Rise of the Warrior Cop

[poncho]

I said nothing of the sort. In fact, I almost literally said the opposite. It is a no brainer that the police force needs to be able to keep control where criminals are concerned. To do this, they have to have equipment that is equal to, or better than the criminals have. The only other option is to call in the military whenever there is a big incident. Got a guy holed up in a building with an automatic weapon? The police need to be able to deal with it. This is a no-brainer.

Originally Posted by Sapper Woody
I personally am willing to go as far as it takes, provided two things: police are held accountable for their actions, and that any weapon they field is made legal to own as a personal weapon.

Aren't tanks and LRADS weapons?

The problem is police aren't being held responsible when they use these weapons and military tactics against non violent offenders and unarmed peaceful citizens that choose to put their constitutional rights to use. I believe this comes from the new paradigm we adopted right after 9/11 that everyone is guilty until proven innocent.

The problem does not lie with the training they are receiving or the equipment that they are getting. It is with the abuse of power. It is the lack of accountability for actions taken. They need the training and weaponry. To deny this is the height of ignorance. But they need to be ingrained with the old adage that "with great power comes great responsibility". And then if they step out of line, they need to be dealt with swiftly and justly.

Again you might think different if you actually read the training manuals being used to train the police. Ignoring them as you have been might help you maintain the illusion that police aren't being trained to look at us mere citizens as lower life forms and a threat to their authority for a little while longer but sooner or later the illusion will come apart at the seams as we sink even lower into tyranny.

I do not advocate for unlimited power over us, as you stated. Quite to the contrary, I advocate as little police/government involvement in anything as possible.

No one actually advocates for unlimited power over us. We just keep accepting more and more tyranny a little at a time until the govt and police will eventually have unlimited authority over us. The Stasi police state wasn't built in a day either. The people just kept accepting more and more tyranny until one they lived in a full blown police state. It's a repeating cycle throughout history.

It's called incrementalism or creeping tyranny. Hillary Clinton called it "the school of small steps" after she found out the people wouldn't accept her sweeping changes to health care all at once. Now she is a big fan of incrementalism.

Now, since you've brought it up, terrorism is indeed a threat. But there has to be a balance of protection and freedom. We've gone WAY too far into the protection realm where we are losing our freedoms. Just take a look at the TSA and the power they wield for a prime example. We, as Americans, have bought into the big scare. We've allowed the terrorists to win on our homefront by handing over freedoms in the name of safety.

The first step is realizing who really benefits from "global terrorism".

That would be your employer, Uncle Sam and the big global banks and multinational corporations he works for.

 

[Don]

How far are you willing to go with the "gotta outgun the bad guys" philosophy?

Because they have some pretty intense weapons. Are you absolutely sure that the best and brightest option is to simply arm police officers with bigger, badder things than the other people have?

Frankly, Gina, you're missing the point. Policemen with Barney Fife .38 6-round weapons were no match for criminals using military M-16s with 100-round drum magazines they had stolen during shipment, or obtained from corrupt military members.

Policemen started wearing bullet-proof vests; and someone came up with Teflon-coated "cop-killers" that would penetrate the vests.

We charge the policemen to protect us frm those that would use any--ANY--means necessary to take what you and I have. But let them ask for the weapons to at least match what the criminals are using, and we balk....

We are also responsible for holding them accountable. That includes limiting their purchases within reason (I'm not sure why police in Florida think they need tanks....) and treating them like criminals when they abuse the authority we've given them. We're failing that part.

MOST policemen understand and embrace their responsibility; we, the people, need to uphold ours.

 

[Sapper Woody]

Aren't tanks and LRADS weapons?

Yes, but my world doesn't include this at all.

The problem is police aren't being held responsible when they use these weapons and military tactics against non violent offenders and unarmed peaceful citizens that choose to put their constitutional rights to use. I believe this comes from the new paradigm we adopted right after 9/11 that everyone is guilty until proven innocent.

Which is exactly what I said.

Again you might think different if you actually read the training manuals being used to train the police. Ignoring them as you have been might help you maintain the illusion that police aren't being trained to look at us mere citizens as lower life forms and a threat to their authority for a little while longer but sooner or later the illusion will come apart at the seams as we sink even lower into tyranny.

I'll have to deal with this later. I don't have the manuals in front of me, so I can't say with 100% certainty, but I'm pretty sure this is hyperbole.

No one actually advocates for unlimited power over us. We just keep accepting more and more tyranny a little at a time until the govt and police will eventually have unlimited authority over us. The Stasi police state wasn't built in a day either. The people just kept accepting more and more tyranny until one they lived in a full blown police state. It's a repeating cycle throughout history.

It's called incrementalism or creeping tyranny. Hillary Clinton called it "the school of small steps" after she found out the people wouldn't accept her sweeping changes to health care all at once. Now she is a big fan of incrementalism.

Again, which is what I'm saying. I'm not sure if you mean your posts to come across this way or not, but I feel like my position is being attacked, even when I am agreeing with you.

The first step is realizing who really benefits from "global terrorism".

That would be your employer, Uncle Sam and the big global banks and multinational corporations he works for.

I'd have to see a lot more hard evidence before I'd buy into this line. I know it's a favorite of yours, and I don't dismiss it outright. I just don't buy into it.

 

[Sapper Woody]

As an aside, I'd be interested in seeing the numbers of how many police officers are corrupt versus how many there are, and compare these numbers with other groups such the military, clergy, salesman, etc.

My assumption is that you would find all the numbers comparable with each other.

 

[poncho]

Yes, but my world doesn't include this at all.

Wish mine did. I'd love to own a tank with an LRAD and a water cannon on it. Don't really think a helicopter or truck with ground penetrating radar that can see through walls like the DHS has would be appropriate for me to own but it might be nice to have the option to see what goes on in those interrogation rooms. Do you suppose it's a violation of the fourth amendment to look through people's walls without a warrant? The DHS obviously doesn't think so.

Which is exactly what I said.

I can't believe you didn't think I knew that. :smilewinkgrin:

I'll have to deal with this later. I don't have the manuals in front of me, so I can't say with 100% certainty, but I'm pretty sure this is hyperbole.

Only one way to find out.

Again, which is what I'm saying. I'm not sure if you mean your posts to come across this way or not, but I feel like my position is being attacked, even when I am agreeing with you.

Sorry I'm not all that great at switching gears from one thread to another.

I'd have to see a lot more hard evidence before I'd buy into this line. I know it's a favorite of yours, and I don't dismiss it outright. I just don't buy into it.

I can only provide the huge mass of evidence that supports my conclusion, which I have done here innumerable times now. It's up to you what you do with it.

BTW I look at things a little different than most people I guess. I try to put my tribal instincts aka the need to belong to some group or another aside when I'm looking into these things. I try to look at them as an individual with God given rights protected by a written constitution. Not as a democrat or republican or soldier, sailor, American or a member of any other group society on the whole compels me to be.

I subscribe to the right vs wrong paradigm. I've found that the right vs left paradigm is just a big distraction that gets in the way and makes it difficult if not impossible to see reality most of the time. I realize that ain't an easy thing to do after a lifetime of having red white and blue propaganda pounded into the ole noggin. But with practice it can be done.

As an aside, I'd be interested in seeing the numbers of how many police officers are corrupt versus how many there are, and compare these numbers with other groups such the military, clergy, salesman, etc.

My assumption is that you would find all the numbers comparable with each other.

As would I but how would we verify the numbers? I would image that the amount of corruption being covered up outnumbers that which we see reported by a wide margin. Frank Serpico almost lost his life to uncover the wide spread corruption in the NYC police department. Do you suppose the reasons for the wide spread corruption back then or the nature of man have changed much in the time that has passed?

 

[poncho]

Placed on Leave After Signing Pledge to Uphold Constitution

Chief of Police Harassed by Feds, Placed on Leave After Signing Pledge to Uphold Constitution.

Sheriff orders Shane Harger to disband entire police department due to “political affiliations.”

A police chief was detained and harassed by federal agents while traveling to a constitutional convention before returning home to be told he was being placed on administrative leave and ordered to disband his police department after signing a pledge to uphold the bill of rights.

Police Chief Shane Harger of the Jemez Springs, NM Police Department was flying out of Albuquerque Airport last week on his way to a Constitutional Sheriffs and Peace Officers Association (CSPOA) convention taking place in Las Vegas. CSPOA is an organization headed up by Sheriff Richard Mack under which law enforcement officers gather to re-affirm their commitment to uphold and defend the Constitution.

Before passing security, Harger was approached by a TSA agent who asked the police chief to show his credentials. Moments later, a man claiming to be a “federal agent” also asked to see Harger’s credentials before telling him he was a “person of interest.” The federal agent then demanded to know where Harger was traveling to and why.

When Harger told the federal agent he was attending the Constitutional Sheriffs and Peace Officers Association Convention in Las Vegas, he was detained for 35 minutes before finally being allowed to board the airplane.

On Tuesday January 28, a day after his return, Harger was placed on administrative leave and ordered by Sandoval County, NM, Sheriff Douglas C. Wood to disband his entire police department due to his “political affiliations”.

What were his political affiliations? While attending the convention, Harger, along with 38 other police officers, signed a declaration affirming their pledge to “obey and observe” the U.S. Constitution, in addition to refusing to carry out unconstitutional orders such as gun confiscation without constitutionally compliant warrants, violations of the 4th amendment without probable cause, detainment or incarceration of citizens without probable cause, or working with the military for domestic law enforcement.

In other words, Harger was targeted for federal harassment and subsequently suspended for re-affirming his belief in the very Constitution he took an oath to uphold and protect in order to become a police officer in the first place.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/chief-of-police-harassed-by-feds-fired-after-signing-pledge-to-uphold-constitution.html

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Chief of Police Harassed by Feds, Placed on Leave After Signing Pledge to Uphold Constitution.

Sheriff orders Shane Harger to disband entire police department due to “political affiliations.”

A police chief was detained and harassed by federal agents while traveling to a constitutional convention before returning home to be told he was being placed on administrative leave and ordered to disband his police department after signing a pledge to uphold the bill of rights.

Police Chief Shane Harger of the Jemez Springs, NM Police Department was flying out of Albuquerque Airport last week on his way to a Constitutional Sheriffs and Peace Officers Association (CSPOA) convention taking place in Las Vegas. CSPOA is an organization headed up by Sheriff Richard Mack under which law enforcement officers gather to re-affirm their commitment to uphold and defend the Constitution.

Before passing security, Harger was approached by a TSA agent who asked the police chief to show his credentials. Moments later, a man claiming to be a “federal agent” also asked to see Harger’s credentials before telling him he was a “person of interest.” The federal agent then demanded to know where Harger was traveling to and why.

When Harger told the federal agent he was attending the Constitutional Sheriffs and Peace Officers Association Convention in Las Vegas, he was detained for 35 minutes before finally being allowed to board the airplane.

On Tuesday January 28, a day after his return, Harger was placed on administrative leave and ordered by Sandoval County, NM, Sheriff Douglas C. Wood to disband his entire police department due to his “political affiliations”.

What were his political affiliations? While attending the convention, Harger, along with 38 other police officers, signed a declaration affirming their pledge to “obey and observe” the U.S. Constitution, in addition to refusing to carry out unconstitutional orders such as gun confiscation without constitutionally compliant warrants, violations of the 4th amendment without probable cause, detainment or incarceration of citizens without probable cause, or working with the military for domestic law enforcement.

In other words, Harger was targeted for federal harassment and subsequently suspended for re-affirming his belief in the very Constitution he took an oath to uphold and protect in order to become a police officer in the first place.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/chief-of-police-harassed-by-feds-fired-after-signing-pledge-to-uphold-constitution.html

I wouldn't trust Alex Jones as far as I can throw him, but I checked some other news sources and it looks like this story is legit.

Scary times we live in. Better buckle up.

As Buck Sexton says, "Testudo!

 

[poncho]

I wouldn't trust Alex Jones as far as I can throw him, but I checked some other news sources and it looks like this story is legit.

Scary times we live in. Better buckle up.

As Buck Sexton says, "Testudo!

Glad that's settled. :smilewinkgrin:

For Immediate Release – Resolution Of the Constitutional Sheriffs and Peace Officers Association January 24, 2014

Resolution

Of the Constitutional Sheriffs and Peace Officers Association

January 24, 2014

Please print this document and present it to your sheriff for signature and then mail the original:

CSPOA – Constitutional Sheriffs and Peace Officers Association | PO Box 567 | Higley | AZ | 85236

email: azdmack@gmail.com

Phone: 480-840-9091

http://www.cspoa.org/docs/CSPOA_Resolution_Jan_2014.pdf

Pursuant to the powers and duties bestowed upon us by our citizens, the undersigned do hereby resolve that any Federal officer, agent, or employee, regardless of supposed congressional authorization, is required to obey and observe limitations consisting of the enumerated powers as detailed within Article 1 Section 8 of the U S Constitution and the Bill Of Rights.

The people of these united States are, and have a right to be, free and independent, and these rights are derived from the “Law of Nature and nature’s God.” As such, they must be free from infringements on the right to keep and bear arms, unreasonable searches and seizures, capricious detainments and every other natural right whether enumerated or not, pursuant to the 9th amendment.

We further reaffirm that “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.” (10th amendment)

Furthermore, we maintain that no agency establishedby the U S Congress can develop its own policies or regulations which supersede the Bill of Rights or the Constitution, nor does the executive branch have the power to make law, overturn law or set aside law.

Therefore, in order to protect the American people, BE IT RESOLVED THAT,

The following abuses will not be allowed or tolerated:

http://www.usaprepares.com/government-corruption-2/for-immediate-release-resolution-of-the-constitutional-sheriffs-and-peace-officers-association-january-24-2014

 

[poncho]

EXCLUSIVE:Harassed Chief Speaks Out

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0ROCKV-J94

 

[poncho]

Stop Resisting Execution:

Cold-Blooded Arizona Cops Assassinate Suspect with His Hands in the Air.

For absolutely no reason other than “because they could”, cops in Pinal County, Arizona executed a suspect who was standing there, not near any of the officers, with his hands in the air, offering no threat whatsoever. Without trial, judge, or jury, they simply assassinated the man, as his family looked on in horror. Warning: There is some graphic violence in the video below.

This is your police force, America. Protecting and Serving you to death.

See Video Here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HrF_SYx1js

http://www.thedailysheeple.com/stop-resisting-execution-cold-blooded-arizona-cops-assassinate-suspect-with-his-hands-in-the-air_022014

 

[Don]

Hey, Poncho; here's how to report unjustified police actions:

http://www.azcentral.com/community/pinal/articles/20140128shooting-by-pinal-deputy-stirs-debate.html

Report as many of the facts as possible. Let the facts speak for themselves. Let people draw their own conclusions. Leave the opinionated histrionics out of it.

 

[poncho]

Hey, Poncho; here's how to report unjustified police actions:

http://www.azcentral.com/community/pinal/articles/20140128shooting-by-pinal-deputy-stirs-debate.html

Report as many of the facts as possible. Let the facts speak for themselves. Let people draw their own conclusions. Leave the opinionated histrionics out of it.

Hey Don,

If you decide to become a police officer, you are vowing to uphold the law. You are swearing an oath to “serve and protect”. More and more, we see these oaths violated. And the worst part is, the cops aren’t being held responsible when they sexually assault men and women, beat people up for fun, and commit crimes that would send the rest of us to prison while they are shielded from prosecution by merit of their uniforms. They shoot our pets, they beat the elderly, they frighten and molest our children, and they wield their badges to coerce people into acts that they might not normally perform.

Here are just a few headlines from the last year:

Excessive Force: Cops Beat Man With Down Syndrome

Man Subjected to 8 Anal Exams After Routine Traffic Stop

Shouldn’t the Police Have a “Do Not Fire Unless Fired Upon” Rule?

Copping a Thrill: Two of Philly’s Finest Strip a Woman, Masturbate, and then Lie About It

Traffic Stop Humiliation: Woman Ordered to “Shake out her Bra” – Cop Received ONE Day Suspension

Don’t Anal Probe Me, Bro! Another NM Man Subjected to Rectal Exam After Traffic Stop

Cops Strip Search Mom, “Forcibly” Pull Tampon Out of Her for Maybe Rolling Through Stop Sign

And what’s worse, if you don’t allow some stranger to stick his fingers up your hoo-haw, then that stranger legally gets to beat the daylights out of you. This happens to men and women both. By stating that our persons are our own, we risk getting beaten or killed. By putting you your hands to block a blow headed towards your face, you are “assaulting an officer”. By turtling and protecting your head and face when a dozen cops begin to kick the snot out of you, you are “resisting arrest.” Check out this video to see what “protecting and serving” means to cops all over America right now.

Your innocence of a crime is not relevant, by the way. Many people who have been assaulted, beaten, and molested are later found to be innocent of the original charges, but are then, as leverage, charged with resisting arrest or assaulting a police officer. When you get pulled over for something as simple as a speeding ticket, you must be aware that your entire life can change at the whim of the person who stopped you. And there really isn’t a whole lot you can do about it without the risk of death, a beating, and/or a long prison sentence.

How much more if this are YOU willing to put up with?

http://www.thedailysheeple.com/stop-resisting-execution-cold-blooded-arizona-cops-assassinate-suspect-with-his-hands-in-the-air_022014

And BTW Don, I don't see where you are reporting on any of this.

You got a better way to report on all this abuse of police power then start DOING IT!

 

[carpro]

Is it time to reconsider the militarization of American policing?

On Jan. 4 of last year, a local narcotics strike force conducted a raid on the Ogden, Utah, home of Matthew David Stewart at 8:40 p.m. The 12 officers were acting on a tip from Mr. Stewart's former girlfriend, who said that he was growing marijuana in his basement. Mr. Stewart awoke, naked, to the sound of a battering ram taking down his door. Thinking that he was being invaded by criminals, as he later claimed, he grabbed his 9-millimeter Beretta pistol.

The police say that they knocked and identified themselves, though Mr. Stewart and his neighbors said they heard no such announcement. Mr. Stewart fired 31 rounds, the police more than 250. Six of the officers were wounded, and Officer Jared Francom was killed. Mr. Stewart himself was shot twice before he was arrested. He was charged with several crimes, including the murder of Officer Francom.

The police found 16 small marijuana plants in Mr. Stewart's basement. There was no evidence that Mr. Stewart, a U.S. military veteran with no prior criminal record, was selling marijuana. Mr. Stewart's father said that his son suffered from post-traumatic stress disorder and may have smoked the marijuana to self-medicate.

Early this year, the Ogden city council heard complaints from dozens of citizens about the way drug warrants are served in the city. As for Mr. Stewart, his trial was scheduled for next April, and prosecutors were seeking the death penalty. But after losing a hearing last May on the legality of the search warrant, Mr. Stewart hanged himself in his jail cell.

The police tactics at issue in the Stewart case are no anomaly. Since the 1960s, in response to a range of perceived threats, law-enforcement agencies across the U.S., at every level of government, have been blurring the line between police officer and soldier. Driven by martial rhetoric and the availability of military-style equipment—from bayonets and M-16 rifles to armored personnel carriers—American police forces have often adopted a mind-set previously reserved for the battlefield. The war on drugs and, more recently, post-9/11 antiterrorism efforts have created a new figure on the U.S. scene: the warrior cop—armed to the teeth, ready to deal harshly with targeted wrongdoers, and a growing threat to familiar American liberties.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424127887323848804578608040780519904

If placed under similar corcumstances as Mr. Stewart, I can see myself reacting much the same. Awaking from a sound sleep to find armed strangers in my home, I believe, if possible, I would shoot first and ask questions later.

That being said, it don't think it was the weapons carried by the police that caused the problem.

What they had was an uncorroborated story of marijuana growing in someone's basement. Now, that might be enough for a search warrant, but not enough for a home invasion, legal or not.

They could have knocked and served the warrant.

The fault lies, not with the weapons, but with the process. Is an uncorroborated allegation for a low level drug growing in a basement cause for a no knock warrant and full armed assault.

I don't think so.

 

[Don]

And BTW Don, I don't see where you are reporting on any of this.

You got a better way to report on all this abuse of police power then start DOING IT!

Don't lecture me, Poncho. You have no idea what I'm doing.

 

[poncho]

Don't lecture me, Poncho. You have no idea what I'm doing.

Don't lecture me Poncho I'm suppose to be lecturing you! I know what you're doing here Don letting me take all the heat while you sit back and tell me how to do what you ain't got the guts to do.

You're to busy being part of the problem like all the rest of the fakes and phonies around here.

Just keep following the herd Don if that's what you want to do. The real patriots will do all the heavy lifting for you until the day comes it'll be easy for you to defend your country.

Sunshine patriots. Go back to sleep we'll wake you up when it's over.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Poncho, the good news is that the good people of Texas just struck the first blow in standing up to these Stormtroopers:

Grand jury won't indict man who shot Texas deputy

A local grand jury declined Wednesday to indict Henry Goedrich Magee for the Dec. 19 death of Burleson County Sgt. Adam Sowders, who was part of a group of investigators executing a search warrant for Magee’s rural home.

Sowders and other officers entered the home about 90 miles northwest of Houston without knocking just before 6 a.m. Authorities were looking for guns and marijuana....

http://lubbockonline.com/filed-onli...indict-man-who-shot-texas-deputy#.UvgTIMKYbIU

 

[Don]

Don't lecture me Poncho I'm suppose to be lecturing you! I know what you're doing here Don letting me take all the heat while you sit back and tell me how to do what you ain't got the guts to do.

You're to busy being part of the problem like all the rest of the fakes and phonies around here.

Just keep following the herd Don if that's what you want to do. The real patriots will do all the heavy lifting for you until the day comes it'll be easy for you to defend your country.

Sunshine patriots. Go back to sleep we'll wake you up when it's over.

You're being obtuse. Alienating people does NOT further your cause; merely gives some more justification for their perceptions.

As I said, you have no idea what I'm doing. Or you're not paying attention. It's quite possible that you're letting your own preconceived notions blind you to what's going on around you.

 

[poncho]

You're being obtuse. Alienating people does NOT further your cause; merely gives some more justification for their perceptions.

As I said, you have no idea what I'm doing. Or you're not paying attention. It's quite possible that you're letting your own preconceived notions blind you to what's going on around you.

No doubt Don. I also doubt very much I'm the only one guilty of that here.

I try to base my notions on individual freedom and holding the government accountable for it's trespasses against our freedoms.

That pretty much puts me at odds with the neoconservative perceived "authoritarian majority" on BB. It ain't easy trying to make sense of what's going on around me when there's so many authoritarians trying to shout any information that goes against their preconceived notions down with personal attacks insults and ridiculous oversized images.