37818
Well-Known Member
So God commaning man does not make man against murder and to have off spring is not constute that there is a God given right of life to man? Silly if it is not.
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Right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness
- Thread starter JonC
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37818
Well-Known Member
So the command to life as a responsibility does not amount to God givening man a right to life. Which means you believe our DOI is based on a Satanic lie (John 8:44).
No, not silly. All rights belong to God (the Potter has rights over the clay).
If men had the right to life (apart from a political context) then God is guilty of violating man's rights.
Men do not have the right to take another man's life. This means within a specific context we have a right to life, but not outside that context.
If I due by being attacked by an animal my rights have not been violated. If I die in an automobile accident, my rights have not been violated. If I die if a disease my rights have not been violated.
I cannot have a right over something that is not mine.
No, it doesn't. Parents die. God telling Jonah to go to Nineveh was not a right to life.
You are mistaken about me believing the DOI a lie. I believe the DOI is a political document declaring our independence from England and concerned with the governance of a people.
Within a government men have those rights simply because a government does not have the right to take them. God has endowed men with life. A government has no authority to take what God has given.
37818
Well-Known Member
That is a silly argument. God as God did not by giving man a right to life negate His sovereignty over man in all things.
This is simply saying God has the right to violate man's rights.
The difference is simply that I do not see God's actions as a violation....ever.
Is God not sovereign when somebody is murdered?
37818
Well-Known Member
Either the claims of the God given rights to life, liberty and the persuit of happiness are true or they are a falsehood. If a falsehood, Satanic being that Satan is the father of lies (John 8:44).
37818
Well-Known Member
You are not making sense. God has never gave man any rights over His sovereignty.
Man's right to life ended with the fall.
37818
Well-Known Member
You do not know what you are talking about.
Genesis 9:6 was after the fall which said, ". . . Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man. . . ."
Even the commandment, Exodus 20:13, "Thou shalt not murder."
Good point. The issue remains context and what the DOI is actually stating.
37818
Well-Known Member
Does not change the issue. Either the DOI states a truth or it does not. If our DOI is false . . . .
37818
Well-Known Member
I agree on this point.
That was a prohibition against murder. Nothing more.
It absolutely changes the issue.
If the DOI is a theological document then it is a lie.
If the DOI is a political science document then it is true.
The reason it matters is the context changes.
Within a political context God has endowed people with qualities that nobody has a right to take away. The reason is these things are not given by people or a government.
In this context men are justly entitled to the right of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness because these are given not by a government but by God and are not dependent on secular government.
In a theological context, however, God gives and sustains our life. This is not something to which we are entitled but something we have at His mercy. God can take our life, liberty, even the ability to pursue our own happiness without violating our rights.
Men can stand before a government and de large the government has violated their rights. Men have absolutely no ground to stand before God and make this claim.
To clarify, do you believe that God violates our right to life when we die (that the right to life is ontological to men)?
I'm not saying unjustly (I know you believe God is sovereign and just). But is our loss of life a violation of an inherent right?
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