Robbing God of His Glory
1689Dave’s Argument: If "General Redemption" means Christ died for each and every person, he did not save anyone, he only made it possible for people to save themselves. This robs God of his glory in salvation and allocates to people a value he thought worth dying for.
I’m using Dave’s argument because the argument seems to be widespread.
Argument restated: This concept of “Robbing God of His Glory” seems to be the “go to” or backup argument used to oppose the use of our Supernatural Free Will. It probably would come under the 5th Sola of Protestantism: Soli Deo Gloria. The idea seems to be that if “you” are doing something (cooperating) in the process to obtain your salvation then God is not doing it all. You then are saving yourself (working your way to heaven by yourself) and robbing God of His Glory. I think they would agree that this is a form of “boasting” (Eph 2:9) because Paul also refers to “Works”. Also, they would say it means God “failed” in saving those who were lost and maybe even failed in saving all.
Before I answer this argument
In Catholic Theology, you have to understand a couple of things first. I know you will disagree with all of this but you have to look past that and understand it the way we do in order to understand why we are not robbing God of His Glory. If you don’t, your arguments will be less convincing.
Here are the things:
Initial Justification = this is equal to your one-time Justification
We call it our “initial justification” and believe this happens at Baptism with the presence of Faith (Mark 16:16). Baptism “does it all” which means “God does it all”. That’s why we Baptize infants. There is nothing we can do to “save ourselves” in this “initial Justification”. We go from being in Original Sin to being in God’s Grace by God ALONE. God does it all.
(2) Justification as an ongoing process - after the “Initial Justification” we say you can be further justified. We say this because we see Sanctification and Justification as the same thing. Granted they are 2 different words but, in Greek, they are basically the same and very fluid in scripture. The DRV uses the word “Justice” in places where the KJV uses “Righteousness” many times. We see the “removal of sin” (Justification) and the “growing in grace” (Sanctification) basically as the flip side of the same thing - the less sin, the more grace; the more sin, the less grace. This describes our growth or lack of growth in holiness or sanctity (Rom 8:30 only mentions Justification and NOT Sanctification). We believe Judgement is after death (Heb 9:27) so we must continue confessing sin. We can lose our Initial Justification through mortal sin and be restored again through the Sacrament of Confession. Confessing and repenting of sin is part of Perseverance because you need grace to be saved and are restored in grace through Confession. This Confessing of sin keeps us from boasting that we are saving ourselves. Confessing sin does just the opposite - it humbles us (2 Chron 7:14). The Sacrament of Confession (John 20:21-23) takes away sin after Baptism. We are not taking away our own sin, therefore, God does it all in Confession. Finally, anything that we “Cooperate” in using our supernatural free Will (Phil 2:12-13), that moves us closer to Christ, AFTER we are in Christ (after our initial justification), is a Good Work. A reward for a Good Work is based on God’s Promises (Matt 5:1-12, Matt 25:24, Matt 19:29, Matt 25:21, Luke 6:38, Rom 2:6, 1 Cor 3:8, Col 3:24, Heb 10:35, Heb 11:6, 2 Tim 4:8, Heb 6:10). Good Works are, at the same time, BOTH gifts of God and meritorious acts of man (Council of Orange, Denz 191 [DS 388] Can. 18, also see Ludwig Ott) because eternal life is BOTH a gift and reward (Rom 2:6-7). Good Works are how we grow in sanctity (Grace - 2 Pet 3:18, John 3:30) so we can have that Confident Assurance in our salvation (1 John 5:13-14, Heb 3:6, 2 Pet 1:10) and also have greater rewards in heaven (Rom 2:6, Matt 10:42).
1689Dave’s Argument: If "General Redemption" means Christ died for each and every person, he did not save anyone, he only made it possible for people to save themselves. This robs God of his glory in salvation and allocates to people a value he thought worth dying for.
I’m using Dave’s argument because the argument seems to be widespread.
Argument restated: This concept of “Robbing God of His Glory” seems to be the “go to” or backup argument used to oppose the use of our Supernatural Free Will. It probably would come under the 5th Sola of Protestantism: Soli Deo Gloria. The idea seems to be that if “you” are doing something (cooperating) in the process to obtain your salvation then God is not doing it all. You then are saving yourself (working your way to heaven by yourself) and robbing God of His Glory. I think they would agree that this is a form of “boasting” (Eph 2:9) because Paul also refers to “Works”. Also, they would say it means God “failed” in saving those who were lost and maybe even failed in saving all.
Before I answer this argument
In Catholic Theology, you have to understand a couple of things first. I know you will disagree with all of this but you have to look past that and understand it the way we do in order to understand why we are not robbing God of His Glory. If you don’t, your arguments will be less convincing.
Here are the things:
Initial Justification = this is equal to your one-time Justification
We call it our “initial justification” and believe this happens at Baptism with the presence of Faith (Mark 16:16). Baptism “does it all” which means “God does it all”. That’s why we Baptize infants. There is nothing we can do to “save ourselves” in this “initial Justification”. We go from being in Original Sin to being in God’s Grace by God ALONE. God does it all.
(2) Justification as an ongoing process - after the “Initial Justification” we say you can be further justified. We say this because we see Sanctification and Justification as the same thing. Granted they are 2 different words but, in Greek, they are basically the same and very fluid in scripture. The DRV uses the word “Justice” in places where the KJV uses “Righteousness” many times. We see the “removal of sin” (Justification) and the “growing in grace” (Sanctification) basically as the flip side of the same thing - the less sin, the more grace; the more sin, the less grace. This describes our growth or lack of growth in holiness or sanctity (Rom 8:30 only mentions Justification and NOT Sanctification). We believe Judgement is after death (Heb 9:27) so we must continue confessing sin. We can lose our Initial Justification through mortal sin and be restored again through the Sacrament of Confession. Confessing and repenting of sin is part of Perseverance because you need grace to be saved and are restored in grace through Confession. This Confessing of sin keeps us from boasting that we are saving ourselves. Confessing sin does just the opposite - it humbles us (2 Chron 7:14). The Sacrament of Confession (John 20:21-23) takes away sin after Baptism. We are not taking away our own sin, therefore, God does it all in Confession. Finally, anything that we “Cooperate” in using our supernatural free Will (Phil 2:12-13), that moves us closer to Christ, AFTER we are in Christ (after our initial justification), is a Good Work. A reward for a Good Work is based on God’s Promises (Matt 5:1-12, Matt 25:24, Matt 19:29, Matt 25:21, Luke 6:38, Rom 2:6, 1 Cor 3:8, Col 3:24, Heb 10:35, Heb 11:6, 2 Tim 4:8, Heb 6:10). Good Works are, at the same time, BOTH gifts of God and meritorious acts of man (Council of Orange, Denz 191 [DS 388] Can. 18, also see Ludwig Ott) because eternal life is BOTH a gift and reward (Rom 2:6-7). Good Works are how we grow in sanctity (Grace - 2 Pet 3:18, John 3:30) so we can have that Confident Assurance in our salvation (1 John 5:13-14, Heb 3:6, 2 Pet 1:10) and also have greater rewards in heaven (Rom 2:6, Matt 10:42).
