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"Righteous faith"

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unprofitable

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Van said "If God instilled via Irresistible Grace, the "Gift of Faith" He would have to choose who to instill that faith in.

EXACTLY
 
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Van

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unprofitable said:
I have already addressed your Romans posts. They returned to the Lord with the WHOLE heart (Jeremiah 24:7) which is the new heart of Ezekiel 36:26 by which they are FULLY PERSUADED that through Christ they might love the Lord their God with all (WHOLE) their (NEW) heart, soul, strength, might and their neighbor as themselves. This is the only way those on the good ground could persevere.

Did they give that righteous heart to themselves? It was appointed, disposed, set in order, ordained to them as is witnessed by Acts 13:48.

John 6:28-29 is not a request or asking but direction and instruction that can only be kept by those given the life of Christ to be able to do the will of God

Righteous faith or more correctly a rightly directed faith comes from the direction of the Holy Spirit in those having the life of Christ in them. Did not Israel after the flesh in the persons of the scribes and Pharisees believe they had righteous or rightly directed faith?
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Yet another post claiming the OT saints were made alive, regenerated before Christ died. Utter nonsense.Ask yourselves why did the OT saints go to Abraham's bosom, and not directly to the kingdom of God. Why did they have to wait to be made perfect?

Did anyone say the lost save themselves? Nope, so more obfuscation, more strawman argumentation, more nonsense.

And do not overlook the denial of the truths of Acts 13:48, and John 6:28-29.
 
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Van

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unprofitable said:
Van said "If God instilled via Irresistible Grace, the "Gift of Faith" He would have to choose who to instill that faith in.

EXACTLY
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Note this post edits my view to alter it. So much for engaging in a truthful discussion.
 
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unprofitable

Active Member
How can a righteous or rightly directed faith come out of one who is unrighteous and without the right direction of the Holy Spirit?

Matthew 7:18 tells us "A good tree cannot bring forth evil (by unrighteous or misdirected faith) fruit, neither can a corrupt tree (possessing unrighteous or misdirected faith) bring forth good (directed by the Holy Spirit) fruit (by Rightly directed faith)
 
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unprofitable

Active Member
Van said:
Yet another post claiming the OT saints were made alive, regenerated before Christ died. Utter nonsense.Ask yourselves why did the OT saints go to Abraham's bosom, and not directly to the kingdom of God. Why did they have to wait to be made perfect?

Did anyone say the lost save themselves? Nope, so more obfuscation, more strawman argumentation, more nonsense.

And do not overlook the denial of the truths of Acts 13:48, and John 6:28-29.
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You must have not read my post #120
 
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Van

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unprofitable said:
How can a righteous or rightly directed faith come out of one who is unrighteous and without the right direction of the Holy Spirit?

Matthew 7:18 tells us "A good tree cannot bring forth evil (by unrighteous or misdirected faith) fruit, neither can a corrupt tree (possessing unrighteous or misdirected faith) bring forth good (directed by the Holy Spirit) fruit (by Rightly directed faith)
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Once again the claim our filthy rag faith was found to be righteous, the opposite of the biblical truth that God takes our worthless faith and credits it as righteousness.

Note folks, I do not engage in a discussion of the biblical view, but rather must address the constant misrepresentation of the biblical view.

God credits the faith of some as righteous faith and those so credited are transferred spiritually into Christ. So simple a child could understand it. Romans 4:23-25, 2 Thessalonians 2:13, Colossians 1:13
 
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unprofitable

Active Member
Van said:
Once again the claim our filthy rag faith was found to be righteous, the opposite of the biblical truth that God takes our worthless faith and credits it as righteousness.
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NOWHERE did I say or even insinuate as you said "filthy rag faith was found to be righteous". My point is that we are made alive in Christ and that our faith in Christ will be rightly directed by the Holy Spirit and "that not of ourselves, it is a gift of God".

Worthless faith is not a profitable faith and therefore cannot be fruitful in its human direction.

Read my posts more slowly. They may just (possibly) make some sense to you.
 
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Van

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unprofitable said:
NOWHERE did I say or even insinuate as you said "filthy rag faith was found to be righteous". My point is that we are made alive in Christ and that our faith in Christ will be rightly directed by the Holy Spirit and "that not of ourselves, it is a gift of God".

Worthless faith is not a profitable faith and therefore cannot be fruitful in its human direction.

Read my posts more slowly. They may just (possibly) make some sense to you.
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If God credits worthless faith as righreous faith, it becomes useful to God.
Faith is not the antecedent of "that" not of ourselves. The "that" refers to "salvation" as not being of ourselves.

Here is the statement that insinuates our faith was found righteous, "How can a righteous or rightly directed faith come out of one who is unrighteous and without the right direction of the Holy Spirit?" In order for a faith to "come out of one" it must have been found righreous beforehand. Obviously a misrepresentation of what I said.
 
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unprofitable

Active Member
Van said:
If God credits worthless faith as righreous faith, it becomes useful to God.
Faith is not the antecedent of "that" not of ourselves. The "that" refers to "salvation" as not being of ourselves.

Here is the statement that insinuates our faith was found righteous, "How can a righteous or rightly directed faith come out of one who is unrighteous and without the right direction of the Holy Spirit?" In order for a faith to "come out of one" it must have been found righreous beforehand. Obviously a misrepresentation of what I said.[/QUOT

How can a worthless, therefore unprofitable faith, be found righteous in that it cannot bring for good fruit?
At what point is worthless faith changed into righteous faith?
When are we found righteous that we might be justified by a worthless faith?
Not trying to twist what you are saying, just having a hard time trying to make sense of it

Faith based on a perversion of the old covenant, and for that matter perversion of the new covenant is worthless faith. An evil tree cannot bring forth food fruit.

Faith based on a righteous New Covenant understanding is a righteous faith.

These are two different faiths and cannot be mixed. New wine cannot be put into old bottles. A worthless faith can never bring forth righteousness, no matter how hard you try.
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Salty

Salty

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Six hour warning:
This thread will be closed no sooner than 8 pm EST/ 5 pm PST
 
A

AustinC

Well-Known Member
Van said:
The OT saints were able to strive to be holy, and that is what the Old Covenant asked them to do based on their faithfulness.
No verse says nor suggests any OT saint was made alive together with Christ until after Christ sacrificed His life on the cross.
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The saints of old were all chosen by God and given faith to believe. God has always done this from Adam onward.

God did not choose them because of their faith. God chose them before the foundation of the world and gave them faith to believe.
 
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AustinC

Well-Known Member
Van said:
One false charge after another, but never a quote to support the slander.

Just read Romans 4:23-25 and ask what benefit do we receive if God credits our faith as righteousness?

What did those credited with righteous faith believe?
1) They believed in God who raised Jesus from the dead,
2) They believed Jesus was delivered over for our wrongdoings,
3) They believed Jesus was raised for our justification.
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I already quoted the passage to you and showed everyone that your interpretation of faith before salvation is incorrect.
 
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