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Featured Romans 8:6.....What is it getting at.

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Iconoclast, Apr 6, 2022.

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  1. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    well, he did hold with and teach another gospel!
     
    #161 JesusFan, Apr 12, 2022
  2. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    Context here is vital, as Calvin also taught Preincarnate Christ was Michael, but both of them held was he was God in the OT!

    and NT Wright still plainly NT wrong where iot matters most. how a lost sinner gets justified before Holy God!
     
    #162 JesusFan, Apr 12, 2022
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  3. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    Does not answer the question
     
    #163 SavedByGrace, Apr 12, 2022
  4. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    Then Calvin taught that Jesus Christ is not YHWH as Michael was created
     
    #164 SavedByGrace, Apr 12, 2022
  5. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    Would say that the really solid and good biblical authors of modern times were a majority of the time really either Reformed or Calvinists!
     
    #165 JesusFan, Apr 12, 2022
  6. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    #166 JesusFan, Apr 12, 2022
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  7. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    Can one be saved holding to another Gospel?
     
    #167 JesusFan, Apr 12, 2022
  8. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Not really. He was a Calvinist. But he believed God used man (the preacher), truth (the gospel message), and the sinner (who would repent and believe). In using man he believed in emotional appeals.
     
    #168 JonC, Apr 12, 2022
  9. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Yes, they believed Michael the Archangel is Christ - God. They also believed in infant baptism.
     
    #169 JonC, Apr 12, 2022
  10. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    #170 SavedByGrace, Apr 12, 2022
  11. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    It was a fairly common belief (like the Angel of God being Christ). But they were wrong about a lot.
     
    #171 JonC, Apr 12, 2022
  12. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    But the Angel or Messenger of God or the Lord, is Jesus Christ. No doubt about that
     
    #172 SavedByGrace, Apr 12, 2022
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  13. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    he held to full free will heresy, that has plagued the Church since his time!
     
    #173 JesusFan, Apr 12, 2022
  14. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    Calvin ONLY held that the Prince of His people in Daniel 12 mentioned was preincarnate Christ!
     
    #174 JesusFan, Apr 12, 2022
  15. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    They held that JUST the appearance of Him in Daniel 12 was actually Christ!
     
    #175 JesusFan, Apr 12, 2022
  16. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    The Angel of the Lord was preincarnate Christ
     
    #176 JesusFan, Apr 12, 2022
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  17. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    Very good. In fact, all sorts of very respectable theologians have seen Michael as being the Lord Jesus. I have a really excellent book called Rock of our Salvation by a 19th Century Presbyterian called W.S. Plumer (reprinted by Sprinkle Books) who does just that. I disagree, but I'm not about to discard the rest of the book.
    I'm inclined to agree with Calvin that it is unwise to get too preoccupied with the various "gradations of honour" among angels.

    One other point: if to be 'Reformed' means nothing more today than not to be Dispensational, then the word has lost its meaning. In fact, to be Reformed means to accept one or more of the Reformed Confessions as correct*, and especially to uphold Article 1:1 of the1689 Confession: The Holy Scripture is the only sufficient, certain and infallible rule of all saving knowledge, Faith and Obedience. There is no way in the world that Karl Barth, Finney or N.T. Wright are Reformed.

    *A certain latitude is generally allowed in adherence to one or two articles, particularly that which pronounces the pope to be the Antichrist.
     
    #177 Martin Marprelate, Apr 12, 2022
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  18. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Yes, to suggest these men were reformed shows a lack of knowledge as to what being reformed is.
     
    #178 Iconoclast, Apr 12, 2022
  19. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    To suggest otherwise is not to understand what Reformed is.

    "After the war, Barth engaged in controversies regarding baptism (though a Reformed theologian, he rejected infant baptism), hermeneutics, and the demythologizing program of Rudolf Bultmann (which denied the historical nature of Scripture, instead believing it a myth whose meaning could heal spiritual anxiety)."


    Some people idolize Karl Barth as entirely in line with the heritage of John Calvin. Others demonize him as clearly emerging from one of the lower rims of Dante’s Inferno. In my judgment the truth of the matter is far more complex. There are many parts of Karl Barth’s writings that are luminescent. They are wonderfully evocative when he speaks of the glory and the greatness and the majesty of God and when he speaks of the importance of Christ. On so many, many fronts Karl Barth really was the premier theologian of the twentieth century in terms of volume of writings, profundity of analysis and so on. It would be nice if every movement that came along was right from the throne room of God or right from the pit so you could bless it or damn it and get on with life, but that is just not the way life is.

    And so it is sad if knowledgeable pastors don’t make use of Barth, but it is even more sad if they make a wrong use of Barth.

    (D.A. Carson, The Gospel Coalition)

    We even see R.C. Sproul relying on Barth in How Should I Live in This World.

    It is no accident Barth is considered "the gold standard of Reformed theology".
     
    #179 JonC, Apr 12, 2022
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2022
  20. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    I am at The pilot truckstop off of exit 11 on I -20 if you have any spare time..will be here for a bit.
     
    #180 Iconoclast, Apr 12, 2022
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