Faith Fact Feeling
New Member
Thanks Jim. I'm sure we share many views in common. I have actually completed a doctoral course in Calvinism (for what thats worth). So I am familiar with this issue more than most. See ya.
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Ruckman
- Thread starter 2chron7:14
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Gene said, "So, then how do you explain all the four - letter words that he scrawled across his correspondence with Dr. White? Oh, let me guess, Dr. White "doctored" the letters. It's just a conspiracy."
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I have read the posted exchange three times looking for "all the four-letter words". They are not there.
What I found was Dr. Ruckman calling Mr. White a "conceited ***" three or four times. Granted, that "ain't nice". Dr. Ruckman also called Mr. White a liar several times. IMO he was speaking the truth. What do you call someone who intentionally misrepresents what you say?
What I also found was several references to Mr. White's maturity. Not the best way to win friends and infleunce people, but nevertheless, it is not cussing. I used to subscribe to the Bible Believers Bulletin. What I found in them was the same attitude displayed in this exchange with Mr. White. I believe Dr. Ruckman replies to folks like Mr. White the way he does because a) he is tired of every 'Tom-Dick-n-Harry' coming along to 'straighten-him-out', and b) his publications have already addressed the issues these new generation wanna be scholars are re-hashing. That does not excuse his abrasiveness at all. It does explain it. And (in the flesh) it is understandable. Who has NOT displayed less that prefect graciousness when dealing with antagonists? Only Jesus, (that I know of).
I have already discussed what I thought of the man. I believe he is a saved man of God who has a very tender heart for the lost, the down-n-out, prisoners, whores, druggies, and your average everyday man.
He has no patience for self professed "scholars". The fact he loses his patience when dealing with them simply displays a weakness of his. Who doesn't have a weakness? Should he be in the pulpit? Perhaps not. But that is for God to deal with. We are told to...
Ga 6:1
Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.
I don't see very much meekness in this thread. In fact, what I see is the same kind of vitriol you all are condemning.
In HIS service;
Jim
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I have read the posted exchange three times looking for "all the four-letter words". They are not there.
What I found was Dr. Ruckman calling Mr. White a "conceited ***" three or four times. Granted, that "ain't nice". Dr. Ruckman also called Mr. White a liar several times. IMO he was speaking the truth. What do you call someone who intentionally misrepresents what you say?
What I also found was several references to Mr. White's maturity. Not the best way to win friends and infleunce people, but nevertheless, it is not cussing. I used to subscribe to the Bible Believers Bulletin. What I found in them was the same attitude displayed in this exchange with Mr. White. I believe Dr. Ruckman replies to folks like Mr. White the way he does because a) he is tired of every 'Tom-Dick-n-Harry' coming along to 'straighten-him-out', and b) his publications have already addressed the issues these new generation wanna be scholars are re-hashing. That does not excuse his abrasiveness at all. It does explain it. And (in the flesh) it is understandable. Who has NOT displayed less that prefect graciousness when dealing with antagonists? Only Jesus, (that I know of).
I have already discussed what I thought of the man. I believe he is a saved man of God who has a very tender heart for the lost, the down-n-out, prisoners, whores, druggies, and your average everyday man.
He has no patience for self professed "scholars". The fact he loses his patience when dealing with them simply displays a weakness of his. Who doesn't have a weakness? Should he be in the pulpit? Perhaps not. But that is for God to deal with. We are told to...
Ga 6:1
Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.
I don't see very much meekness in this thread. In fact, what I see is the same kind of vitriol you all are condemning.
In HIS service;
Jim
Funny. It obviously escapes you that the exact reasoning you gave is why Ruckman cusses in public. I don't agree with him there. But he is the exact opposite of the hypocrite you describe.
Not according to his publications.
BTW, do you cuss....ever??
Not NOW...I was a sailor '66 to '70, and was then unsaved. And "cuss like a sailor" isn't simply a metaphoric phrase. In fact, I was such a "cussbucket" that I asked GOD to remove it from my life...and since I did MY part in consciously monitoring my language, HE DID THE REST. Cussing no longer enters my mind even when I get upset.
OK, let's say for the sake of argument that Dr. Ruckman repents of all his blackguarding. Does that justify his wacko, totally-false "advanced revelation" trash, or his false prophecies?
Not according to his publications.
BTW, do you cuss....ever??
Not NOW...I was a sailor '66 to '70, and was then unsaved. And "cuss like a sailor" isn't simply a metaphoric phrase. In fact, I was such a "cussbucket" that I asked GOD to remove it from my life...and since I did MY part in consciously monitoring my language, HE DID THE REST. Cussing no longer enters my mind even when I get upset.
OK, let's say for the sake of argument that Dr. Ruckman repents of all his blackguarding. Does that justify his wacko, totally-false "advanced revelation" trash, or his false prophecies?
GeneMBridges
New Member
Yes. I agree. We have a forum for that. No interest here in derailing the thread. I just wanted to point out that there are some weighty matters to consider here. If Ruckman's character is to be discussed then what I had to say bears mentioning. </font>[/QUOTE]No, it does not bear mentioning, because Ruckman's cursings are not exegetical. What you said amounts to nothing more than the red herring fallacy of argumentation. (Yet another logical fallacy that KJVOists employ).
Calvinism in no way makes God out to be unloving. It can be argued to the contrary that it would be unloving to ground election in man's faith, since, left to their own devices, no man would ever come to faith in Christ. Simply put, that one statement shows you understand a caricature of Reformed theology, not Reformed theology itself. (Probably right out of Dave, "I can't handle sources correctly," Hunt's books). Let's not forget that in your scheme of things if nobody gets a chance to respond to the gospel, then God is just as unjust as you make Calvinism's version out to be, and He's powerless to save, because not all people receive a chance, and His power to save is subject to His own creation, in contradiction to His own essence, and the Persons of the Trinity are all set in opposition to each other since Jesus intercedes for persons that the Father does not save and the Holy Spirit draws some persons that are not saved.
If you have issues with it, then by all means come to the Calvinism/Arminianism forum and test your views there.It's worth noting that you KJVO guys that repudiate Reformed soteriology and chastise MV's because of a supposed association with Roman Catholicism are, in fact, holding to Arminian soteriology which is, in essence Roman Catholic, and you also neglect to understand that the translators of the KJV were Anglicans, and Anglicans were either of the Catholic variety or the Calvinist variety, being Anglican followers of John Knox. Let's not forget that King James himself said he wished to "harrow out Baptists," from England. Yet another KJV double standard...
Still waiting for people to deal with his numerous false prophecies. How much bad behavior and false prophecy does it take before a man becomes a false prophet?
I believe Dr. Ruckman replies to folks like Mr. White the way he does because a) he is tired of every 'Tom-Dick-n-Harry' coming along to 'straighten-him-out', and b) his publications have already addressed the issues these new generation wanna be scholars are re-hashing.
Ruckman is descibed well in
2 Peter 2:12-22, "But these, like unreasoning animals, born as creatures of instinct to be captured and killed, reviling where they have no knowledge, will in the destruction of those creatures also be destroyed, suffering wrong as the wages of doing wrong. They count it a pleasure to revel in the daytime. They are stains and blemishes, reveling in their deceptions, as they carouse with you, having eyes full of adultery that never cease from sin, enticing unstable souls, having a heart trained in greed, accursed children; forsaking the right way, they have gone astray, having followed the way of Balaam, the [son] of Beor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; but he received a rebuke for his own transgression, for a mute donkey, speaking with a voice of a man, restrained the madness of the prophet. These are springs without water and mists driven by a storm, for whom the black darkness has been reserved. 18 For speaking out arrogant words of vanity they entice by fleshly desires, by sensuality, those who barely escape from the ones who live in error, promising them freedom while they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by what a man is overcome, by this he is enslaved. For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them. It has happened to them according to the true proverb, "A dog returns to its own vomit," and, "A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire."
Ruckman is descibed well in
2 Peter 2:12-22, "But these, like unreasoning animals, born as creatures of instinct to be captured and killed, reviling where they have no knowledge, will in the destruction of those creatures also be destroyed, suffering wrong as the wages of doing wrong. They count it a pleasure to revel in the daytime. They are stains and blemishes, reveling in their deceptions, as they carouse with you, having eyes full of adultery that never cease from sin, enticing unstable souls, having a heart trained in greed, accursed children; forsaking the right way, they have gone astray, having followed the way of Balaam, the [son] of Beor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; but he received a rebuke for his own transgression, for a mute donkey, speaking with a voice of a man, restrained the madness of the prophet. These are springs without water and mists driven by a storm, for whom the black darkness has been reserved. 18 For speaking out arrogant words of vanity they entice by fleshly desires, by sensuality, those who barely escape from the ones who live in error, promising them freedom while they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by what a man is overcome, by this he is enslaved. For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them. It has happened to them according to the true proverb, "A dog returns to its own vomit," and, "A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire."
What I always wonder about men such as Ruckman is this: Why is there such a blatant one-dimensionality in their ministry focus? Has Ruckman ever written anything about some topic other than his pro-KJVO/anti-MV agenda?
When I've read through issues of his publication, the Bible Believer's Bulletin, seeing for myself what his views & beliefs are- his sole focus in ministry seems to be to assail "Alexandrians". His sole litmus test for separation from and/or association with other believers (I give him the benefit of the doubt, although I'm aware that some on the BB may not) is based upon their stance regarding KJVOism.
There are other men who are likewise fixated on one "hobby horse" aspect of the Christian life (I'm sure we can all think of some prime examples)- who similarly lack a healthy "balance". Does God call us to be simply "one-note" Christians? I for one don't believe He does. What then drives men such as Ruckman to seemingly negate all other aspects of a healthy, balanced Christian life?
When I've read through issues of his publication, the Bible Believer's Bulletin, seeing for myself what his views & beliefs are- his sole focus in ministry seems to be to assail "Alexandrians". His sole litmus test for separation from and/or association with other believers (I give him the benefit of the doubt, although I'm aware that some on the BB may not) is based upon their stance regarding KJVOism.
There are other men who are likewise fixated on one "hobby horse" aspect of the Christian life (I'm sure we can all think of some prime examples)- who similarly lack a healthy "balance". Does God call us to be simply "one-note" Christians? I for one don't believe He does. What then drives men such as Ruckman to seemingly negate all other aspects of a healthy, balanced Christian life?
GeneMBridges
New Member
So on that basis, then it is okay for us to excuse the behavior of others and their errors. You know, he would not be feeling that way if he would do what is right and repent of his error. Every "Tom-Dick-n-Harry" wouldn't be trying to "straighten him out" if he wasn't in such serious error. If this was persistence in sexual immorality or some such sin, you'd sing quite the different tune.
His publications are in error. Any man that exceeds Scripture itself to support his position, particularly claiming "advanced revelation" is well outside the bounds of orthodoxy (and neo-orthodoxy in Ruckman's case).
I call him Peter Ruckman. If you will compare the emails that he and White exchanged with what Ruckman later said about them here: http://aomin.org/ResponseToRuckman.html
you will see exactly who misrepresents whom, since Ruckman actually misrepresents the content of the exchanges he and White had...
How many lies, false prophecies, and instances of bad behavior does it take for a false prophet to be false?
NaasPreacher (C4K)
Well-Known Member
No.
An IRISHMAN not cuss?
Last time I heard an Irishman say he didn't cuss, I heard that the Oireachtas listened to him speak & then made a new law declaring some words commonly-used by that man as "cuss" words! They DID have a reputation to uphold!(LOL)
(Humor Only!)
Last time I heard an Irishman say he didn't cuss, I heard that the Oireachtas listened to him speak & then made a new law declaring some words commonly-used by that man as "cuss" words! They DID have a reputation to uphold!(LOL)
(Humor Only!)
NaasPreacher (C4K)
Well-Known Member
Sorry to let you down rc3 - but I am a Yank living here
NaasPreacher (C4K)
Well-Known Member
I don't want my fingers slammed in a door - but I am not lying about cussing. Have not is nearly 30 years. Declare me a liar if you wish.
Even if I did - there is a huge difference between that and cussing in a debate with with brother in Christ.
Even if I did - there is a huge difference between that and cussing in a debate with with brother in Christ.
You can only repeat what you know. If you are unaware of that limit of vocabulary then you will not use what you do not know.Originally posted by Ps104_33:
Anyone here who says that they never let a curseword slip, come on over to my house I would like to slam your fingers in my car door.
Every person should be treated like that, whether they are unsaved or immature. </font>[/QUOTE]I get it GB, using curse words makes you big, tough and mature. You are setting an example for that poor, ignorant, immature sole that you are correcting. I get it now. . .Originally posted by gb93433:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Phillip:
This long post makes me so proud that someone would stand up for someone who uses curse words when anyone disagrees with him.
