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Featured Sabbath breaking - becomes the mark of the Beast in the future

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by BobRyan, May 9, 2015.

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  1. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    My claim about those pro-Sunday sources --

    Also very well known to DHK - dozens of times so far.
     
    #181 BobRyan, May 16, 2015
  2. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Your charge here is quite ridiculous.
    No one "bends" the Law. They either keep the law or they don't.
    We know that they don't keep the Sabbath. In fact no one keeps the Law.
    Give it up Bob.
     
    #182 DHK, May 16, 2015
  3. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    you are ever-so-careful when contradicting them to not quote them as you tell us what to imagine that they said.

    Here is what they say -


    [FONT=&quot] From the beginning of the world to the resurrection of Christ this was the last day of the week, and from the resurrection of Christ it was changed to the first day of the week and called the Lord's Day. This is to be continued until the end of the world as the Christian Sabbath, the observation of the last day of the week having been abolished.[/FONT]


    And we SEE the quote below that they say this --

    The same law that was first written in the heart of man continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness after the Fall, and was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai in the TEN COMMANDMENTS, and written in two tables, the first four containing our duty towards God, and the other six, our duty to man.

     
    #183 BobRyan, May 16, 2015
  4. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Very informative. This neither confirms nor denies that they actually "kept" the Sabbath. I don't believe you actually know what is involved in keeping the Sabbath Bob.
    You really don't keep the Sabbath day holy as Moses commanded, do you?
     
    #184 DHK, May 16, 2015
  5. vooks

    vooks Active Member

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    Romans 14:5-6 (ESV)
    5 One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.

    I have always wondered if morality is a matter of personal conviction. Can we trust BobRyan to make up his mind on whether to fornicate or not to?:tonofbricks:
     
    #185 vooks, May 17, 2015
  6. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    Brother vooks, upon your mind is clearly seen that which is lusting, fleshly, carnal, and of basest material, for on many occasions now, and in almost every opportunity, in thread after thread, we see this same seed and root of thought from you, on matters of carnal physicality, and immoral sexual content, from the matter in which you, from a perverted sense of your own unsanctified heart, state that 'angels' mated with humans in Genesis 6, to the false notion of beasts and men siring offspring through abominable actions, to now, this accusational and gross imaginary matter of 'fornicat[ing]' to a Brother in Christ Jesus, assaulting the citadel of the minds of those purchased by the blood of the Son of God. Truly, as it is written, out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaketh. In all truth, your stream, brother vooks, is presently polluted, and you need the Branch to purify it, lest you are forever poisoned by such a corrupt well of unclean wormwood. God can heal that stream.
     
    #186 One Baptism, May 17, 2015
  7. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
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    Colossians 2:16-19
    12 While dead in your sins God who raised Christ from the dead forgave you all trespasses having quickened you together with Him. Nailing it to the cross and removing it altogether, Christ blotted out the damning law against us; and putting off and ruining the rulers and the authorities [of darkness 1:13], He publicly held them up to shame, triumphing over them in it.

    [If ye then be raised with Christ 3:1], THEN THEREFORE, don’t you let yourselves be judged and condemned by anyone (of the world 2:8, 20) in your eating and drinking or with regard to your eating and drinking of feast, whether of month’s or of Sabbaths’—all which shadows forth what soon must be, the BODY and SUBSTANCE OF CHRIST!

    Let no man not holding to the Head [but] puffed up by his fleshly mind, who conceitedly meddles in what he knows nothing about (the mystery which is Christ 1:28), with his pretentious humility and angelic worship beguile you (with enticing words 2:4) of your reward.

    Because holding to the Head nourishment being ministered, all the Body (of Christ’s Own 1:18) by joints and bands [of faith 2:12 Hosea 11:4; peace Ephesians 4:3; and charity Colossians 3:14], and knit together (in love 2:2), will grow with the growth of God.

    "Don't you let yourselves be judged by anyone in regard to your eating and drinking of Christ the Substance of Sabbaths' Feast either Lord's Supper of month's or Sabbaths' Feast, which are but the shadow of what imminently must come for you holding to the Head, the Body growing with the growth of God Christ being the Nourishment ministered."
     
    #187 Gerhard Ebersoehn, May 17, 2015
  8. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
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    This is a most precious post. Thank you
    GE
     
    #188 Gerhard Ebersoehn, May 17, 2015
  9. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    And that is why it is called "the moral law." Pagans know those things are wrong. They have that law written on their hearts.
    What is not written on their hearts is KEEP THE SABBATH.
    That is not part of the moral law. There is nothing immoral about not keeping the Sabbath. And that is what you fail to see.

    May God heal your heart.
     
    #189 DHK, May 17, 2015
  10. BrotherJoseph

    BrotherJoseph Well-Known Member

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    Brother DHK,

    Did Moody and the other Baptist Confessions (such as the London Confession) mean to convey just to come to church on Sunday or also to refrain from all work?

    God bless,

    Brother Joe
     
    #190 BrotherJoseph, May 17, 2015
  11. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    When I was younger I remember when all the stores were closed on Sundays. They were closed so that people could "honor Sunday" and go to church. It used to be that we did have a six-day work week, and Sunday was the day given off primarily for "worship." It was "a day of rest."
    But it was not the Jewish day of rest, as in to refrain "from all work." The women still cooked meals, and ordinary chores were still done. In most SDA churches this is still anathema.

    Moody would boycott those who did work on Sunday unless it were those working in absolute necessary occupations--police, firemen, hospitals, etc.
    He wouldn't eat in a restaurant because he would be keeping those employees from coming to church. Likewise he wouldn't buy a Sunday newspaper for the same reason.

    He was principled; not legalistic.
     
    #191 DHK, May 17, 2015
  12. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    I think DHK has also seen this -- post #66


    And so while it is true that Moody's Ten Commandment sermon includes this part on the 4th Commandment - that starts like this



    ================================ begin quote
    BY THE
    [FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]DWIGHT L. MOODY[/FONT][/FONT]​
    The Ten Commandments:
    Exodus 20:2-17     ​
    .
    The Fourth Commandment

    ​
    Remember the Sabbath Day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: for in six days the LORD made heaven and Earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath Day, and hallowed it.​

    [FONT=&quot]THERE HAS BEEN an awful letting-down in this country regarding the Sabbath during the last twenty-five years, and many a man has been shorn of spiritual power, like Samson, because he is not straight on this question. Can you say that you observe the Sabbath properly? You may be a professed Christian: are you obeying this commandment? Or do you neglect the house of God on the Sabbath day, and spend your time drinking and carousing in places of vice and crime, showing contempt for God and His law? Are you ready to step into the scales? Where were you last Sabbath? How did you spend it?

    I honestly believe that this commandment is just as binding today as it ever was. I have talked with men who have said that it has been abrogated, but they have never been able to point to any place in the Bible where God repealed it. When Christ was on earth, He did nothing to set it aside; He freed it from the traces under which the scribes and Pharisees had put it, and gave it its true place. [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]"The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." (Mark 2:27) [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]It is just as practicable and as necessary for men today as it ever was[/FONT][FONT=&quot]- in fact, more than ever, because we live in such an intense age.

    The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. The fourth commandment begins with the word remember, showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote this law on the tables of stone at Sinai.     How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?

    I believe that the Sabbath question today is a vital one for the whole country. It is the burning question of the present time. If you give up the Sabbath the church goes;

    [FONT=&quot]===================================================== end quote[/FONT]
    [/FONT]
    -in that quote above we see that D.L. Moody notices that some are opposed to the Sabbath Commandment - but notice how this sermon on the TEN Commandments also fits the summary of 7 points listed on this thread - on page 1??


    It is also true that D.L Moody's 4th commandment section ends with this --

    (also From post #66)

    Moody begins his statement - quoting the actual 4th Commandment and calling it the Sabbath. -- irrefutable.

    Moody's idea of bending it to point to week-day-1 for Christians after the cross - is clearly demonstrated in his text.

    ========================================= next - Baptist Confession of Faith --

    Originally Posted by Baptist Confession of Faith [FONT=&quot]Section 22.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]


    [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Point 7[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

    [/FONT][FONT=&quot]7. As it is the law of nature that in general a proportion of time, by God's appointment, should be set apart for the worship of God, so He has given in His Word a positive, moral and perpetual commandment, binding upon all men, in all ages to this effect. He has particularly appointed one day in seven for a Sabbath to be kept holy for Him. From the beginning of the world to the resurrection of Christ this was the last day of the week, and from the resurrection of Christ it was changed to the first day of the week and called the Lord's Day. This is to be continued until the end of the world as the Christian Sabbath, the observation of the last day of the week having been abolished.[/FONT]
     
    #192 BobRyan, May 17, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: May 17, 2015
  13. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    What is demonstrated is your own ignorance and your continual and perpetual posting of it.
    Moody did not keep the Sabbath, only his interpretation of the sabbath, which was simply "going to church on Sunday," and avoiding secular work.
    That is not keeping the Sabbath according to the Bible, not in any way, shape or form.
    One either keeps the Sabbath or he doesn't.
    You say he "bends" the sabbath.
    Did Moody ever say that? No.
    They you have falsely accused him. That is libel. It is a sin.
    Being a SDA you know the seriousness of breaking the law, a law that you have put yourself under. In the OT what are the consequences for libel?
     
    #193 DHK, May 17, 2015
  14. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    the mere post - the mere quote of Moody is sufficient to give rise to your ad hominem - because in his own words he condemns the model you use to attack the Bible Sabbath - so also does C.H Spurgeon as we both know.

    I don't agree with their bend/edit of the Sabbath that THEY say was given to mankind in Eden.

    Every time I argue that Moody is a pro-Sunday source making a case about the Ten Commandments and the Sabbath that is opposed to yours - as even HE says in his text you respond with

    HIS text says "the Sabbath was binding in Eden" -- HE is the one quoting the 4th commandment "as HIS text".

    This is irrefutable - all your ad hominem remarks change nothing.

    When I complain about his "bending/editing" the Commandment that HE is quoting we get this ...

    Moody says he keeps it -- I say he bends it.

    you ignore the fact that he is quoting the 4th commandment altogether.

    Irrefutable.

    Your appeal to ad hominem proves nothing except to identify the point where your argument runs aground.

    Moody said this when quoting the 4th commandment - "[FONT=&quot]The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. The fourth commandment begins with the word remember, showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote this law on the tables of stone at Sinai. How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?

    I believe that the Sabbath question today is a vital one for the whole country. It is the burning question of the present time. If you give up the Sabbath the church goes; "

    [FONT=&quot]No amount of insulting me -- will change that fact of [FONT=&quot]history. This is [FONT=&quot]a difficult concept for some.[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
    [/FONT]
    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #194 BobRyan, May 17, 2015
  15. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    1. Moody does not admit to "bending" anything. That is your accusation. It is ridiculous.
    2. He lived in a different era and culture and you fail to make that distinction or take it into consideration.
    3. Moody did not keep the Sabbath. He simply preached that he did.
    4. You declare you keep the Sabbath, but you don't.
    5. It is easy to say one thing and do another. You demonstrate that daily.
    6. If I preach a message on "Why a Christian should be faithful to the services of the church," Moody might entitle it, "Why you should keep the Sabbath,"--different era, different culture, different nomenclature.
    So? Did Moody keep the Sabbath? No. This is irrefutable.
    You mean me, pointing out your deceit and hypocrisy??
    So you put words in his mouth and falsely accuse him.
    It is a command. You either keep it or you don't. He says he does, but he doesn't. That is obvious.
    You say you keep the Sabbath but you don't keep it either. That also is obvious.
    I don't care if he quotes Shakespeare. What is irrefutable is that he did not keep the Sabbath no matter who or what he quoted or said.
    My appeal is to the Word of God. "Let God be true, but every man a liar."
    "All have sinned and come short of the glory of God."
    "And whosoever transgresseth the law is sin; for sin is a transgression of the law."
    "He that keepeth the whole law and yet offend in one point is guilty of all."

    I didn't know so-called insulting you changed the course of history. If I were that powerful I would attempt it more often. :) Your right though, it is a difficult concept to understand how insults change the course of history??

    That being said, in spite of what Moody wrote he no more kept the Sabbath than I go to church on a regular basis.
    You don't keep the Sabbath either. You and your cult just pretend. It is make-believe. Why don't you study the Scriptures and see what it actually means "to keep the Sabbath."
    Do the SDA's sacrifice lambs?
     
    #195 DHK, May 18, 2015
  16. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Your response is either irrational - or you are simply posting your views without having read the post to which you claim you are responding.

    Is there anyone on this board that can "explain" that response??

    I find your logic "illusive" - aside from your usual ad hominem of course.

    you admit that Moody claims to keep the Sabbath - the Sabbath given in Eden according to Moody, the Sabbath that he claims can be kept on week-day-1 even though we all know he does not claim that the Sabbath in Eden was a week-day-1 Sabbath.

    Moody is quoting the 4th Commandment from Exodus 20 ... irrefutable.
    Moody is condemning Sabbath breakers AND he condemns those who claim the Ten Commandments were downsized by 1 --- irrefutable.

    Your entire tirade is because your own idea of attacking the Sabbath is at war with Moody's way of doing it... and so you blame ... me.

    Moody is right to say that no commandment is to be removed from the TEN Commandments and that includes the Sabbath - and that the TEN Commandments are still binding on all the saints. And Moody is also wrong on the very point where you say the Sabbath commandment cannot be changed to point to week-day-1.

    You are right to say that the 4th commandment should not be bent - and you are wrong on the very point where Moody condemns your downsize-the-Commandments solution.

    (As I have said many times before)


    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #196 BobRyan, May 18, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: May 18, 2015
  17. vooks

    vooks Active Member

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    Do I need to repeat the four sabbath positions for you?
    1. Still in place- Sabbatarianism
    2. Changed by RCC to Sunday-believe Catholicism and also believe they 'gave' you the Bible
    3. Changed by God to Sunday by God since apostolic times- Traditional 'reformation'
    4. The true position; nailed to the cross. Sunday keeping if at all is out of mere expediency and tradition none of which violate the Christian liberty any more than my liberty with my shirt colors
     
    #197 vooks, May 18, 2015
  18. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Well Christ would differ with you in Mark 7:6-13 and Mark 2:27 and Is 66:23 and Is 56 -- and also D.L. Moody, the Baptist Confession of Faith, the Westminster Confession of Faith, Matthew Henry, et al would differ with you as well as Bible Sabbath keeping Christians - but you are welcomed to "your opinion".
     
    #198 BobRyan, May 18, 2015
  19. vooks

    vooks Active Member

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    BobRyan,
    I only need the scriptures on my side

    Romans 14:6 (KJV)
    He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it.

    How can not regarding a day be unto the Lord? Thank you Holy Spirit for not laying upon me the Feasts!
     
    #199 vooks, May 18, 2015
  20. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Moody did not keep the Sabbath, and neither do you.
    Tell me in detail Bob. How do you keep the Sabbath. Give us some details of what you do on the Sabbath day that fulfills the Biblical requirements of "keeping the Sabbath Day."
     
    #200 DHK, May 18, 2015
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