Do you or do you not understand
Romans 9:11 election is between their works or God's calling?
I do understand that I do not understand what someone
could possibly mean by saying,
"election is between their works or God's calling",
or where anything like that could possibly have come from.
Got me. Not that that is unusual for us.
As far as Romans 9:11, I know it sits within a chapter context,
as well as a wonderfully harmonious Book, Testament and Bible context.
I give it within a comprehensive introduction outline, below, that is RICH.
...
Then, we have the Glorious Bible revelations from Romans 9:
"Paul had been talking just prior to Romans 9:11,
"by distinguishing between Israel and Israel, or the elect of God among them,
and those that were not;
"wherefore though the latter were rejected according to the purpose of God, the promise and preaching of the word had their effect in the former,
Romans 9:6, and that there was such a distinction, he proves from the two sons of Abraham,
Isaac and Ishmael, who were both Abraham's seed;
"yet one was a child of promise, and the other a child of the flesh, and were
emblematical of the children of the promise, and the children of the flesh among that people;
Romans 9:7,
"
and further confirms this by the instance of Jacob and Esau,
who were born of the same parents, and were twins;
"and yet one was in the favour of God, and the other not;
"and that this was owing not to works,
but to the sovereign will of God in election, he proves by observing that this was before good or evil were done by either of them,
Romans 9:11,
"and that this was notified to Rebekah before,
Romans 9:12, as appears from a passage in
Genesis 25:23, and by another passage in
Malachi 1:2, which is cited,
Romans 9:13,
then an objection is started, Romans 9:14,
"that if God loves one, and hates another, both being in equal circumstances, as Jacob and Esau were, he must be guilty of unrighteousness;
"which he answers and removes, first by a
detestation of such a charge against God, and
then by producing testimonies out of the books of Moses, proving both election and reprobation*, as being not of the works of men, but of the will of God; the former of these he proves, Romans 9:15, from Exodus 33:19,
"
by which it appears, that the choice of men to salvation is not according to the will of man, but according to the grace and love of God, Romans 9:16,
"the latter he proves by the case of Pharaoh, Romans 9:17, and the Scripture relating to that, Exodus 9:16, and from both testimonies concludes, Romans 9:18, that God's having mercy on one, and hardening* another, are according to his sovereign will and pleasure;
"then another objection rises, up, if so, God has no reason to find fault with men that are hardened* in sin, since they are according to his will, and in sinning do but fulfil it, and which no man resists;
"and this objection is formed in a very pert and sneering manner, and insinuates that God is cruel and acts unreasonably,
Romans 9:19, to which he answers, by putting the objector in mind that he was a man, a mere creature that started it, and that it was God against whom it was made;
"and by observing the folly and madness of replying against God, and the absurdity of such a procedure, taken from the consideration of the one being a creature, and the other the Creator,
Romans 9:20, and by instancing in the case of the potter, who has power over his clay, to form it in what shape, and for what use he pleases,
Romans 9:21,
"and accommodates this, both to the affair of election and reprobation*, and to the business of the latter first, Romans 9:22, where he observes the end of God in it to show forth his power and wrath, and describes the subjects of it, which clears him from injustice, and points at the patience of God towards them, which frees him from the charge of cruelty,
Romans 9:22,
"and then proceeds to apply the metaphor before used, to the objects of election styled vessels of mercy, and the end of the Lord to manifest the riches of his glory in them, and the method he takes to bring them to eternal happiness, by preparing them for it by grace, Romans 9:23, which is done in the effectual calling, the objects of which are both Jews and Gentiles,
Romans 9:24.
"That it is the will of God that the Gentiles should be called, he proves,
Romans 9:25, from some passages in Hosea,
Hosea 2:23, and that
God had chosen, and so would call some among the Jews, he clearly makes appear,
Romans 9:27,
"from some prophecies of Isaiah,
Isaiah 10:22, and
then he concludes the chapter by observing the free and distinguishing grace of God, in the calling of the Gentiles, and the justification of them by the righteousness of Christ..."
From:
Romans 9 Gill's Exposition
* (& Don't let this note distract you, but I thought I might mention
something about it: "
Reprobation" here refers to a "
Negative Determination"
that God chooses to make, when God has Degreed to leave some in sin
where they were, to start with.
That is, God does "
make a Decree", or decision, but it does not have
an immediate, "I INTEND to kill you, NOW", or
"Positive Determination",
like, "I am the one Who is Appointing you to Hell".
But, as a "
Negative Determination", God expresses His intention as if to say,
"I see where you are, as a natural born sinner,
and I am making the Executive Decision to leave you where
you want to be."
And this is also what is meant by, "
whom He will, He hardeneth"
9:18,
= when He sees the lost sinner is in a state of Spiritual darkness and
by "
He hardeneth" it means that God gives them up to
CONTINUE in MORE DARKNESS,
if that kind of thing sound right to be possible, which apparently it is.)
