Romans 9 doesn't prove Calvinism; it proves the oppositie

[Reformed1689]

But does not Calvinism insist their salvation election was from the foundation of the earth. It should not matter them. Because as Calvinism teaches, It is not based on us believing, its based on God regenerating us and giving us the ability to believe.

No. Elect to salvation before the foundation of the world, but no, not saved from the foundation of the world.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Choosing the older to serve the younger referred to the twins, not two peoples.

Nope.

For you to pretend not see that is revolting.

FOr you to totally ignore the OT quotes and the actual OT testimony of Jacob and Esau is sad.

Did you agree the election was conditional? Nope.

Did I say election was unconditional? NOPE

Stop pretending to find fault in others and look at your own back yard.

I am not the one who falsely accused you my friend.

Which of the five points of the TULIP do you disavow?

I am not here to discuss the 5 points of calvin or the 5 antipoints of arminian. I am here to discuss the word of God.

If you read my posts. and think I am a clavinist. You have more problems than I can help you with.

Did Christ die as a ransom for all, or just the elect?

Christ died for ALL.

Do lost sinners have the innate ability to seek God and trust fully in Christ?

Only with the help of God. But as romans 1 says, even the heathen knows God so they have no excuse

Does God choose individual for salvation because He credited their faith as righteousness.

dude, This is getting out of Hand

If you refuse to look at what I say. Then I can not go on with you.

whoever calls on the name of the lord will be saved!!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Did I say the election of the twins was about salvation? Nope.
I said it was a conditional election, and you, despite all the huffing and puffing, have not directly answered that question.

lol. IT WAS NOT ABOUT ELECTION OF TWINS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So everything else you said here is meaningless

 

[Eternally Grateful]

It absolutely matters.

Well yeah. If you want to support your position.

Again, he did not say elect. He said none. None means none.

I suggest we try not to add words to the word Of God.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

No. Elect to salvation before the foundation of the world, but no, not saved from the foundation of the world.

But they can not save themselves or chose to recieve the gift of Life, so does it really matter?

 

[Reformed1689]

But they can not save themselves or chose to recieve the gift of Life, so does it really matter?

Of course it matters.

 

[Reformed1689]

Well yeah. If you want to support your position.

Again, he did not say elect. He said none. None means none.

I suggest we try not to add words to the word Of God.

Of course none means none, but who are the none referring to? That's a big issue.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Of course none means none, but who are the none referring to? That's a big issue.

it means done. He means literally, he is willing that none should perish.

It does not mean that no one will perish. It just means that is his thought..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Of course it matters.

No not really.

If fatalism is true. Salvation is already set in stone.

 

[Reformed1689]

No not really.

If fatalism is true. Salvation is already set in stone.

Good thing we aren't talking about fatalism.

 

[Reformed1689]

it means done. He means literally, he is willing that none should perish.

It does not mean that no one will perish. It just means that is his thought..

WHO is the none referring to? If he does not WILL for any person to perish, nobody would perish.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

WHO is the none referring to? If he does not WILL for any person to perish, nobody would perish.

This is only true if double predestination is factual. Its not.

Salvation is given only to those who hear the word and have faith in that word. To those who believe. To those who have seen and believe, which is the will of God.

God has the right, in proving he is a loving God. to set aside his sovereignty to only give his precious gift based on his precious sons death to those who want it. He also has the right to allow those who do not want it to continue against his will to die in unbelief. and against his will. send them to Hell prepared for Satan and his angels.

We are justified only by faith. We are made alive, or regenerated only because of justification.

You can't twist these terms and meanings and make them what they are not..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

WHO is the none referring to? If he does not WILL for any person to perish, nobody would perish.

Matthew 23:37
“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!

this does not help your line of thinking. Looking at it your way. Jesus will would have been done wither Jerusalem was willing or not.

 

[Reformed1689]

Matthew 23:37
“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!

this does not help your line of thinking. Looking at it your way. Jesus will would have been done wither Jerusalem was willing or not.

Another out of context verse, is that seriously all you know how to do?

 

[atpollard]

Neither Romans 9, nor the rest of scripture supports the false doctrine of Calvinism.

Even if that was true, I wanted to see how Romans 5 proves either Pelagianism or Universalism (The TITLE says the "OPPOSITE" of Calvinism ... so that would be "God chooses EVERYONE or God chooses NOBODY - they all save themselves).

 

[Reformed1689]

This is only true if double predestination is factual. Its not.

Salvation is given only to those who hear the word and have faith in that word. To those who believe. To those who have seen and believe, which is the will of God.

God has the right, in proving he is a loving God. to set aside his sovereignty to only give his precious gift based on his precious sons death to those who want it. He also has the right to allow those who do not want it to continue against his will to die in unbelief. and against his will. send them to Hell prepared for Satan and his angels.

We are justified only by faith. We are made alive, or regenerated only because of justification.

You can't twist these terms and meanings and make them what they are not..

I mean look, I get it, you don't like what the text actually states. You are a humanist, that's fine, but it's wrong.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Another out of context verse, is that seriously all you know how to do?

So if it does not agree with your theology it is out of Context?

And you expect me to come to your point of view when you do things like this?

 

[Alan Gross]

Romans 9 KJV[/QUOTE]

that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I mean look, I get it, you don't like what the text actually states. You are a humanist, that's fine, but it's wrong.

So I do not agree with you and I am all of a sudden a humanist.

lol. This takes us full circle to my first post to you. You can't refute what I say, so you mock and make comments which have no bearing on our conversation.

I love what the word says. Just because I do not agree with you means I am wrong.. You should practice what you preach my friend..

Your a fatalist. And thats wrong. There. Two can play that game. but where did it get us?

SMH

 

[Reformed1689]

So if it does not agree with your theology it is out of Context?

And you expect me to come to your point of view when you do things like this?

No it is out of context because it is out of context.