Rider on the White Horse

I see you are south of Lexington. There seems to be a lot of Baptist in that area. I think we have a church pretty close to you but not sure. No, I looked and its in Louisville.

 

BBob, it's good to see you quoting from the NIV. :thumbs:

 

Thanks Bro. I don't mind using another translation if its not to different to change the meaning.

 

No, I live in the very eastern tip of KY. I have a first cousin who lives in Richmond and he is a preacher.
When I first came on, I was told by a poster to stay in History and to not get up here with the "newspaper Baptist"................

 

They are about 1 hour away. My daughter did live real close to Whitesburg and her husband is a teacher for Neon. He was head football coach for Fleming Neon for several years. He got sick and had to retire for a while. I gave them a home behind me. He is driving back and forth on the weekends now and my daughter is staying in the home I gave them.

 

No, but we do have a "Turkey Creek" here and over in WV. they have a "Ugly Creek".
I hear a preacher was visiting them and said when he got up " I sure am glad to see all you Ugly people......

 

Bro Bob
How can you say that Satan was never in heaven?
Rev 12:7-9
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Both Isa 14 and Ezek 28 refer to Satan, the devil, the dragon...
Isa 14:12-16
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;

Ezek 28:12-19
12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.
When you read JFB, Henry, et al, you should keep in mind that they did not believe in a future for Israel or that Revelation was future. All is allegorized to make their theology consistent with the eschatology of Augustine and the RCC. The reformed tradition rejected the soteriology of the RCC, but they accepted it’s ecclesiology and eschatology hook, line, and sinker.

Bro Williams,
Re the rider on the white horse, nope, not Jesus.
(See pm I sent you, re Mayking, KY.)

 

Because there are more heavens than one. Nothing unclean has ever been were God is.

Keep reading please, don't stop there. You want to know when this happened don't you and how it happened?

Rev 12:10And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

Rev 12:11And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

When did Salvation and strength come and the Kingdom which is with in you. When did it come?

How was sin conquered? When was the price paid for sin? When did man become willing to die for to be with Christ is far better? I ask you, when?

 

The name Lucifer was not in the original text.

Yes, the prince of Tyre said that, but God told him he was just a man, and was not as God, that he would be destroyed. The prince said it in his heart and that was his desires, but he never got there.

 

Where do you get that? Why is the first earth AND the first heaven destroyed?

Sorry, I can not hold to a historic interpretation of Revelation. This is not past, this is future. The fullness of the kingdom has not yet come. Things are not getting better. The Church is not spreading throughout the earth. The kingdom will not be here till the KING gets here!

There is nothing in the context to support a reading of Rev 12:10-11 as having been fulfilled in the past!

I used to say that you cannot understand Revelation, or the Olivet Discourse without first understanding Daniel. I do not say that any more. Now I say that you cannot understand Revelation unless you first understand Genesis 12,15, 17, et al. The unconditional promises to Abraham are foundational to the understanding of ALL BIBLE PROPHECY!
Gen 12:1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father’s house, unto a land that I will shew thee: 2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
Gen 15:18 In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:
Gen 17:8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.
Gen 48:4 And said unto me, Behold, I will make thee fruitful, and multiply thee, and I will make of thee a multitude of people; and will give this land to thy seed after thee for an everlasting possession.

If you read the Kingdom as being fulfilled in the church, you are reading out Israel. If you read out Israel you have denied the unconditional promises of the Abrahamic Covenant, the Land Covenant of Deut 29-30, the Davidic Covenant, and the New Covenant. You can only do that by denying the literal words of the OT and reinterpreting just about ALL OT prophecy on the basis of a view that replaces Israel with the Church. If God’s promises to Abraham are not sure, how can we trust anything else that He has said? If the election of Israel was conditional how can we maintain the security of the saints today?

As far as reading the rest of the chapter, the earth has not yet helped Israel, she has not yet been given wings and protection in the wilderness, we have not yet seen the time and times and half a time...

Satan is STILL accusing the brethren before the throne of God, that is why we must have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.

Satan not in God’s presence? Is Job 1 figurative and poetic as well? Was there a real person named Job? If he was real, how can you deny the beginning of the account?

Job 1:6-7
6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

Job 2:1-2
1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.
2 And the LORD said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

Sure sounds to me like Satan had access to presence of God.

 

That is not where God is.
Job 28:7[There is] a path which no fowl knoweth, and which the vulture's eye hath not seen:

Job 28:8The lion's whelps have not trodden it, nor the fierce lion passed by it.

Job 28:12¶But where shall wisdom be found? and where [is] the place of understanding?

Job 28:20Whence then cometh wisdom? and where [is] the place of understanding?

Job 28:28And unto man he said, Behold, the fear of the Lord, that [is] wisdom; and to depart from evil [is] understanding.

Really? Is this the future?

Rev.12

[1] And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
[2] And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
[3] And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
[4] And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
[5] And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
[6] And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Rev.2

[1] Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;
[2] I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:
[3] And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.
[4] Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
[5] Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

You still waiting for the Lord to come and die and conquer over death hell and the grave? To make a way where we could have "Salvation" and "Strength" in the Lord? You do not believe the church was taken out of the flesh and put in the heart?

Well, for sure that is the same mistake they made that the Kingdom was a spiritual Kingdom. Why would God need a natural Kingdom when He seeks such to worship Him in Spirit and Truth? If everything else is Spiritual in the resurrection why would God have a natural Kingdom. Do you know that doctrine was silenced for 1600 years until John Darby came along. I think there was one before him. Inwardly we are in the Kingdom, outwardly we will be changed so the flesh can be there also. The last enemy will be destroyed and then will the Kingdom be delivered UP to the Father.

2Cr 13:5Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

I already got Him!!

Col 1:12Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:

Col 1:13Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated [us] into the kingdom of his dear Son:

Col 1:18And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence.

Col 1:27To whom God would make known what [is] the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

 

I'll get this one, rj. The last verse is -- it is the rapture followed by the persecution of the remnant/144,000.

No, no, and not yet. See, we are part of the "manchild" and that is why the 1260 days awaits the tribulation.

Yeah, you're in the SPIRITUAL kingdom now. Your body isn't fully glorified yet so you are NOT in the God's kingdom which is to be delivered up by the Son at the end of the MK future.

If you are saying that we are in the physical kingdom now, you make the same mistakes the Catholics do who, seeing they had no real Christ, have a "Vicar(ious) Christ" living and ruling in it.

skypair

 

Interesting note ...

... on the white horse and the horses ...

Arthur Pink believed that they represent the "4 gospels" of Satan as "written" by his horsemen. (They are presented by the 4 beasts of heaven who represent Christ's gospels).

Any thoughts?

skypair

 

RE: White horse

I goofed!! See post directly below!!

 

RE: White horse

Isn't this where the Thornton Union association of ORBs have their annual association? I know there are quite a few ORB churches in the Knott, Perry, Letcher couty area. The Old Indian Bottom, Indian Bottom, New Salem, Thornton Union associations all have churches in this area.

 

So, we are going to get another "man child" to rule all nations with a rod of iron. I guess we have 2 Jesus's then?

If you do not believe that Salvation has already come and the blood shed to overcome Satan and sin. What can I say?

Rev 12:10And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

Rev 12:11And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

And who's Spiritual Kingdom do you think it is. Scripture says "Kingdom of God" is within you.

Luk 17:21Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Col 1:13Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated [us] into the kingdom of his dear Son:

I never said we were in a physical Kingdom, the Kingdom is Spiritual and the flesh still awaits his deliverance into that Kingdom, then will it be delivered UP to the Father after death has been destroyed. The soul will be Spiritual, the body will be Spiritual and the Kingdom will be Spiritual.

1Cr 15:24Then [cometh] the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

A lot of Baptist are standing in line with the Jews still looking for the Messiah.