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Ron Pauls Secret Weapon

Havensdad

New Member
Ron Paul does not want to be President. He wants to increase circulation of his next newsletter. Every time he runs he increases circulation. Last time around he reaped about a million dollars a year profit. This time he will reap a couple of million dollars profit.

And, the reason people are ignoring him is not some media bias (though that is certainly there). It is the plain fact that he is a liberal flake masquerading as a conservative Republican. Other than his stance on the Constitution (which he sees through a very libertarian lens) he is more liberal than Obama on many of his other platform stances, from foreign policy to drugs.

Ug, you are so misinformed. You have been listening to one of those establishment idiots like Michael Savage or Dick Morris, haven't you.

Abortion: Vehemently conservative/pro life.

Financial: THE MOST CONSERVATIVE of all the candidates.

Military: Classic conservative stance. Strong defense, no undeclared wars.

Moral issues: Neither conservative (BAN SIN!) nor liberal (ALLOW SIN!) but Constitutional (LET EACH STATE DECIDE).

Obama has actually governed almost identically to George Bush Jr. He has continued the same military policy, the same fiscal policies, the same policies on just about everything, with the single exception of some secondary social issues, like DADT.
 

InTheLight

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Financial: THE MOST CONSERVATIVE of all the candidates.

Yes, including wanting to go back to the currency policies of the 1800's!

Military: Classic conservative stance. Strong defense, no undeclared wars.

Agreed, but I'm for an American presence overseas, just not as pronounced as we are now. Paul apparently wants to bring all the troops home and shutter the bases.

Moral issues: Neither conservative (BAN SIN!) nor liberal (ALLOW SIN!) but Constitutional (LET EACH STATE DECIDE).

Agreed. How can freedom be defined as liberal or conservative?


Obama has actually governed almost identically to George Bush Jr. He has continued the same military policy, the same fiscal policies, the same policies on just about everything, with the single exception of some secondary social issues, like DADT.

Pretty much agree again, with some variations, like health care and the scope of stimulus programs.
 

glfredrick

New Member
Ug, you are so misinformed. You have been listening to one of those establishment idiots like Michael Savage or Dick Morris, haven't you.

Abortion: Vehemently conservative/pro life.

Financial: THE MOST CONSERVATIVE of all the candidates.

Military: Classic conservative stance. Strong defense, no undeclared wars.

Moral issues: Neither conservative (BAN SIN!) nor liberal (ALLOW SIN!) but Constitutional (LET EACH STATE DECIDE).

Obama has actually governed almost identically to George Bush Jr. He has continued the same military policy, the same fiscal policies, the same policies on just about everything, with the single exception of some secondary social issues, like DADT.

Um, no... I've been reading Ron Paul and comparing him to current liberals. He is on the same page with many.
 

Havensdad

New Member
Um, no... I've been reading Ron Paul and comparing him to current liberals. He is on the same page with many.

So now if so-called "liberals" take some conservative views, we just rename those views "liberal," and mover further right? That does not make sense.

Paul's views are what are historically considered classic conservative views.
 

glfredrick

New Member
It is not that Paul does not sound conservative, he sure does. But the outworking of his actual plans are more toward liberal than conservative.

Withdrawing all troops from foreign interests, even to the ludicrous statement that he would not have sent our troops to combat Hitler, is in fact much more a liberal statment than a conservative statement. Oh, and we used to call the Department of Defense the "War Department" and we did that on purpose. That WAS its purpose before liberals hijacked America and held it hostage for over half a century.

His stance on drugs is MORE liberal than Clinton or Obama.

The only way he can go back to the gold standard is to gut the military and business, that ends up a more liberal stance than would appear from his rhetoric. It would also end up tossing most American citizens into poverty, and in the end we would become more dependent on government than less.

He has some well known positions on minorities (and this I believe, in part, drives his isolationist platform) that is far more liberal than anyone else currently running. In this regard, he is akin to Senator Robert Byrd and other old-school Democrats who consistently voted against civil rights. He spoke out against and voted against the Civil Rights Act.

He offers no protections for those who are sexually harrassed in the workplace, rights guarenteed by the Constitution he claims to hold.

He supports non-violent tax protest (Isn't the Occupy movement of that same nature?)

He has voted pro-prostitution (let everyone do whatever they like).

He supports gay marriage (let everyone do whatever they like).

He supports stem cell research, and has voted to fund it and he feels that the federal government ought have no say in fetal stem cell issues.

He is anti-death penalty.

He is supported by "Friends of the Earth" a radical liberal anti-enegry environmental group.



Admittedly, in some areas he is truly conservative, fiscal policy, his stance on churches and their role in society, and his view (mostly) of the Constitution, but some of his libertarian stances make him the true un-electable weirdo that he really is.
 

Havensdad

New Member
It is not that Paul does not sound conservative, he sure does. But the outworking of his actual plans are more toward liberal than conservative.

Withdrawing all troops from foreign interests, even to the ludicrous statement that he would not have sent our troops to combat Hitler, is in fact much more a liberal statment than a conservative statement.

Not so. Spending money we do not have is not "conservative." Nor is fighting undeclared wars. The big government idea that the military can be ordered around unilaterally by the President, like he is some kind of emperor, without the consent of the people through Congress, is a fascist, socialist, progressive and LIBERAL idea.

Oh, and we used to call the Department of Defense the "War Department" and we did that on purpose. That WAS its purpose before liberals hijacked America and held it hostage for over half a century.

Right. War department. As in "To fight declared wars." Now it is more innocuous..."defense."

His stance on drugs is MORE liberal than Clinton or Obama.

Its not "more liberal." Its more constitutional.

The only way he can go back to the gold standard is to gut the military and business, that ends up a more liberal stance than would appear from his rhetoric. It would also end up tossing most American citizens into poverty, and in the end we would become more dependent on government than less.

No it wouldn't. It would stabilize our economy. And he has stated that these would not be immediate actions.

He has some well known positions on minorities (and this I believe, in part, drives his isolationist platform) that is far more liberal than anyone else currently running. In this regard, he is akin to Senator Robert Byrd and other old-school Democrats who consistently voted against civil rights. He spoke out against and voted against the Civil Rights Act.

He is a vehement anti-racist. He is against any legislation that give more rights to one group than another. He is right on that.

Paul is the most outspoken of any republican when it comes to defense of minorities and the weak. He has for the last ten years, continually decried the injustice in our court systems. His pleas have fell on deaf ears.

He offers no protections for those who are sexually harrassed in the workplace, rights guarenteed by the Constitution he claims to hold.

The Constitution does not guarantee your rights, on my property. You cannot come into my house and demand the right to free speech. The Constitution only forbids the GOVERNMENT from abridging your rights.

He supports non-violent tax protest (Isn't the Occupy movement of that same nature?)

Uh, so?

He has voted pro-prostitution (let everyone do whatever they like).

You mean he has voted for freedom. Yep. He does not believe the federal government should exercise power not enumerated in the Constitution. He believes in the 10th amendment, no doubt.

He supports gay marriage (let everyone do whatever they like).

He is AGAINST the government recognition or participation in ANY marriage. He believes it is a church issue, that the government should not have part in. I agree; if they want to call themselves "married" or think that they are magical unicorns, they can believe whatever they wish. But under Paul's small government idea, I am NOT forced to recognize it. That is NOT the liberal position (which says the Government should recognize and authenticate same-sex marriage).

He supports stem cell research, and has voted to fund it and he feels that the federal government ought have no say in fetal stem cell issues.

He supports adult stem cell research (I don't know any conservatives who are against that...), and believes the government has no say in fetal stem cell issues that arise from natural causes...however, he has repeatedly stated that he is against growing and harvesting embryos.

So, tell me, you are against transplants?

He is anti-death penalty.

The FEDERAL death penalty. And conservatives have not always agreed on this issue. There are plenty of Christian social conservatives who have always rejected the death penalty.

He is supported by "Friends of the Earth" a radical liberal anti-enegry environmental group.

So? Romney is supported by gangsters and casino owners. Gingrich is supported by questionable people. Support for someone does not equate to a position.

Admittedly, in some areas he is truly conservative, fiscal policy, his stance on churches and their role in society, and his view (mostly) of the Constitution, but some of his libertarian stances make him the true un-electable weirdo that he really is.

Actually, in a general election, he is the MOST electable. He would trounce Obama, due to independents, and anti-war democrats...
 

Mexdeaf

New Member
Actually, in a general election, he is the MOST electable. He would trounce Obama, due to independents, and anti-war democrats...

I think the deck is already stacked and we will have four more years of "same-old, same-old" regardless of whom the Republican candidate is.
 

InTheLight

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Actually, its not just democrats, but independents as well. And it is NOT mostly "fair weather" friends, who just want to get Ron Paul nominated so Obama can be president. There is a HUGE push for Ron Paul, from anti-war democrats who actually want him as president, cause they know he will shut down the war machine.

The fact is, most of those (democrats and independents) voting in these primaries are people who like and want Dr. Paul as president.


Do you have any polling data to support this view?
 

InTheLight

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Only personal testimony from Democrats, saying they are not voting for Obama if Paul wins the nomination.

Here's a poll showing that if Paul were running as a third party candidate only 8% of Democrats would vote for him and 28% of independents. 85% of Democrats said they would not vote for him; 63% of independents said they would not vote for him. In the same poll 16% of all voters said they would vote for him; 76% said they would not.

http://zogby.com/news/2011/12/01/ib...onger-3rd-party-candidate-nader-or-bloomberg/
 

Havensdad

New Member
Here's a poll showing that if Paul were running as a third party candidate only 8% of Democrats would vote for him and 28% of independents. 85% of Democrats said they would not vote for him; 63% of independents said they would not vote for him. In the same poll 16% of all voters said they would vote for him; 76% said they would not.

http://zogby.com/news/2011/12/01/ib...onger-3rd-party-candidate-nader-or-bloomberg/

Great! Now I wonder what it looks like when you give him the Republican nomination. Assuming that 1/3 of the independents would be voting for the Republican nominee...that means Paul, as the Republican nominee, would get almost 10 percent of democrats (or more...a lot of people, and I mean a LOT, refuse to vote for third parties cause they say you "throw your vote away"), and 2/3 of independents... more than enough to get elected!
 

poncho

Well-Known Member
Man this is scary! You all treat the future of the country like a football game.

Who's going to be in the play offs this year? Well the Rams have to win in Buffalo for Miami to get a wildcard and Dallas has to win in Denver . . .

In the meantime only one man in the whole crowded field is actually speeking on important issues the rest are just trying to get elected.

National elections, just another corporate sponsored dog and pony show. Just like NASCAR and the NFL.
 
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poncho

Well-Known Member
And you wonder why I call Paul a liberal...

I don't wonder about it all. The corporate engineers of this election cycle have put in millions of man hours and invested billions of dollars to form your opinion.

What's there to wonder about?
 

NiteShift

New Member
I don't wonder about it all. The corporate engineers of this election cycle have put in millions of man hours and invested billions of dollars to form your opinion.

But somehow the masters of the universe couldn't manage to shut down the conspiricy sites. Foiled again!
 

glfredrick

New Member
I don't wonder about it all. The corporate engineers of this election cycle have put in millions of man hours and invested billions of dollars to form your opinion.

What's there to wonder about?

And, you are the ONLY one among us that knows that, right?

Sheesh, give me a break already. In the past 6 years I've read over 50 books on the political system, the history of party activity, the conspiracy theories, and the behind the scenes stories behind each election going back to Eisenhower. I know a little bit about the current state of affairs in American politics.

I also know that Ron Paul is a libertarian flake pretending to be a Republican conservative. Should he -- somehow -- manage to gain the party nomination we will see another Goldwater cycle, Obma will win, and we will also see America become, well, no longer America. Should -- gasp, gasp -- Paul actually inherit the White House (about one chance in a billion, but weird things are happening in American politics these days) he will be the fall guy for all of Obama's delayed bills and on top of that he would end up being a liar in office for there is no way he could ever enact the stuff he is saying on the campaign trail. In either case, he would eventually hurt the chances for America to regain any level of sensibility in our governance.

That being said, none of the other candidates are all that attractive either, for many of the same reasons, except most of the others are, at least, not off-the-wall flakes.

Oh, and if Paul could just adopt the platform of his kiddo, I would support him a bit more, but daddy is just too far out there... Like space alien out there...
 

Earth Wind and Fire

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
"I also know that Ron Paul is a libertarian flake pretending to be a Republican conservative."

No kidding.....do ya think?!? :laugh:
 

glfredrick

New Member
"I also know that Ron Paul is a libertarian flake pretending to be a Republican conservative."

No kidding.....do ya think?!? :laugh:

Yeah, I know. And I'm the one in trouble around here for saying so. :thumbs:

Paul should just go back to his newsletters. By now, I'm sure that he has increased circulation enough to make his next couple of million dollars. :type:
 
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