Bro. Williams
New Member
Ed Edwards said:
What do those with an NIV do when Lucifer is called the "morning star" in their bible?
Bob, I will try to add more thought to the conversation tomorrow, Lord willing, if I get a chance.
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Rider on the White Horse
- Thread starter Bro. Williams
- Start date
What do those with an NIV do when Lucifer is called the "morning star" in their bible?
Bob, I will try to add more thought to the conversation tomorrow, Lord willing, if I get a chance.
Ed Edwards
<img src=/Ed.gif>
They have lots less dificulties in life knowing thatBro. Williams said:What do those with an NIV do when Lucifer is called the "morning star" in their bible?
...
in Isaiah 14 that the morning star is a metaphor
for The King of Babylon (and by type Satan)
and in Revelation the morning star is a metaphor
for Messiah Yeshua.
Meanwhile, the blind lead the blind telling
everybody that the lead devil's name is
'Lucifer' and that Jesus really is Venus in the
Morning Star position.
Brother Bob
New Member
Ed Ewards:
I honestly thought I would be alone on this stance. Lucifer has been taught as being satan for so long, its almost a given. Thank you,Meanwhile, the blind lead the blind telling
everybody that the lead devil's name is
'Lucifer' and that Jesus really is Venus in the
Morning Star position.
Bro. Williams
New Member
Guys, I really do hate to be a party pooper... but I was in meetings all day long and I just don't have it in me to develop much thought on this. I will try to get back to this thread sometime... when I can...
Ed Edwards
<img src=/Ed.gif>
Ah, reality intruding -- that happens.
I promise not to say anything profound until
you get a chance to respond :1_grouphug:
I promise not to say anything profound until
you get a chance to respond :1_grouphug:
ByGracethroughFaith
New Member
Bro. Williams said:Surely this thread is a ret(h)read...
Who is the Rider on the White Horse?
Revelation 6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.
My understanding is that since it was the Lamb that opened one of the seals in verse 1 to reveal a rider on a white horse, that it could not be the Lamb on the horse. It must be the imitation christ or Antichrist as he is more familiarly known.
BGTF
PASTOR MHG
New Member
The passage in Rev. ch. 6 seems pretty clear to me...it is the description of the Rise of Antichrist. It is the route he takes to acheive his desired end of assuming world leadership.
Notice...
1. White horse/Bow(w/o arrows) -- He is a peacemaker. He lulls the world to sleep by promising and seemingly delivering (by way of disarmamment) peace.
2. Red horse/sword -- Now that he has their trust he assumes the role of a military dictator...using force where necessary to maintain order and rule.
3. Black horse/balances -- Now he controls the global economy...buy and selling (the mark required)...no one able to resist or revolt because they have been disarmed.
4. Pale horse/ Death -- He goes on a killing spree of all those who oppose him. Demonstrating his power at the expense of many martyrs.
I hope this helps.
Max
Notice...
1. White horse/Bow(w/o arrows) -- He is a peacemaker. He lulls the world to sleep by promising and seemingly delivering (by way of disarmamment) peace.
2. Red horse/sword -- Now that he has their trust he assumes the role of a military dictator...using force where necessary to maintain order and rule.
3. Black horse/balances -- Now he controls the global economy...buy and selling (the mark required)...no one able to resist or revolt because they have been disarmed.
4. Pale horse/ Death -- He goes on a killing spree of all those who oppose him. Demonstrating his power at the expense of many martyrs.
I hope this helps.
Max
Brother Bob
New Member
We could go back and forth for a week and neither one of us prove for sure what it means.The passage in Rev. ch. 6 seems pretty clear to me...it is the description of the Rise of Antichrist. It is the route he takes to acheive his desired end of assuming world leadership.
I gave my thoughts, so I let it go at that, except Jesus open all the seals, not just one.
Bro. Williams
New Member
Alright, finally got a day off and time enough to look at this thread again.
Would you all agree Ezekial 28:11-19 is speaking of Satan?
Would you all agree Ezekial 28:11-19 is speaking of Satan?
Brother Bob
New Member
Well, I do not agree it was Satan. I think its more of a poetic language describing how that we all are at one time when children and then come to know God and Glorify Him not as God. Also, it plainly says "he is a man", and it says there was trading going on of merchandise and I don't believe that is happening where God is.Bro Williams Would you all agree Ezekial 28:11-19 is speaking of Satan?
Ezek:
2: Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:
16: By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
17: Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
I understand that the orginal name for Lucifer in the text was morning star and not Lucifer.
Others may have a different idea and maybe you do too Bro Williams.
BBob,
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Bro. Williams
New Member
How could this prince have been in the garden then?
Brother Bob
New Member
Many people consider children in the Garden. Especially in a poetic language .
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Bro. Williams
New Member
What about his makeup of musical instruments?
Brother Bob
New Member
It was all considered poetic language. I think there was even a song, but not sure.
Bro. Williams
New Member
So you take it figuratively and not literally? Am I correct?
Where does one get that notion from, if I may ask?
Where does one get that notion from, if I may ask?
Brother Bob
New Member
Well some take it figuratively and some take it figuratively and literally who believe it represents Satan. I think my reasons are posted below, for believe he was just a man, who had never been anywhere but this earth. It was his desires of the heart, but was not to be. IMO, I could be wrong.So you take it figuratively and not literally? Am I correct?
Where does one get that notion from, if I may ask?
Ezek:
2: Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:
16: By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
17: Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
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Bro. Williams
New Member
Brother Bob said:Well some take it figuratively and some take it figuratively and literally who believe it represents Satan. I think my reasons are posted below, for believe he was just a man, who had never been anywhere but this earth. It was his desires of the heart, but was not to be. IMO, I could be wrong.
Ezek:
2: Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:
16: By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. 17: Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
I placed in blue the sections that are in the verses above that those of us who take it literally adhere to.
The part about the cherub is crucial, as well as the part regarding the mountain of God and stones of fire.
Brother Bob
New Member
All of that was supposed to already taken place with Eden.
Bro. Williams
New Member
That is a much debated topic.... the timing of the casting out of Lucifer.
Brother Bob
New Member
I must say, you can give a good argument for your stance on Ezek and Satan.
Isaiah 14:13-14:
You said in your heart, "I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly, on the utmost heights of the sacred mountain. I will ascend above the tops of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High." (NIV)
Ezek 28:14-15 You were anointed as a guardian cherub, for so I ordained you. You were on the holy mount of God; you walked among the fiery stones. You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created till wickedness was found in you. (NIV)
Ezek 31:2-9 "Son of man, say to Pharaoh king of Egypt and to his hordes: "'Who can be compared with you in majesty? 3 Consider Assyria, once a cedar in Lebanon, with beautiful branches overshadowing the forest; it towered on high, its top above the thick foliage...8 The cedars in the garden of God could not rival it, nor could the pine trees equal its boughs, nor could the plane trees compare with its branches-- no tree in the garden of God could match its beauty. 9 I made it beautiful with abundant branches, the envy of all the trees of Eden in the garden of God. (NIV)
Isaiah 14:13-14:
You said in your heart, "I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly, on the utmost heights of the sacred mountain. I will ascend above the tops of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High." (NIV)
Ezek 28:14-15 You were anointed as a guardian cherub, for so I ordained you. You were on the holy mount of God; you walked among the fiery stones. You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created till wickedness was found in you. (NIV)
Ezek 31:2-9 "Son of man, say to Pharaoh king of Egypt and to his hordes: "'Who can be compared with you in majesty? 3 Consider Assyria, once a cedar in Lebanon, with beautiful branches overshadowing the forest; it towered on high, its top above the thick foliage...8 The cedars in the garden of God could not rival it, nor could the pine trees equal its boughs, nor could the plane trees compare with its branches-- no tree in the garden of God could match its beauty. 9 I made it beautiful with abundant branches, the envy of all the trees of Eden in the garden of God. (NIV)