Rythym does what for the body?

[Salamander]

It can't be proven.

It has and you refuse to accept the facts.

First one would have to prove that music affects everyone the same. It does not.

Of course music doesn't effect everyone the same, we each have our preferences in music and once exposed to a certain style one doesn't really know if they are attracted to that style.

Second, one would have to define just what "rhythm based" music is. When does it cross over from melody to rhythm? Isn't melody rhythmic?

Um, did you somehow miss the question? What part of "Rhythym BASED music "did you not understand?

Third, one would have to prove the Bible teaches this, it does not.

Better re-read your Bible then apply it to all aspects of life according to practicality and principle.

 

[Salamander]

Salamander you are sounding somewhat gnostic.

You seem to be promoting the idea that flesh is evil which is a pagan idea, not Christian.

I heard that a lot in college about certain types of music stimulating sexual repsponses as if even if that were true that would make it wrong.

It might make a good argument that certain music was not always appropriate but even that would not make such music inherently evil.

I will have to sk you to clarify what is "appropiate" and what makes it inappropiate to help establish "appropiate"?

Wouldn't the association of the driving beat and the bodily actions demand some sort of conclusion as to whether or not it is sexual/fleshy?

Sometimes I cannot believe what I am having to address in these discussions!:sleep:

 

[thegospelgeek]

We're not discussing YOUR experiences or YOUR style.

My "theory" is facts, not thoeries.

YOU stated that rhythmic music causes sexual movements. I stated is does not whith me. Therefore you FACT is incorrect. You may chose to reword your FACT that "sometimes" in "some people"rythmic musci cause sexual movements and I would believe it. But as stated it is not a fact.

 

[tinytim]

Bible, Sal... Not your misguided notions....

Either post scripture.. or quit wasting bandwith declaring your opinions to be equal with God's word.

Where in the Bible does it condemn ryhthem?

If it is not in there, then you should apologize.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

There is no Bible answer Tim, that is obvious.

It is only opinion, end of story.

There will not be a Bible basis posted here. I am certain of that.

 

[Salamander]

I have had the privilege of worshiping with brothers and sisters of the 'African-American' (if I may use that term) persuasion.

They really do 'get into' their worship music but there was NOTHING sexual about it- as matter of fact I felt that their experience was more transparent and real than many 'traditional' services that I have attended.

That being said- I will repeat what I said on another thread in regards to music because it bears repeating- "We grow on Bible teaching, not music.

My philosophy- if you teach and preach the Word of God correctly and consistently, it will produce fruit every time."

Music is to prepare the heart for the message. I have chosen two songs for tonights service that go along with the message God laid on my heart for tonight.

I am going to preach with the people concerned about the Honour God deserves. I am NOT going to entertaion any group of people according to any particular persuasion.

It's all about the message we're sending.

Here is a "non" baptist's view I just received via PM, and I KNOW they have the proper perspective and ARE persuaded by the RIGHT Person!:smilewinkgrin: :

I am not technically a baptist at the moment so won't post on the forum, but your post about rythym is right on target.

We lived many years next door to the rez. You would be surprised, were you to film the typical praise and worship or ccm music based service, then run it without the sound at just how identical the services often appear to either a navajo sing or to pagan worship in africa.

I doubt we want to send the message we ARE sending to the pagan world when they see our televised services.

And yes, at least the african beats ARE to stimulate the simulation of the sex act, believing this helps insure fertility of the tribe and the tribal lands.

The drubbing you are getting on the forum is just this: those beats, tools of the devil, foster rebellion. Tell people steeped in rebellion that they are wrong and they are gonna bite and devour you.

Just read the blogs and interviews of many of the ccm folks--some have come out gay, many are divorced or have had affairs, some are openly rebellious against parents or society in general, and many see Christianity as a form of rebellion. What does that tell us????

Rock music is based on african music, which is pagan worship music, which is definitely in rebellion against the one true God.

Just ask any teen if rock music and rebellion go hand in hand.

And keep preaching!

Jump it, [crude comments deleted], or Bump it!:godisgood:

 

[Salamander]

Actually there is one.

Galatians 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.​

However "rhythm" is not condemned in the Scripture.​

There are natural rhythms everywhere in creation and the universe as mentioned above.​

Start with the lunar cycle, the annual cycle.
The flight of birds and insects depends upon the cycle of the flapping of their wings.
Pulsar stars.
etc, etc...​

All of God's creation is "very good".​

My personal opinion is that our evil hearts and minds supply the darkness that makes the essence of sin.​

Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?​

Until we are made clean by the blood of Christ.​

Titus 1:15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.​

HankD​

Good post!

My concern is that when what is clearly the music based upon the driving beat as best described as "rhythym BASED" is "adopted" into worship, we see how it DOES effect the people and HOW the world views it as conformity to THEIR expectations and NOT God's.

 

[Salamander]

YOU stated that rhythmic music causes sexual movements.

Quote me. I said CERTAIN styles effect sexuality, wake up!

I stated is does not whith me. Therefore you FACT is incorrect.

Therefore it only applies to your little utopian mentality excluding yourself from the rest of the world and you've become a hermit.

You may chose to reword your FACT that "sometimes" in "some people"rythmic musci cause sexual movements and I would believe it. But as stated it is not a fact.

Twisted again aren't "we"?

 

[thegospelgeek]

Rythyms of certain distinctions DO cause a folowing of rythmic undulations of the body in response to those rythyms.

Certain body movements don't just suggest sexually explicit ideas to the onlooking, but they are actual movements involved in intercourse. These movements are a reaction to those rythyms. denial of this fatc means the denier has never seen "Soul Train"

There is the quote.

It has and you refuse to accept the facts.

Where was this proved? [/QUOTE]please provide the link, verse, etc

Of course music doesn't effect everyone the same, we each have our preferences in music and once exposed to a certain style one doesn't really know if they are attracted to that style.

If music does not effect all people the same how can it be evil or good? Music in and of itself is neutral. It is just sound. by adding lyrics one can make it scriptural or evil.

Um, did you somehow miss the question? What part of "Rhythym BASED music "did you not understand?

Evidently all of it. What is Rhytmic based music. Please give me an example. Is "Amazing Grace" rhytmic based? How about "Be thou my vision" or maybe something newer by the Gaither's, Kutless, or casting crowns. Are we really talking about Rhytim or time. Somone please give me a song that is rhymic based and one that is not. Where is the line drawn between the two?

Better re-read your Bible then apply it to all aspects of life according to practicality and principle.

Been ther, done that. Nothing about "Rythmic music" was found.

Sal, you will probably find that I live as "Old fashioned" a life as you do. However, there is NO scripture that condems music in any way shape or form. Lyrics you can make an argument for. Some music is appropriate for church, some is not. However, you can not show me where any music is sinful, worldly, or any other definition you want to use.

 

[Salamander]

Bible, Sal... Not your misguided notions....

Either post scripture.. or quit wasting bandwith declaring your opinions to be equal with God's word.

Where in the Bible does it condemn ryhthem?

If it is not in there, then you should apologize.

If YOU would stop operating from the same mindset YOU claimed almost caused YOUR departure from the BB then you wouldn't have responded to me, AGAIN, with such disdain.

I have never said the Bible condemns rhythym and the question is far beyond the confines you'd like to place it within.

For the thrid time, the question is about RHYTYM BASED MUSIC as defined by C4K.

It is the hard,cold, facts of reality you're stumbling on, demanding the Bible and the God who inspired it to bow to you to excise a portion of Scripture to SPELL IT OUT !

What ever happened to a people who are supposed to be taught of God according to precepts and principles in examples?

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Sal, you will probably find that I live as "Old fashioned" a life as you do. However, there is NO scripture that condems music in any way shape or form. Lyrics you can make an argument for. Some music is appropriate for church, some is not. However, you can not show me where any music is sinful, worldly, or any other definition you want to use.

Yup, on the same page here. I do not think all music is appropriate for church. Our music is very conservative. Part of it is preference, part an identification issue, but I cannot claim that the Bible teaches that rhythm based music weaknes the spiritual side of man.

Why? Because the Bible doesn't teach it.

 

[Salamander]

There is the quote.

Where was this proved?

please provide the link, verse, etc

If music does not effect all people the same how can it be evil or good? Music in and of itself is neutral. It is just sound. by adding lyrics one can make it scriptural or evil.

:laugh: Then why the bodily response?

Your ideal of the nuetrality of music denies the reality of where music originates and how it is distinguished by its locale.

Evidently all of it. What is Rhytmic based music. Please give me an example. Is "Amazing Grace" rhytmic based? How about "Be thou my vision" or maybe something newer by the Gaither's, Kutless, or casting crowns. Are we really talking about Rhytim or time. Somone please give me a song that is rhymic based and one that is not. Where is the line drawn between the two?

You're carrying on an arguement with some one else by naming out specifics not applicable here.

Show me any "tribal" music that doesn't incorporate the driving beat/rhythym based music?

Been ther, done that. Nothing about "Rythmic music" was found.

Sal, you will probably find that I live as "Old fashioned" a life as you do. However, there is NO scripture that condems music in any way shape or form. Lyrics you can make an argument for. Some music is appropriate for church, some is not. However, you can not show me where any music is sinful, worldly, or any other definition you want to use.

I'll have to ask YOU to clarify this.:smilewinkgrin:

 

[Salamander]

Yup, on the same page here. I do not think all music is appropriate for church. Our music is very conservative. Part of it is preference, part an identification issue, but I cannot claim that the Bible teaches that rhythm based music weaknes the spiritual side of man.

Why? Because the Bible doesn't teach it.

Then you're admitting that your church is led by tradition and not of God.:sleep:

If it's not "appropiate" tells us apart from tradition, that started somewhere, biblically, hopefully, what makes it that way?

Could it be the old, "can't see the forest because of the trees" issue?:saint:

 

[thegospelgeek]

Yup, on the same page here. I do not think all music is appropriate for church. Our music is very conservative. Part of it is preference, part an identification issue, but I cannot claim that the Bible teaches that rhythm based music weaknes the spiritual side of man.

Why? Because the Bible doesn't teach it.

I deal with this issue a LOT. I attend small FWB churches where most beleive that the only spiritual music is what they listen to. Which is generally hymns and Southern Gosple with a very small dose of Bluegrass.

<rant>I hear preachers preach on this "modern Contempory Music" and how ungodly it is. I am an Assistant pastor and have hear the Pastor say this very thing. I play (barely) Acoustic Guitar and sing some contempory songs in the services and the same people come to me and say how much they love the song and where did I get it. Did you write that? etc. I just laugh and tell them it is a contempory song by such and such. People need to learn. God works in all sorts of people and all sorts of music. He didn't stop inspiring song leaders 200 years ago, 100 years ago or even 25 years ago. He's still on his throne and still God. Not just my little private version of such </rant>

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

I deal with this issue a LOT. I attend small FWB churches where most beleive that the only spiritual music is what they listen to. Which is generally hymns and Southern Gosple with a very small dose of Bluegrass.

<rant>I hear preachers preach on this "modern Contempory Music" and how ungodly it is. I am an Assistant pastor and have hear the Pastor say this very thing. I play (barely) Acoustic Guitar and sing some contempory songs in the services and the same people come to me and say how much they love the song and where did I get it. Did you write that? etc. I just laugh and tell them it is a contempory song by such and such. People need to learn. God works in all sorts of people and all sorts of music. He didn't stop inspiring song leaders 200 years ago, 100 years ago or even 25 years ago. He's still on his throne and still God. Not just my little private version of such </rant>

Well, I didn't say all our music was old, just conservative . We are also not bound by one school's approved music.

Just trying to use Bible standards, not man's opinions.

 

[Salamander]

I deal with this issue a LOT. I attend small FWB churches where most beleive that the only spiritual music is what they listen to. Which is generally hymns and Southern Gosple with a very small dose of Bluegrass.

<rant>I hear preachers preach on this "modern Contempory Music" and how ungodly it is. I am an Assistant pastor and have hear the Pastor say this very thing. I play (barely) Acoustic Guitar and sing some contempory songs in the services and the same people come to me and say how much they love the song and where did I get it. Did you write that? etc. I just laugh and tell them it is a contempory song by such and such. People need to learn. God works in all sorts of people and all sorts of music. He didn't stop inspiring song leaders 200 years ago, 100 years ago or even 25 years ago. He's still on his throne and still God. Not just my little private version of such </rant>

Then by your estimation: God is capable of inspiring music until this day but only inspired His word in Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic.:laugh: Then you admit you played this music with an acoustic guitar, but where were the drums which make up "RHYTHYM BASED MUSIC" and the "DRIVING BEAT"?:sleep:

BTW, I belive I would stop placing so much emphasis on what people "like" and what you should know is according to the solemn sound as laid out in Scripture.

Define "solemnity", then define a "driving beat":thumbs:

 

[Salamander]

Well, I didn't say all our music was old, just conservative . We are also not bound by one school's approved music.

Then my estimation was right, you're bound by tradition instead of principle.

Just trying to use Bible standards, not man's opinions.

May I suggest you consider Bible precepts and apply sound reason according to principle vs what you're attemtping, in futility, as "man's opinions"?

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

BTW the world is spelled rhythm.

There have been about 10 different spellings in this thread alone - only one is correct .

 

[Mexdeaf]

:Jump it, [crude comments deleted], or Bump it!:godisgood:

Guess you must have been listening to some of 'that music' when you made those comments, huh?

 

[thegospelgeek]

:laugh: Then why the bodily response?[/qoute]There are several different bodily responses to the same music. In worship service, some raise hands, others close eyes, some tap feet, some do nothing. I find some music uplifting spiritaully that my wife does not and vica versa. To assume the same for all is a faulty place to start.

Your ideal of the nuetrality of music denies the reality of where music originates and how it is distinguished by its locale.

How does the location of origin come into play? Are we to only listen to musci from USA. Or any westen culture.

You're carrying on an arguement with some one else by naming out specifics not applicable here.

I just want an example of what is "Rythmic based" something i am familiar with so I know what we are discussing.

Show me any "tribal" music that doesn't incorporate the driving beat/rhythym based music?

There are tons.


I'll have to ask YOU to clarify this.:smilewinkgrin:

From a person perspective, I like hymns for church services. People are familar with them, they are easy to sing as a group, and the LYRICS deal with sunject matter appropriate to the setting. I do a great deal of Video montage stuff for Churches, sports, etc and some of the songs used with the live action are too fast for the church setting or the lyrics are of a different nature. The songs are fine in the context used, but would be out of place in the worship service. When we do VBS for small children we use childish songs. Great in context, not for adult worship. I hope this is clear. I do not know how to make it more so.