taught Apollos together.

 

[MrW]

I had to look up NT Wright:

Nearly Everything Wrong with N. T. Wright Summed Up in One Chapter Heading

I don't know if this link is allowed--if not, please delete it or tell me and I will try to delete it. But I thought it germane to the discussion, because I don't see him as a reliable authority after reading about him.

 

[tyndale1946]

Ohhh, the way thing are going…

I guess if your a preacher in Scotland, they don't mind the male clergy wear, I guess you can say skirts?... Brother Glen

Take that Rick Warren!

 

[Van]

1 Timothy 2:15 NLT
But women will be saved through childbearing,* assuming they continue to live in faith, love, holiness, and modesty.
_____________________________
* Footnote:
2:15 Or will be saved by accepting their role as mothers, or will be saved by the birth of the Child. ​

So far, we have heard that the women actually refers to one particular woman, Eve. The first leap of supposition comes from taking "she" or "woman" or women to refer to Eve, the woman in view in the preceding verse. The "they" plural, points to women in general rather than an individual.

The idea that some kind of salvation is brought about by giving birth to a child or over time to children is dubious at best. Here is where the two options of the NLT footnote come into play. I think the first option, performing their role as mothers, is probably correct, as the qualifiers point to that job, rather than the fact Mary gave birth to Christ.

So they, all humans no matter the gender, are saved if they (1) continue to the end, (2) believed and spiritually baptized into Christ, (3) enters through the door of Christ, (4) call on the name of the Lord, (5) are part of the remnant of believers and (6) are part of "all Israel." Here women are saved provided they continue to exercise their role in faith, love and the holiness provided by self-restraint.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I guess if your a preacher in Scotland, they don't mind the male clergy wear, I guess you can say skirts?... Brother Glen

Take that Rick Warren!

Now what do you wear underneath that’s the question!

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Men and women teach SS.
Often it’s family teams, husband and wife.

Rob

Okay thanks

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I had to look up NT Wright:

Nearly Everything Wrong with N. T. Wright Summed Up in One Chapter Heading

I don't know if this link is allowed--if not, please delete it or tell me and I will try to delete it. But I thought it germane to the discussion, because I don't see him as a reliable authority after reading about him.

He is an Anglican. That tells me all I need to know.

 

[tyndale1946]

Now what do you wear underneath that’s the question!

Bvd's or boxers... I guess now you want to know which brand?... Brother Glen