Rome teaches "Works Salvation"

[trying2understand]

Originally posted by Bro. Curtis:
OK. I look at salvation as being complete, and sanctification as the life long process.

So if you are saved but not sanctified, how do you enter Heaven since no unclean thing may enter?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Originally posted by Bro. Curtis:
So you aren't saved ?

Originally posted by Yelsew:
Nope, just marked for salvation, sanctified in the promise of the salvation to come to those who endure to the end! But having the mark of Salvation, which is FAITH, is sufficient for living this natural life to the fullest and with the promised abundance. For in that day, the sheep (believers) shall be separated from the goats (unbelievers) and shall be with Jesus eternally henceforth.

Yelsew,

You might not be saved,but those of us who have believed the gospel are in fact already saved:

"For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us who are saved it is the power of God"(1Cor.1:18).

Who are saved !

In His grace,--Jerry

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Originally posted by GraceSaves:

Curtis,

If sanctification (purification) is a life-long process, you must admit that it can be for some reason CEASED by the individual person. And if that is the cased, what happens to the SAVED man who has not been PERFECTLY SANCTIFIED? After all, if it is a life-long process, does not a man who lives longer have a better chance at full sanctification? And if not, the man who dies younger gets sanctified faster, all at once before he dies? Why doesn't the Holy Spirit completely sanctify us at the moment of salvation? Why does he delay in finishing the job? And if I am not yet perfectly sanctified (as it is a life-long process), and I die THIS VERY MOMENT, I have died without being perfectly sanctified?

These are honest questions. God bless,

Grant

Sanctification would be complete, only at death. Since sanctified means "can't sin", then only at death could we acheive this. Sanctification, to me, means that we overcome, with the help of the Lord, the willingness to sin.

My dad has a great story about sanctifcation. When he was saved, he was a pretty heavy smoker. He knew that smoking was a sin, but somehow didn't have the strength to stop. He would rip up his cigarettes, flush them down the toilet, in tears, only to buy another pack as soon as he could. It took him a year and a half to quit, even after being saved. The Lord gave him victory enough to put smoking down for good.

Sanctification is a powerful tool in one's Christian witness. Some folks are more easily persuaded, by the Holy Spirit, than others. But sanctification is the work of the Holy spirit, and the result is that we live a life, down here, that more closely resembles the life of Christ.

 

[trying2understand]

Originally posted by Bro. Curtis:
Sanctification would be complete, only at death. Since sanctified means "can't sin", then only at death could we acheive this.

Then by your definition even dead pagans are "sanctified".

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Originally posted by trying2understand:
So if you are saved but not sanctified, how do you enter Heaven since no unclean thing may enter?

trying2understand,

Just as the believer is identified with the death of the Lord Jesus Christ,he is also identified with His life.That is the meaning of Paul's words that Christians are "sanctified in Christ Jesus"(1Cor.2).

To "sanctify" means "to separate from things profane and dedicate to God"("Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon").

We are "separated" in Christ Jesus when we are baptized by the Holy Spirit into the Body of Christ (1Cor.12:13,27).

We become so identified with the life of the Lord Jesus Christ that Paul says:

"Even when we were dead in sins, hath made us alive us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus"(Eph.2:5,6).

Our identification with the "life" of Jesus Christ is so complete that Paul says that "we are members of His body,and of His flesh,and of His bones"(Eph.5:30).

His life is our life:

"For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory"(Col.3:3,4).

That is why Paul can tell all true believers the following:

"Who (the Father) hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son"(Col.1:13).

In His grace,--Jerry

 

[Bro. Curtis]

I said...

Sanctification, to me, means that we overcome, with the help of the Lord, the willingness to sin.

But sanctification is the work of the Holy spirit, and the result is that we live a life, down here, that more closely resembles the life of Christ.

Does the Holy Spirit reside in Pagans ?

Ron, you are pathetic.

 

[GraceSaves]

So much for civility, Curtis.

I think it's time I take one of those periodic BB breaks.

 

[trying2understand]

Originally posted by Bro. Curtis:
I said...

Sanctification, to me, means that we overcome, with the help of the Lord, the willingness to sin.

But sanctification is the work of the Holy spirit, and the result is that we live a life, down here, that more closely resembles the life of Christ.
Curtis, you left out the very first sentence of your definition of santification.

Does the Holy Spirit reside in Pagans ?

Ron, you are pathetic.

Curtis, you left out the opening of your definition of santification.

"Since sanctified means "can't sin", then only at death could we acheive this."

Pagans would meet your definition too. If they are dead they ain't sinning either.

BTW, where did you get your definition of sanctified? ie - can't sin?

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Go ahead with yer break, Grant. If you can't see that Ron twisted my words around, and lying about what I said, or won't admit he did it, then we got nothing to talk about.

Don't let the cyber-door hit you in the butt on the way out.

Yup, I tried to be civil. And look what I got for it.

 

[GraceSaves]

Originally posted by Bro. Curtis:
Go ahead with yer break, Grant. If you can't see that Ron twisted my words around, and lying about what I said, or won't admit he did it, then we got nothing to talk about.

Don't let the cyber-door hit you in the butt on the way out.

Yup, I tried to be civil. And look what I got for it.

Eye for an eye, right Curtis?

Oh wait...

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Grant, we are trying to discuss something here, and Ron lied. If you deny this, then I can't think either one of you want to have a civil discussion.

 

[GraceSaves]

Originally posted by Bro. Curtis:
Grant, we are trying to discuss something here, and Ron lied. If you deny this, then I can't think either one of you want to have a civil discussion.

Ohh, like the example you set on Dr. Bob's thread, right?

 

[LaRae]

Originally posted by Bro. Curtis:
Go ahead with yer break, Grant. If you can't see that Ron twisted my words around, and lying about what I said, or won't admit he did it, then we got nothing to talk about.

Don't let the cyber-door hit you in the butt on the way out.

Yup, I tried to be civil. And look what I got for it.

I guess that the Bible is wrong then when it says 'do unto others as you would have them do unto you'.


LaRae

 

[trying2understand]

Curtis, are you not the person who has several times said that if someone is getting mad it must be because the truth is getting to them?

I have not been mad, but it does appear that you are.

I am merely trying to point out what I see as difficulties with your statements here.

Not to offend, but it appears to me that you make it up as you go.

I have looked and can find no definition of "santification" which even approximates "can't sin".

Creating one's own definitions is poor form in a debate.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

As are lying, and twisting words, Ron.

Grant, you say Bob's lieing, I say he's right on.

Larae, good to see you. Haven't seen you 'round, of late.

 

[trying2understand]

Originally posted by Bro. Curtis:
As are lying, and twisting words, Ron.

Grant, you say Bob's lieing, I say he's right on.

Larae, good to see you. Haven't seen you 'round, of late.

Having labled me as lying...

please, point out my exact words.

 

[GraceSaves]

Originally posted by Bro. Curtis:
Grant, you say Bob's lieing, I say he's right on.

Alright. It's settled. The text of 1 Timothy does not contain the word "rejected."

Because you hold to an obvious lie, I will no longer discuss with you. This is not a matter of interpretation or belief; it's an outright lie.

Nice talking to you, Curtis.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Promises, promises.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Double post deleted

 

[GraceSaves]

I hope everyone can see that Curtis is holding to a direct lie and is unrepentant. I'm too frustrated to deal with such things, so I'm stopping posting for the day. I hope that when I come back some people will have fessed up.