Romans 8:8

[JD731]

You said I might not respond honestly, and that was condescending.

1) Ephesians 2:5 does teach contextually that a person is in union with Christ when they undergo the washing of regeneration.

2) To be "in" Christ is to be with Christ and in union with Christ. No need for distinctions without a difference.

I will try this one more time, Van. The prepositions in the revelation of the mysteries of God makes a great difference and at once teaches us that one must have the true words of God if he is to have the light on these NT doctrines under which we live. God reserves the right to choose which words he will use in making these mysteries known to the fertile and the regenerated mind who loves them. You or I do not get to choose the words and to do so is to deny them.

Having said that, the words "with" and "in" are two different words and in the scriptures, it matters. One can be with someone and not be in them but they cannot be in someone and not be with them. All during the earthly ministry of Jesus Christ the disciple were with Jesus Christ but they were not in him. After the resurrection of Christ, he was in them although he had physically ascended to heaven and therefore were with him because he was also in them, that is he was in their bodies in the person of the Spirit, who is God and one with Jesus Christ and God the Father. So, when the scriptures says these two things, know that he is speaking of the same person in a different form and function.

Ephesians 3:17
That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

In 2 Cor 6 God the Father dwells in us and so there is one person who dwells in us, the eternal God. We are always with him because we are in him and he is in us, if we are redeemed by the blood of his cross. Here it is spelled out in Ephesians.

Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

To be "in Christ" is to be placed into the body of Christ which he is forming in this age by baptizing those who receive his Spirit in them, they having heard the gospel of Jesus Christ (1 Cor 15:1-4) and repented of their sins toward God and having trusted in the shed blood of Jesus Christ to take them away, the Jews having been first in the body by ten years, and the gentiles believers having been added later. That is how the history of the beginning of the church is given to us in the Acts and I am sure glad I have Ephesians and the rest of Paul's epistles to explain me this purpose of God in this age.

"In Christ" is found 78 times in the NT (KJV) in 77 verses. It is a NT doctrine and it is not even understood by many who post on these types of forums, and they cannot be taught.






3) The false argument that if the main point of a passage is "A" then other points, such as "B" or "C" are not being also taught is without merit.

4) The false charge that the scriptures used to support the position are just "proof texting" meaning taken out of context, is without merit.

5)

1 Corinthians12:13
For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one [spiritual] body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.

Romans 6:3
Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?​

Here again we see that we are "together with Christ" because we have been immersed in His Spirit.

 

[Van]

SNIP "... the words "with" and "in" are two different words and in the scriptures, it matters.

The Greek preposition "en" is translated both as "in" and as "with."

To be "in Christ" is to be placed into the body of Christ which SNIP

"In Christ" is found 78 times in the NT (KJV) in 77 verses. It is a NT doctrine and it is not even understood by many who post on these types of forums, and they cannot be taught.

Yes to be "in" Christ is to be placed (immersed) in or more accurately within Christ. Of those about 78 times, sometimes the meaning is someone has placed their faith upon Christ's gospel, and at other times, the idea is someone is located spiritually, not in Adam, but in Christ.

3) The false argument that if the main point of a passage is "A" then other points, such as "B" or "C" are not being also taught is without merit.

4) The false charge that the scriptures used to support the position are just "proof texting" meaning taken out of context, is without merit.

5)

1 Corinthians12:13
For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one [spiritual] body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.

Romans 6:3
Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?​

Here again we see that we are "together with Christ" because we have been immersed in His Spirit.

 

[JD731]

The Greek preposition "en" is translated both as "in" and as "with."


Yes to be "in" Christ is to be placed (immersed) in or more accurately within Christ. Of those about 78 times, sometimes the meaning is someone has placed their faith upon Christ's gospel, and at other times, the idea is someone is located spiritually, not in Adam, but in Christ.

Well what did I say about translators choosing their own words. Dead sure you have proven that at least in some translations they are the words of the translators and not the words of God. It makes me sick to know that people can argue for exactness on the one hand while tolerating all kinds of liberty with the words of the scriptures on the other. It seems like a double standard to me. One thing I am sure of after some 50 years of being a student of the word of God and that is that the words must be precise because they carry the very thoughts of God and he does not think like we do, according to his own testimony in Isa 55.

English speaking people should be able to discuss the scriptures in words every English speaking person understands. I personally think that is what God wants for his church. It was he that said for us all to speak the same things. This Greek speaking philosophy is a damnable heresay that will eventually cause a lot of burning. Isn't that where we get some bibles sayin with while others say in?

Well, that is a little rant that has little to do with the topic at hand but I enjoyed saying it.

 

[Van]

Well what did I say about translators choosing their own words. Dead sure you have proven that at least in some translations they are the words of the translators and not the words of God. It makes me sick to know that people can argue for exactness on the one hand while tolerating all kinds of liberty with the words of the scriptures on the other. It seems like a double standard to me. One thing I am sure of after some 50 years of being a student of the word of God and that is that the words must be precise because they carry the very thoughts of God and he does not think like we do, according to his own testimony in Isa 55.

English speaking people should be able to discuss the scriptures in words every English speaking person understands. I personally think that is what God wants for his church. It was he that said for us all to speak the same things. This Greek speaking philosophy is a damnable heresay that will eventually cause a lot of burning. Isn't that where we get some bibles sayin with while others say in?

Well, that is a little rant that has little to do with the topic at hand but I enjoyed saying it.

Why not address the topic rather than post boiler plate?

At least 10 English translations, representing many translators, presented a different message. To claim human understanding of God's word is not flawed, or that we do not hold some wrong understandings, is to ignore rationality.

Romans 8:8 says that if we have our minds set on fleshly desires or worldly desires we cannot please God. No one I know of objects to that view.

CEB
People who are self-centered aren’t able to please God.
CJB
Thus, those who identify with their old nature cannot please God.
CEV
If we follow our desires, we cannot please God.​

 

[Van]

Romans 8:27 (NASB)
and He who searches the hearts knows what the mind G5427 of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the saints according to God.

In this verse we see the same Greek word (G5427) translated differently. But the idea is what thoughts and attitudes do we have in our minds. The He who searches, refers (in my opinion) to Christ sitting at the right hand of the Father, and the "Spirit" refers to our indwelt Paraclete.

Thus Paul uses the word to indicate what we are thinking about rather than whether we are indwelt or not. Thus "with the flesh" or "with the Spirit" better translates the intended message in my opinion.

 

[Van]

And those with their minds set on fleshly or worldly desires cannot please God.