Sabbath for Gentiles

[BobRyan]

Do you consider this part of the Bible - deleted?

[FONT=&quot]1 Cor 7:19 "but [/FONT][FONT=&quot]what matters is keeping the Commandments of God[/FONT][FONT=&quot]".[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Rom 3:31 "[/FONT][FONT=&quot]do we then make void the law of God by our faith - God forbid! In fact we establish the Law of God[/FONT][FONT=&quot]".[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]James 2 "he who [/FONT][FONT=&quot]breaks one of the commandments is guilty of breaking all[/FONT][FONT=&quot]".[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Heb 4 "there [/FONT][FONT=&quot]remains therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God[/FONT][FONT=&quot]".[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Is 66 "[/FONT][FONT=&quot]From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to Worship[/FONT][FONT=&quot]".[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Mark 2:27 "The [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Sabbath was made for MANKIND[/FONT][FONT=&quot]".[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Matt 5 "[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Think not that I came to ABOLISH the Law of God - I came not to abolish but to fulfill[/FONT][FONT=&quot]".[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Christ perfectly fulfilled Lev 19:18 "[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Love your neighbor as yourself[/FONT][FONT=&quot]"[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Christ perfectly fulfilled Deut 6:5 "[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Love God with all of your heart, soul and mind[/FONT][FONT=&quot]".[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Is 56[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Blessed is the man[/FONT][FONT=&quot] who does this,[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
And the son of man who lays hold on it;
Who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And keeps his hand from doing any evil.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]3 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Do not let the son of the foreigner[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
Who has joined himself to the Lord
Speak, saying,
“The Lord has utterly separated me from His people”;
Nor let the eunuch say,
“Here I am, a dry tree.”
4 For thus says the Lord:[/FONT]
“To the eunuchs who keep My Sabbaths,
And choose what pleases Me,
And hold fast My covenant,
5 Even to them I will give in My house
And within My walls a place and a name
Better than that of sons and daughters;
I will give them an everlasting name
That shall not be cut off.
[FONT=&quot]6 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]“Also the sons of the foreigner[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him,
And to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants—
Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And holds fast My covenant—
7 Even them I will bring to My holy mountain,[/FONT]
And make them joyful in My house of prayer.
Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices
Will be accepted on My altar;
For My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations.”

How then to oppose this part of the word of God - some may ask.

.

Let's start with 56:6-7
It is true sons of strangers are enjoined to keep sabbath. This is used to show that God requires Gentiles as well and not just Jews to keep his sabbath. Is this a smoking gun?
Look at v7- 'their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar;'
The strangers burnt offerings and sacrifices will be accepted. But we know burnt sacrifices are no part of NT and we don't imagine they will resume in future.

Well if we ignore anything in the OT where people ALSO worship God via animal sacrifice - then we get to toss out a lot of what the NT authors keep referring to as "scripture".

Such eisegetical methods simply do not work.

The fact that the saints of Heb 11 ALSO offered animal sacrifices is no proof at all that the moral LAW of God is deleted.

You 'still' should not take God's name in vain - even though it is never quoted in the OT - even though saints in the OT that did not take God's name in vain ALSO offered animal sacrifices.

The really "sad" part of the post above where the author tries to refute God's Word in Is 56 is that it was "pretended" that only those who keep the Bible Sabbath would even notice these texts that point to the moral obligation on even gentiles to keep the Sabbath Commandment.

So then - is it really true that only those who keep the Bible Sabbath would notice this?

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

here we see an example of a gentile - pro-Sunday preacher who notices that the Sabbath commandment is for Gentiles -- even from Eden onward.

SDAs are not the only ones to claim that the Sabbath Commandment was given to all mankind in Eden and is still binding on us to this very day --

================================================

- D.L. Moody notices that some are opposed to the Sabbath Commandment - but notice how this sermon on the TEN Commandments also fits the summary of 7 points listed here on page 1??

BY THE
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]DWIGHT L. MOODY[/FONT][/FONT]​

The Ten Commandments:
Exodus 20:2-17 ​

.
The Fourth Commandment

​

Remember the Sabbath Day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: for in six days the LORD made heaven and Earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath Day, and hallowed it.​

[FONT=&quot]THERE HAS BEEN an awful letting-down in this country regarding the Sabbath during the last twenty-five years, and many a man has been shorn of spiritual power, like Samson, because he is not straight on this question. Can you say that you observe the Sabbath properly? You may be a professed Christian: are you obeying this commandment? Or do you neglect the house of God on the Sabbath day, and spend your time drinking and carousing in places of vice and crime, showing contempt for God and His law? Are you ready to step into the scales? Where were you last Sabbath? How did you spend it?

I honestly believe that this commandment is just as binding today as it ever was. I have talked with men who have said that it has been abrogated, but they have never been able to point to any place in the Bible where God repealed it. When Christ was on earth, He did nothing to set it aside; He freed it from the traces under which the scribes and Pharisees had put it, and gave it its true place. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." (Mark 2:27) [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]It is just as practicable and as necessary for men today as it ever was[/FONT][FONT=&quot]- in fact, more than ever, because we live in such an intense age.

The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. The fourth commandment begins with the word remember, showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote this law on the tables of stone at Sinai. How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?

I believe that the Sabbath question today is a vital one for the whole country. It is the burning question of the present time. If you give up the Sabbath the church goes; [/FONT]

And of course that statement -- the quote does not happen without at least some form of challenge to me.

Moody says he keeps it -- I say he bends it.

you ignore the fact that he is quoting the 4th commandment altogether.

Irrefutable.

Your appeal to ad hominem proves nothing except to identify the point where your argument runs aground.

Moody said this when quoting the 4th commandment - "[FONT=&quot]The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. The fourth commandment begins with the word remember, showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote this law on the tables of stone at Sinai. How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?

I believe that the Sabbath question today is a vital one for the whole country. It is the burning question of the present time. If you give up the Sabbath the church goes; "

[FONT=&quot]No amount of insulting me -- will change that fact of [FONT=&quot]history. This is [FONT=&quot]a difficult concept for some.[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
[/FONT]

1. Moody does not admit to "bending" anything. That is your accusation. It is ridiculous.
2. He lived in a different era and culture and you fail to make that distinction or take it into consideration.
3. Moody did not keep the Sabbath. He simply preached that he did.

 

[BobRyan]

So clearly some strong feelings either way on both sides of that issue exist.

I would argue that when these pro-SUNDAY scholars argue in favor of the TEN Commandments as does Moody they are right on a number of points - but they are wrong on one point.

Here is my very short summary of the pro-Sunday scholarship statements affirming the still-binding TEN Commandments.

Here is an example of claims made by the pro-Sunday sources - and 6 of the 7 are actually correct according to the Bible!.


Yes that is right - 6 of the 7 are actually common ground between Sabbath keeping and Sunday keeping Christians.


1. That the Sabbath Commandment is first given to mankind in Gen 2:1-3
2. That all mankind was obligated by the TEN commandments in the OT and to this very day.
3. That the seventh day as the Sabbath was Saturday the seventh day of the week from Gen 2:1-3 until NT times - including at the cross.
4. That the Ten Commandments are the moral Law of God
5. That the moral law of God is written on the heart under the New Covenant
6. that the Ten Commandments as the moral law of God are in no way opposed to grace and the Gospel.
7. That the Sabbath commandment can rightly be BENT by man-made-tradition to point to week-day-1 after the cross.

I agree with 6 out of 7 as listed above - and yet many who post against God's TEN commandments object to all of the points listed above. And sometimes they will even go on to complain that so many of the points above are in agreement with my position and opposed to the war-against-the-Ten-Commandments position.

===========================

And so I often use this as my signature line on other boards.

I am glad these Sunday sources all affirm the Ten Commandments for Christians.

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism.

And of course 7th day groups

Seventh-day Baptists
Seventh-day Adventists
(and 100's of others)

 

[BobRyan]

Some may think I am selecting out D.L. Moody as the only person to suggest this bending/edit/morphing of the Sabbath commandment "given in Eden" as the 7th day - to become week-day-1 after the cross.

But there are others - such a C.H.Spurgeon in his revised/edited version of the "Baptist Confession of Faith". --

Baptist Confession of Faith -- section 19

Notice how they both fit that 7 point summary already posted on page 1?

[FONT=&quot]Baptist Confession of Faith Section 19 link[/FONT]


Section 19:

C.H. Spurgeon's edition of the "Baptist Confession of Faith" -- [FONT=&quot]CH Spurgeon[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

“The Perpetuity of the Law of God”
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]Very great mistakes have been made about the law. Not long ago there were those about us who affirmed that the law is utterly abrogated and abolished, and they openly taught that believers were not bound to make the moral law the rule of their lives. What would have been sin in other men they counted to be no sin in themselves. From such Antinomianism as that may God deliver us. We are not under the law as the method of salvation, but we delight to see the law in the hand of Christ, and desire to obey the Lord in all things. Others have been met with who have taught that Jesus mitigated and softened down the law, and they have in effect said that the perfect law of God was too hard for imperfect beings, and therefore God has given us a milder and easier rule. These tread dangerously upon the verge of terrible error, although we believe that they are little aware of it.

Section 19 of the "Baptist Confession of Faith" .

Section 19
. The Law of God

• God gave to Adam a law of universal obedience which was written in his heart, and He gave him very specific instruction about not eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. By this Adam and all his descendants were bound to personal, total, exact, and perpetual obedience, being promised life upon the fulfilling of the law, and threatened with death upon the breach of it. At the same time Adam was endued with power and ability to keep it.

• The same law that was first written in the heart of man continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness after the Fall, and was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai in the TEN COMMANDMENTS, and written in two tables, the first four containing our duty towards God, and the other six, our duty to man.

• Besides this law, commonly called the moral law, God was pleased do give the people of Israel ceremonial laws containing several typical ordinances. These ordinances were partly about their worship, and in them Christ was prefigured along with His attributes and qualities, His actions, His sufferings and His benefits. These ordinances also gave instructions about different moral duties. All of these ceremonial laws were appointed only until the time of reformation, when Jesus Christ the true Messiah and the only lawgiver, Who was furnished with power from the Father for this end, cancelled them and took them away.

• To the people of Israel He also gave sundry judicial laws which expired when they ceased to be a nation. These are not binding on anyone now by virtue of their being part of the laws of that nation, but their general equity continue to be applicable in modern times.

The moral law ever binds to obedience everyone, justified people as well as others, and not only out of regard for the matter contained in it, but also out of respect for the authority of God the Creator, Who gave the law. Nor does Christ in the Gospel dissolve this law in any way, but He considerably strengthens our obligation to obey it __________________

Originally Posted by Baptist Confession of Faith

[FONT=&quot]Section 22.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]


[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Point 7[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]7. As it is the law of nature that in general a proportion of time, by God's appointment, should be set apart for the worship of God, so He has given in His Word a positive, moral and perpetual commandment, binding upon all men, in all ages to this effect. He has particularly appointed one day in seven for a Sabbath to be kept holy for Him. From the beginning of the world to the resurrection of Christ this was the last day of the week, and from the resurrection of Christ it was changed to the first day of the week and called the Lord's Day. This is to be continued until the end of the world as the Christian Sabbath, the observation of the last day of the week having been abolished.[/FONT]
​

__________________

And of course section 19 of the Westminster Confession of Faith agrees fully with that part of the "Baptist Confession of Faith".

 

[BobRyan]

yet Christ was not at all pleased with even the most minor edit/modify of one of the Ten Commandments -

[FONT=&quot]Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.


[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]When Christ speaks of one of the Ten Commandments He tells us that they are the “Word of God” – the “Commandment of God” and “Moses said”

[FONT=&quot]Notice that in thi[FONT=&quot]s case in Mark 7 the Jews [FONT=&quot]are "making stuff [FONT=&quot]up" in their [FONT=&quot]baptizing the cups and pots - regar[FONT=&quot]ding what you [FONT=&quot]"eat and [FONT=&quot]drink" - regar[FONT=&quot]ding food and drink - being con[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]taminated[/FONT] by sin - Christ in Mark 7 declares that to be [FONT=&quot]nonsense even before the cross.[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
[/FONT]

 

[Salty]

Just wondering what the next 5 titles you have selected for threads on Sabbath worship?

 

[BobRyan]

Some people have their own titles - hard to tell that they are even talking about the Sabbath from their titles - at least these kinds of threads have titles that tell you what the subject is to start with.

If the Bible is of interest on this subject - then the title is helpful.

 

[DHK]

Just wondering what the next 5 titles you have selected for threads on Sabbath worship?

What Bob can't do is to demonstrate on a personal level, how to keep the Sabbath in a Biblical way. I have asked him a number of times and am only answered with complete silence.
Thus my conclusion: Bob does not "keep the Sabbath." He only pretends.

 

[BobRyan]

Romans 8:5-9 says that the lost do not submit to the Law of God - neither indeed "can they".

But the saints by contrast (according to Romans 8 and Romans 6) need not walk in rebellion against the Law of God.

in Christ,

Bob