T
TaterTot
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good grief 
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Rick Warren's Wacky environmental agenda
- Thread starter Martin
- Start date
computerjunkie
New Member
What I find astonishing is that some of the very people on this board who think Christians are too "worldly" are familiar with the words and tunes of some of the most secular music.
Of course, that's assuming "Purple Haze" is secular. I've never heard of it/them.
CJ
Of course, that's assuming "Purple Haze" is secular. I've never heard of it/them.
CJ
I disagree with Rick Warren. Hope that suffices.
You stole my words, dude.
PastorSBC1303
Active Member
It sure does. I disagree with some of Warren's stuff as well. But I am not going to question his salvation and the fact that God has used him to impact peoples lives for the Kingdom as some here in this thread appear to do.
I have never understood why people feel the need to constantly tear at each other.
Galatians 5:13-15 "You, my brothers, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature; rather, serve one another in love. The entire law can be summed up in a single command: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' If you keep on biting and devouring each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other."
eloidalmanutha
New Member
Elijah mocked, Jesus mocked, Paul mocked, Peter mocked.
Perhaps we need a refresher course in how Jesus said to treat someone He calls a tax collector [publican]. Or how Paul instructed [same as Jesus] what we are to do to people who refuse to teach the truth. When that person refuses to listen, we are to walk away/withdraw as a sign of contempt, and to expose them in front of others.
Paul turned them over to satan
Perhaps we need a refresher course in how Jesus said to treat someone He calls a tax collector [publican]. Or how Paul instructed [same as Jesus] what we are to do to people who refuse to teach the truth. When that person refuses to listen, we are to walk away/withdraw as a sign of contempt, and to expose them in front of others.
Paul turned them over to satan
PastorSBC1303
Active Member
I find it hard to believe that Jesus or any of those you listed would agree with the foolishness that has taken place on this thread.
eloidalmanutha
New Member
What Paul wrote in Gal 5 has to do with pettiness among believers. Refuting RW is not pettiness, it's a matter of life and death.
It does not matter if some perceive that he is preaching the gospel. What matters is the truth. I would rather judge RW because he is not preaching the Word and expose him, then to stand before God and say well "it was sort of the gospel . . . and Rick just wanted to be 'seeker sensitive' and 'purpose driven' - I was just giving him the benefit of the doubt - you know, 'seeing the good in all people', blah blah blah . . ."
GET REAL PEOPLE!!!
It does not matter if some perceive that he is preaching the gospel. What matters is the truth. I would rather judge RW because he is not preaching the Word and expose him, then to stand before God and say well "it was sort of the gospel . . . and Rick just wanted to be 'seeker sensitive' and 'purpose driven' - I was just giving him the benefit of the doubt - you know, 'seeing the good in all people', blah blah blah . . ."
GET REAL PEOPLE!!!
PastorSBC1303
Active Member
Really? Can you show me this in Galatians? I do not see Paul addressing pettiness at all. I see him writing some challenging words to a group of people who were facing issues of life and death. Did you forget the first chapter of Galatians?
standingfirminChrist
New Member
Actually computer junkie,
I do not know the tune to Purple haze. I just replaced the same amount of syllables posted in first verse in the 2nd and 3rd. I actually found a hymn that I can sing it to if you prefer I say it is to the tune of a hymn.
I am not bashing Rick Warren, I am bashing the movement that lifts self pride and self motivation. Our boasting should be on nothing but the Lord, and our motivation should be His Holy Word.
I do not know the tune to Purple haze. I just replaced the same amount of syllables posted in first verse in the 2nd and 3rd. I actually found a hymn that I can sing it to if you prefer I say it is to the tune of a hymn.
I am not bashing Rick Warren, I am bashing the movement that lifts self pride and self motivation. Our boasting should be on nothing but the Lord, and our motivation should be His Holy Word.
PastorSBC1303
Active Member
You say that here, but your words in other places on this thread and other threads speak very loudly in the other direction.
It is sad to see believers that feel it is appropriate to throw stones at others. He who is without sin cast the first stone...
standingfirminChrist
New Member
I have never ever on this thread, or any other said Rick was not saved. I question his motives, yes. We all should when they do not line up with the Word of God.
Mocking? As pointed out by Eloidalmanutha, Elijah mocked. He mocked the prophets of Baal. 'surely your god is sleeping' 'maybe he is on vacation' etc.
God will not hold us accountable for mocking if it brings to light the false gods and false beliefs of others.
Mocking? As pointed out by Eloidalmanutha, Elijah mocked. He mocked the prophets of Baal. 'surely your god is sleeping' 'maybe he is on vacation' etc.
God will not hold us accountable for mocking if it brings to light the false gods and false beliefs of others.
eloidalmanutha
New Member
Jesus:
13 ¶ But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up the kingdom of Heaven before men; for you do not enter, nor do you allow those entering to go in.
14 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you devour the houses of widows, and pray at length as a pretext. Because of this you will receive more abundant judgment.
15 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you go about the sea and the dry land to make one proselyte; and when he has become so, you make him twofold more a son of Hell than yourselves.
16 Woe to you, blind guides, who say, Whoever swears by the Holy Place, it is nothing; but whoever swears by the gold of the Holy Place is a debtor.
17 Fools and blind! For which is greater, the gold, or the Holy Place that sanctifies the gold?
18 And you say, Whoever swears by the altar, it is nothing; but whoever swears by the gift on it, he is a debtor.
19 Fools and blind! For which is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifies the gift?
20 Then the one swearing by the altar swears by it, and by all things on it.
21 And the one swearing by the Holy Place swears by it, and by the One dwelling in it.
22 And the one swearing by Heaven swears by the throne of God, and by the One sitting on it.
23 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithes of mint and dill and cummin, and you have left aside the weightier matters of the Law: judgment, and mercy, and faith. It was right to do these, and not to have left those aside.
24 Blind guides, straining out the gnat, but swallowing the camel!
25 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you cleanse the outside of the cup and of the dish, but within they are full of robbery and excess.
26 Blind Pharisee! First cleanse the inside of the cup and of the dish, that the outside of them may become clean also.
27 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitened graves which outwardly indeed appear beautiful, but within are full of bones of the dead, and of all uncleanness.
28 So you also indeed outwardly appear righteous to men, but within are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.
29 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you build the tombs of the prophets, and adorn the tombs of the righteous.
30 And you say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
31 So you witness to yourselves that you are the sons of those who murdered the prophets.
32 And you fill up the measure of your fathers.
33 Serpents! Offspring of vipers! How shall you escape the judgment of Hell?
Paul:
Galatians 3
1 ¶ O foolish Galatians, who bewitched you not to obey the truth, to whom before your eyes Jesus Christ was written before among you crucified?
2 This only I desire to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by works of Law or by hearing of faith?
3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, do you now perfect yourself in the flesh?
4 Did you suffer so much vainly, if indeed it also was vainly?
5 Then He supplying the Spirit to you and working works of power in you, is it by works of Law or by hearing of faith?
God mocked Israel for her refusal to listen to the Truth through the mouths of His prophets. Nothing new under the sun. You want to support a man who perverts the gospel for self gain and gains the adulation of men - then contempt and sarcasm will be the end result - the judgment of God will not compare.
I'm questioning his philosophy which is a easy going dont' come on to straight foward. Be mellow give everybody what they want. (Note the many worship venues at Saddleback). Speak anywhere you can get an audience to promote your agenda regardless whether or not those who you hangin with could care less about the Gospel.
AND FOR THE RECORD,
RW DID HIS OWN BASHING BTW. HE HAS A MUCH GREATER INFLUENCE AND A MUCH GREATER AUDIENCE THAN US HERE AT THE BB. HE TOLD THE WORLD THAT THE ONE OF THE GREATEST THREATS TO THE 21ST CENTURY WAS FUNDAMENTAL CHRISTIANITY ALONG WITH OTHER FUNDAMENTAL BRANCHES OF RELIGION.
I GET PRETTY HOT AND BOTHERED WHEN FUNDAMENTAL CHRISTIANS ARE MENTIONED AS A THREAT WITH IN THE SAME SENTENCES OR PARAGRAPH THAT MENTIONS FUNDAMENTAL MUSLIMS.
I DON'T SEE FUNDAMENTAL CHRISTIANS GOING AROUND BLOWING UP PEOPLE, BUSES AND PUBLIC PLACES WHEN SOMEBODY TAKES JESUS NAME IN VAIN OR RUNS OUR LORD'S NAME DOWN IN A FILTHY MOVIE.
I'VE NEVER CALLED RW A NAME PERSONALLY BUT THAT
STATEMENT WAS MADE IN A WAY TO PUMP HIMSELF AND HIS MOVEMENT UP AND MAKE EVERYBODY WHO DOESNT'SEE IT HIS WAY AS WACKO EXTREMISTS.
HERE WE HAVE A MAINSTREAM ,EVANGELICAL PASTOR SETTING A PRECENDENT THAT WILL ONE DAY BE POSSIBLY USED TO MARGINALIZE A PARTICULAR GROUP OF CHRISTIANS. YOU SAY PEOPLE ON THE BB ARE CHILDISH?
HE CAME ACROSS AS A SELF SERVING OPPORTUNISTIC JERK WHEN HE MADE THOSE STATEMENTS. HE PUT DOWN A PARTICULAR GROUP OF HIS FELLOW BRETHERN WHILE AT THE SAME TIME MAKING HIMSELF LOOK GOOD. FOLK HERE MAY BE GUILTY OF DOING THAT. YET NOBODY HERE IS CLAIMING TO LEAD A SECOND REFORMATION EITHER. WHAT A CLAIM. I WONDER IF MARTIN LUTHER WAS RUNNING AROUND TELLING EVERYBODY " HEY I'M GOING TO LEAD A REFORMATION" GIVE ME A BREAK.
YOU G
N AND CONVINCE YOURSELF THAT SOME KJVO LEGALISTIC FUNDAMENTALIST BROTHER THAT MAY HAVE HIS HAT ON TO TIGHT IS AS DANGEROUS TO THE 21ST CENTURY WORLD AS SOME FUNDAMENTALIST MUSLIM.
IF YOU CAN BACK UP RW'S COMMENTS ON THAT THEN YOU BY ALL MEANS ARE SYMBOLICALLY DRINKING THE KOOL-AID AS MUCH AS THE JIM JONES FOLLOWERS LITERALLY DRANK IT BACK IN THE DAY.
MARK IT DOWN RW MAY PRESENT THE GOSPEL NOW ALTHOUGH VERY SHALLOW AT BEST. BUT YOU'VE GOT YOUR HEAD IN THE SAND IF YOU CAN'T SEE THAT HE IS HEADED TO A ALL INCLUSIVE, SOCIAL TYPE OF MESSAGE. IT IS JUST A MATTER OF TIME.
AND FOR THE RECORD,
RW DID HIS OWN BASHING BTW. HE HAS A MUCH GREATER INFLUENCE AND A MUCH GREATER AUDIENCE THAN US HERE AT THE BB. HE TOLD THE WORLD THAT THE ONE OF THE GREATEST THREATS TO THE 21ST CENTURY WAS FUNDAMENTAL CHRISTIANITY ALONG WITH OTHER FUNDAMENTAL BRANCHES OF RELIGION.
I GET PRETTY HOT AND BOTHERED WHEN FUNDAMENTAL CHRISTIANS ARE MENTIONED AS A THREAT WITH IN THE SAME SENTENCES OR PARAGRAPH THAT MENTIONS FUNDAMENTAL MUSLIMS.
I DON'T SEE FUNDAMENTAL CHRISTIANS GOING AROUND BLOWING UP PEOPLE, BUSES AND PUBLIC PLACES WHEN SOMEBODY TAKES JESUS NAME IN VAIN OR RUNS OUR LORD'S NAME DOWN IN A FILTHY MOVIE.
I'VE NEVER CALLED RW A NAME PERSONALLY BUT THAT
STATEMENT WAS MADE IN A WAY TO PUMP HIMSELF AND HIS MOVEMENT UP AND MAKE EVERYBODY WHO DOESNT'SEE IT HIS WAY AS WACKO EXTREMISTS.
HERE WE HAVE A MAINSTREAM ,EVANGELICAL PASTOR SETTING A PRECENDENT THAT WILL ONE DAY BE POSSIBLY USED TO MARGINALIZE A PARTICULAR GROUP OF CHRISTIANS. YOU SAY PEOPLE ON THE BB ARE CHILDISH?
HE CAME ACROSS AS A SELF SERVING OPPORTUNISTIC JERK WHEN HE MADE THOSE STATEMENTS. HE PUT DOWN A PARTICULAR GROUP OF HIS FELLOW BRETHERN WHILE AT THE SAME TIME MAKING HIMSELF LOOK GOOD. FOLK HERE MAY BE GUILTY OF DOING THAT. YET NOBODY HERE IS CLAIMING TO LEAD A SECOND REFORMATION EITHER. WHAT A CLAIM. I WONDER IF MARTIN LUTHER WAS RUNNING AROUND TELLING EVERYBODY " HEY I'M GOING TO LEAD A REFORMATION" GIVE ME A BREAK.
YOU G
N AND CONVINCE YOURSELF THAT SOME KJVO LEGALISTIC FUNDAMENTALIST BROTHER THAT MAY HAVE HIS HAT ON TO TIGHT IS AS DANGEROUS TO THE 21ST CENTURY WORLD AS SOME FUNDAMENTALIST MUSLIM.IF YOU CAN BACK UP RW'S COMMENTS ON THAT THEN YOU BY ALL MEANS ARE SYMBOLICALLY DRINKING THE KOOL-AID AS MUCH AS THE JIM JONES FOLLOWERS LITERALLY DRANK IT BACK IN THE DAY.
MARK IT DOWN RW MAY PRESENT THE GOSPEL NOW ALTHOUGH VERY SHALLOW AT BEST. BUT YOU'VE GOT YOUR HEAD IN THE SAND IF YOU CAN'T SEE THAT HE IS HEADED TO A ALL INCLUSIVE, SOCIAL TYPE OF MESSAGE. IT IS JUST A MATTER OF TIME.
PastorSBC1303
Active Member
Really? Next you are going to say that God lead you to the foolish song you came up with to mock.
Ok it is clear you all enjoy justifying your own foolishness. Have at it, I am done with this conversation.
You say that here, but your words in other places on this thread and other threads speak very loudly in the other direction.
It is sad to see believers that feel it is appropriate to throw stones at others. He who is without sin cast the first stone... </font>[/QUOTE]Ah yes. The famous "Can't we all get along approach" What you are missing, is that Rick Warren, did in fact sing Jim Hendrix's Puple Haze at angels stadium to 30,000 people backed up by his church band (yeah, he's cool, said he always wanted to do that). Jimi Hendrix used drugs (they eventually killed him) revelled in sexual immorality, and also sang such other "classic" songs as "voodoo-child". Purple haze was a form of LSD.Oh yeah, I almost forgot that he had a plaster cast of his penis made, so that it could be made into a statue and live on. There is a tour that has it on display.
Do you wish to sweep this kind of behavior, which shows very little discernment by Rick Warren "endorsing" it by his actions, under the carpet? To me, Rick Warren is no more than a merchant preacher.
Marcia
Active Member
What if she had instead read from the Bible, the only Book that has the true power to convict? Self help is not Holy Spirit conviction. </font>[/QUOTE]I agree the Bible would have been better, but we still don't know he would have become a Christian. It's entirely possible he still would have become Muslim.
I am not defending all Rick Warren does and says and I have issues with PDL, but I think it's a real stretch to imply that the guy become a Muslim because Ashley read from PDL!
The problem with threads like this is that no middle ground is recognized. Once again: I do NOT agree with all Rick Warren does and says, but I also consider him a brother in Christ. I think it's fine to critique some of his teachings that seem problematic but we should be fair. There are a lot worse people out there than Rick Warren -- like Osteen.
Marcia
Active Member
Don't look now, Blackhawk, but you are on a Debate Board! If you don't like the debates, there's always the Christian Fellowship forums on the lower half of the Board.Originally posted by Blackhawkk:
Man, I thought I joined a Christian board
So much arguing, but hey
We've done Osteen some. Of course, I don't call it "slamming." It's called examining according to scripture, the way the Bereans did.Joel Olsteen I have seen. Do Christians really need more self-help gurus to make them feel good? I my advice to everyone here: there are web-sites that have great sermons from Godly men that I think everyone would benefit from. Listen to the sermons form great men of God such as Leonard Ravenhill, A.W. Tozer, Paris Reidhead, Ian Paisley. After some of this preaching you'll all fall down on your knees begging God's forgiveness. Receiving Jesus, holiness, it wiil all fall in place what our priorities are as Christians.....
Now let's slam Joel Olsteen!
It's perfectly biblical to critique and examine any man's teachings -- no matter who it is!!!! In fact, we are supposed to do that. It just should be done fairly and according to the Bible.
What if she had instead read from the Bible, the only Book that has the true power to convict? Self help is not Holy Spirit conviction. </font>[/QUOTE]I agree the Bible would have been better, but we still don't know he would have become a Christian. It's entirely possible he still would have become Muslim.
I am not defending all Rick Warren does and says and I have issues with PDL, but I think it's a real stretch to imply that the guy become a Muslim because Ashley read from PDL!
The problem with threads like this is that no middle ground is recognized. Once again: I do NOT agree with all Rick Warren does and says, but I also consider him a brother in Christ. I think it's fine to critique some of his teachings that seem problematic but we should be fair. There are a lot worse people out there than Rick Warren -- like Osteen. </font>[/QUOTE]You know Marcia, I do not beleive that there is some kind of sliding scale of what is acceptable or not. Either it is sound doctrine, or it is garbage.
Marcia
Active Member
Well, I have to disagree. There are points that Christians can disagree on and there are teachings that are problematic but not heretical. RW does not deny that Jesus is Christ, the only way to heaven, as far as I know. If he does start to compromise that, that would be a big problem, but I would want to see hard evidence for it. Quotes out of context or newspaper accounts are not enough.
I read PDL and I have writing in the margins all over the place where I disagree or question what he says. I also marked where I agreed strongly with him. I do see him going in some directions that bother me, but I don't see enough to say he is wrong all the time and he has not denied any essentials of the faith.
I read PDL and I have writing in the margins all over the place where I disagree or question what he says. I also marked where I agreed strongly with him. I do see him going in some directions that bother me, but I don't see enough to say he is wrong all the time and he has not denied any essentials of the faith.