Sabbath breaking - becomes the mark of the Beast in the future

[BobRyan]

more about Col 2 ...

Col 2 is about making up a rule and judging others of being guilty of sin because they differ with you, even if that invented rule is related to a Bible command.

But Col 2 is not an attempt by Paul to delete the scriptures. Rather Paul condemns the idea of making stuff up that is not in scripture at all - where the only source/authority is "man".

Col 2:18 Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflatedwithout cause by his fleshly mind,
19 and not holding fast to the head, from whom the entire body, being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments, grows with a growth which is from God.


Col 2
20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using

after the commandments and doctrines of men? 23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh. (KJV)

Col 2
20 If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as,
21 “Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!” 22 (which all refer to things destined to perish with use)—in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men?
23 These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence.(NASB)

=========================

 

[BobRyan]

You are acting just like Lakeside. Both SDA and the RCC are cults .

That sort of "name calling fluff" is exactly how the RCC would treat your denomination in the dark ages. You have learned from them and when it is in your power to act their part .. you freely choose to do so.

Were we simply "not supposed to notice"??

in Christ,

Bob

 

[DHK]

That sort of "name calling fluff" is exactly how the RCC would treat your denomination in the dark ages. You have learned from them and when it is in your power to act their part .. you freely choose to do so.

Were we simply "not supposed to notice"??

in Christ,

Bob

I have many books on cults. Invariably the SDA's are included in each and every one of them. Mormons, J.W.'s SDA's, etc. You are offended? The SDA's have all the characteristics of a cult. You should know that by now. Most of your doctrines originate from a woman who claims to be a prophet (though a false prophetess). This one fact alone puts the SDA in the realm of a cult. The second characteristic is the book she wrote, "The Great Controversy," which much of the doctrine you believe comes from. Instead of the Bible you have a book written by a sinful woman to rely on.
Is it a cult?
Of course it is a cult.

And yes, we should all notice such obvious things.

 

[DHK]

more about Col 2 ...

Col 2 is about making up a rule and judging others of being guilty of sin because they differ with you, even if that invented rule is related to a Bible command.

Where did you get that from? Did you just make it up? Or did it come from EGW?

But Col 2 is not an attempt by Paul to delete the scriptures. Rather Paul condemns the idea of making stuff up that is not in scripture at all - where the only source/authority is "man".

Ellen G. White would replace Scripture with "The Great Controversy. No Baptist would do that. You seem to be making things up with no idea of what the book of Colossians is about.

Col 2:18 Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflated without cause by his fleshly mind,
19 and not holding fast to the head, from whom the entire body, being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments, grows with a growth which is from God.
--In these two verses Paul shows how the error of mysticism is wrong. Our headship is in Christ. Obviously, those who were entertaining the worship of angels and other spirits were delving into mysticism.
In verse 19 the mystic lost touch with reality; lost connection with "the Head." But the "Head" is God, who is over all and causes all things to grow.

Col 2
20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men?
23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh. (KJV)

Col 2
20 If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as,
21 “Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!” 22 (which all refer to things destined to perish with use)—in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men?
23 These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence.(NASB)

In verses 20-23 Paul addresses the error of asceticism. It is a position of rigorous self-denial. Thus the commands (or prohibitions)
Do not handle!
Do not taste!
Do not touch!

Disobeying such strict prohibitions brings guilt. It is a picture of the Law as well. The person that "picked up sticks" on the Sabbath, for example, was stoned. He knew he had done wrong.
However, Christ came to take away all human guilt.
This has already been stated:

Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Asceticism is living a life based on a man-made system of rules, often take out of context from God's Law, and based on human commands and teachings. This describes the SDA as well as many other cults.
In Colossians chapter two, Paul condemns the Gnosticism, the asceticism, the mysticism, and the legalism, much of which is found in the SDA and other cults.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Where did you get that from? Did you just make it up? Or did it come from EGW?

Ellen G. White would replace Scripture with "The Great Controversy. No Baptist would do that. You seem to be making things up with no idea of what the book of Colossians is about.

Col 2:18 Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflated without cause by his fleshly mind,
19 and not holding fast to the head, from whom the entire body, being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments, grows with a growth which is from God.
--In these two verses Paul shows how the error of mysticism is wrong. Our headship is in Christ. Obviously, those who were entertaining the worship of angels and other spirits were delving into mysticism.
In verse 19 the mystic lost touch with reality; lost connection with "the Head." But the "Head" is God, who is over all and causes all things to grow.

Col 2
20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men?
23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh. (KJV)

Col 2
20 If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as,
21 “Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!” 22 (which all refer to things destined to perish with use)—in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men?
23 These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence.(NASB)

In verses 20-23 Paul addresses the error of asceticism. It is a position of rigorous self-denial. Thus the commands (or prohibitions)
Do not handle!
Do not taste!
Do not touch!

Disobeying such strict prohibitions brings guilt. It is a picture of the Law as well. The person that "picked up sticks" on the Sabbath, for example, was stoned. He knew he had done wrong.
However, Christ came to take away all human guilt.
This has already been stated:

Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Asceticism is living a life based on a man-made system of rules, often take out of context from God's Law, and based on human commands and teachings. This describes the SDA as well as many other cults.
In Colossians chapter two, Paul condemns the Gnosticism, the asceticism, the mysticism, and the legalism, much of which is found in the SDA and other cults.

It is the wrong—actually the false interpretation which indiscriminately makes everything in Colossians 2:14 to 23 evil and the same.

But up to verse 19, Colossians 2 is one of the most positive, beautiful and encouraging hymns to Christ’s glory there is in the New Testament, in contrast with the world’s alternative for Christian freedom and enjoyment, identified and rejected by Paul in verses 20 to 23.

 

[DHK]

It is the wrong—actually the false interpretation which indiscriminately makes everything in Colossians 2:14 to 23 evil and the same.

But up to verse 19, Colossians 2 is one of the most positive, beautiful and encouraging hymns to Christ’s glory there is in the New Testament, in contrast with the world’s alternative for Christian freedom and enjoyment, identified and rejected by Paul in verses 20 to 23.

Yes, I agree. It is a beautiful passage which condemns those that keep the Sabbath, laboriously keep the law, are legalistic, etc. It condemns, not condones such lifestyles.

 

[vooks]

It is the wrong—actually the false interpretation which indiscriminately makes everything in Colossians 2:14 to 23 evil and the same.

But up to verse 19, Colossians 2 is one of the most positive, beautiful and encouraging hymns to Christ’s glory there is in the New Testament, in contrast with the world’s alternative for Christian freedom and enjoyment, identified and rejected by Paul in verses 20 to 23.

The lamest argument from Colossians 2:16 I have ever heard is from BobRyan.
When you study Adventism literature, they have been wrestling with this verse for the last 150 years , and out of these came various explanations.

BobRyan subscribes to the idea that Paul is concerned with 'man-made rules' for sabbath,new moon and annual feasts.

Question for BobRyan
1. What are shadows? Are they the 'man-made rules', or the actual feasts?
2. Does BobRyan keep the sabbath,new moons, and ALL annual Jewish feasts free of the 'man-made rules'?
3. If YES to #3, how does BobRyan keep the feast of Tabernacles?
4. If NO to #3, why does he not keep the ?

 

[BobRyan]

Col 2:18 Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflated without cause by his fleshly mind,
19 and not holding fast to the head, from whom the entire body, being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments, grows with a growth which is from God.
--In these two verses Paul shows how the error of mysticism is wrong. Our headship is in Christ. Obviously, those who were entertaining the worship of angels and other spirits were delving into mysticism.
In verse 19 the mystic lost touch with reality; lost connection with "the Head." But the "Head" is God, who is over all and causes all things to grow.

Col 2
20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men?
23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh. (KJV)

Col 2
20 If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as,
21 “Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!” 22 (which all refer to things destined to perish with use)—in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men?
23 These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence.(NASB)

in Col 2 - we do not find Paul condemning the Bible, no condemnation of eating, no condemnation of drinking - and no condemnation of God's Sabbath as we find it in the Ten Commandments.

Col 2 is about making up a rule and judging others of being guilty of sin because they differ with you, even if that invented rule is related to a Bible command.

But Col 2 is not an attempt by Paul to delete the scriptures. Rather Paul condemns the idea of making stuff up that is not in scripture at all - where the only source/authority is "man".

Col 2:18 Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflatedwithout cause by his fleshly mind,
19 and not holding fast to the head, from whom the entire body, being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments, grows with a growth which is from God.

Col 2
20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using

after the commandments and doctrines of men? 23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh. (KJV)

Col 2
20 If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as,
21 “Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!” 22 (which all refer to things destined to perish with use)—in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men?
23 These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence.(NASB)


=========================


In Mark 7:6-13 the Jews were simply "making stuff up" to get around one of the TEN Commandments - and of course Christ condemned them for that.


In Mark 2:19-22 they did it as well and Christ refuted their arguments.


Is it any wonder that in Col 2 the saints were contending with the same problem of man-made-doctrine and traditions -- "making stuff up"??

Not at all surprising.


Paul is focused on the problem of refuting the practice of 'making stuff up' -

 

[DHK]

in Col 2 - we do not find Paul condemning the Bible, no condemnation of eating, no condemnation of drinking - and no condemnation of God's Sabbath as we find it in the Ten Commandments.

No one, absolutely no one, said he is condemning the Bible except you.
That is a terrible accusation for you to make. Why would you say something so derogatory about Paul and the Bible??

What Paul condemned is the teaching of Judaizers, legalists, mystics, and Gnostics. If you fall into any one of those categories then Paul's condemnation falls upon you.

Col 2 is about making up a rule and judging others of being guilty of sin because they differ with you, even if that invented rule is related to a Bible command.

Now you are accusing Paul of making things up? Really? What did Paul make up? Paul addresses specific issues. It is clear you haven't studied this passage.

But Col 2 is not an attempt by Paul to delete the scriptures. Rather Paul condemns the idea of making stuff up that is not in scripture at all - where the only source/authority is "man".

You are acting delusional. Where does it say, infer, or refer to anyone that is "deleting scripture." Where do you get that from? Chapter and verse please?
Does he talk about little green men on Mars also? Clearly you are practicing eisigesis at its worst!

Col 2:18 Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflated without cause by his fleshly mind,
19 and not holding fast to the head, from whom the entire body, being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments, grows with a growth which is from God.

Col 2
20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men 23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh. (KJV)

Col 2
20 If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as,
21 “Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!” 22 (which all refer to things destined to perish with use)—in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men?
23 These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence.(NASB)


=========================

In Mark 7:6-13 the Jews were simply "making stuff up" to get around one of the TEN Commandments - and of course Christ condemned them for that.


In Mark 2:19-22 they did it as well and Christ refuted their arguments.


Is it any wonder that in Col 2 the saints were contending with the same problem of man-made-doctrine and traditions -- "making stuff up"??

Not at all surprising.


Paul is focused on the problem of refuting the practice of 'making stuff up' -

That is your opinion. But that is all it is--an opinion, unsubstantiated by the text. There is not one word of "making stuff up" in the entire chapter of Colossians 2. Go back and study your Bible instead of EGW.

 

[BobRyan]

in Col 2 - we do not find Paul condemning the Bible, no condemnation of eating, no condemnation of drinking - and no condemnation of God's Sabbath as we find it in the Ten Commandments.

Col 2 is about making up a rule and judging others of being guilty of sin because they differ with you, even if that invented rule is related to a Bible command.

But Col 2 is not an attempt by Paul to delete the scriptures. Rather Paul condemns the idea of making stuff up that is not in scripture at all - where the only source/authority is "man".

Col 2:18 Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflatedwithout cause by his fleshly mind,
19 and not holding fast to the head, from whom the entire body, being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments, grows with a growth which is from God.

Col 2
20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using

after the commandments and doctrines of men? 23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh. (KJV)

Col 2
20 If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as,
21 “Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!” 22 (which all refer to things destined to perish with use)—in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men?
23 These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence.(NASB)


=========================


In Mark 7:6-13 the Jews were simply "making stuff up" to get around one of the TEN Commandments - and of course Christ condemned them for that.


In Mark 2:19-22 they did it as well and Christ refuted their arguments.


Is it any wonder that in Col 2 the saints were contending with the same problem of man-made-doctrine and traditions -- "making stuff up"??

Not at all surprising.


Paul is focused on the problem of refuting the practice of 'making stuff up' -

So then Paul mentioned eating, drinking, feasts, Sabbaths - not to ban them but to stop the "making stuff up" practice.

No one, absolutely no one, said he is condemning the Bible except you.
That is a terrible accusation for you to make. Why would you say something so derogatory about Paul and the Bible??

Indeed you make factless accusations all the time. That is yet another one.

What Paul condemned is the teaching of Judaizers, legalists, mystics, and Gnostics.

Now you are accusing Paul of making things up? Really? What did Paul make up?

utter nonsense. Read the post - I never say Paul attempted to delete scripture -- rather I say Paul was NOT deleting scripture -- read the postThen we can discuss an actual point in the post.

in Col 2 - we do not find Paul condemning the Bible, no condemnation of eating, no condemnation of drinking - and no condemnation of God's Sabbath as we find it in the Ten Commandments.

To respond to that text with the utter nonsense 'you just accused paul of condeming scripture' is fluff at a level that is hard to fathom!!


in Christ,

Bob

 

[DHK]

So then Paul mentioned eating, drinking, feasts, Sabbaths - not to ban them but to stop the "making stuff up" practice.

Indeed you make factless accusations all the time. That is yet another one.

No. You are the only one on this board that said anything about "making stuff up." Why make the accusation? Did Paul say that. Only you said that. No poster made that accusation or used those words. It came from you alone. Prove me wrong.

What Paul condemned is the teaching of Judaizers, legalists, mystics, and Gnostics.

That is what I said. And that is what Paul was writing about.

utter nonsense. Read the post - I never say Paul attempted to delete scripture -- rather I say Paul was NOT deleting scripture -- read the postThen we can discuss an actual point in the post.

No one but you used the phrase "deleting scripture." No other poster even inferred that scripture had been deleted. You alone made that accusation. Go back and read the thread. Prove me wrong. Why would you even suggest such a thing?

To respond to that text with the utter nonsense 'you just accused paul of condeming scripture' is fluff at a level that is hard to fathom!!

I quoted your exact words and am appalled that you would even suggest such things. Why do you make things up?

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Yes, I agree. It is a beautiful passage which condemns those that keep the Sabbath, laboriously keep the law, are legalistic, etc. It condemns, not condones such lifestyles.

"Do NOT you let yourselves be <condemned> by ANY"

"For I—Paul—would that their hearts be <consoled> / comforted, being knit together in love unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding to the acknowledgement of the MYSTERY OF GOD AND OF THE FATHER AND OF CHRIST . . . CHRIST THE SUBSTANCE OF SABBATHS’ FEAST . . . . LET NO man beguile you of your REWARD . . . CHRIST THE HEAD—CHRIST THE SUBSTANCE—CHRIST THE NOURISHMENT ministered . . . CHRIST . . . in your eating and drinking OF SABBATHS’ FEAST OF CHRIST.”

DHK:- <<<a passage which condemns those that keep the Sabbath,>>>

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Yes, I agree. It is a beautiful passage which condemns those that keep the Sabbath, laboriously keep the law, are legalistic, etc. It condemns, not condones such lifestyles.

Colossians 2:16-19
12 While dead in your sins God who raised Christ from the dead forgave you all trespasses having quickened you together with Him. Nailing it to the cross and removing it altogether, Christ blotted out the damning law against us; and putting off and ruining the rulers and the authorities [of darkness 1:13], He publicly held them up to shame, triumphing over them in it. [If ye then be raised with Christ 3:1], THEN THEREFORE, don’t you let yourselves be judged and condemned by anyone (of the world 2:8, 20) in your eating and drinking or with regard to your eating and drinking of feast, whether of month’s or of Sabbaths’—all which shadows forth what soon must be, the BODY and SUBSTANCE OF CHRIST!
Let no man not holding to the Head [but] puffed up by his fleshly mind, who conceitedly meddles in what he knows nothing about (the mystery which is Christ 1:28), with his pretentious humility and angelic worship beguile you (with enticing words 2:4) of your reward.
Because holding to the Head nourishment being ministered, all the Body (of Christ’s Own 1:18) by joints and bands [of faith 2:12 Hosea 11:4; peace Ephesians 4:3; and charity Colossians 3:14], and knit together (in love 2:2), will grow with the growth of God.

"Don't you let yourselves be judged by anyone in regard to your eating and drinking of Christ the Substance of Sabbaths' Feast either Lord's Supper of month's or Sabbaths' Feast, which are but the shadow of what imminently must come for you holding to the Head, the Body growing with the growth of God Christ being the Nourishment ministered."

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

DHK would replace Colossians 12-19 with verses 20-23 and has, replaced verses 20-23 with verses 12-19.

That is <<The Great Controversy>> NOW and HERE!.

All Baptists would do that.

In Colossians 2:18, “Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflated without cause by his fleshly mind”>>, Paul is saying what he is saying, showing :

“18 Let no man not holding to the Head [but] puffed up by his fleshly mind, who conceitedly meddles in what he knows nothing about (the mystery which is Christ 1:28), with his pretentious humility and angelic worship beguile you (with enticing words 2:4) of your reward which is Christ 19 and not holding fast to The Head Christ, from whom the entire body, being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments, grows with a growth which is from God.”

Because <<<Our headship is in Christ. Obviously, those who were entertaining the worship of angels and other spirits were THOSE who “judged and condemned you—in your eating and drinking of SABBATH’S FEAST OF CHRIST”.

That, is the content and the context of Paul’s words in Paul’s own Letter to Colossian GENTILE Christians worshipping God in Christ, through Christ in verses 12 to 19.

In verse 20, Paul contrasts the “SABBATHS’ FEAST OF CHRIST” Assemblies with “the WORLD” and “kingdom of DARKNESS”
“20 Wherefore while you have died with Christ from the rudiments of the world ---VERSES 12 TO 19---, why, as though living in the world, do you let yourselves be subjected to (and be judged and condemned like in verse 16) by (anyone’s / the world’s) decrees (against you like in verse 14), as
21 Touch not; taste not; handle not (in contrast with your free eating and drinking of Christ);
22 Which all are to perish with the using after the COMMANDMENTS AND DOCTRINES OF MEN?
23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.

 

[BobRyan]

Originally Posted by BobRyan
in Col 2 - we do not find Paul condemning the Bible, no condemnation of eating, no condemnation of drinking - and no condemnation of God's Sabbath as we find it in the Ten Commandments.

Col 2 is about making up a rule and judging others of being guilty of sin because they differ with you, even if that invented rule is related to a Bible command.

But Col 2 is not an attempt by Paul to delete the scriptures. Rather Paul condemns the idea of making stuff up that is not in scripture at all - where the only source/authority is "man".

Col 2:18 Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflatedwithout cause by his fleshly mind,
19 and not holding fast to the head, from whom the entire body, being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments, grows with a growth which is from God.

Col 2
20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using

after the commandments and doctrines of men? 23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh. (KJV)

Col 2
20 If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as,
21 “Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!” 22 (which all refer to things destined to perish with use)—in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men?
23 These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence.(NASB)


=========================


In Mark 7:6-13 the Jews were simply "making stuff up" to get around one of the TEN Commandments - and of course Christ condemned them for that.


In Mark 2:19-22 they did it as well and Christ refuted their arguments.


Is it any wonder that in Col 2 the saints were contending with the same problem of man-made-doctrine and traditions -- "making stuff up"??

Not at all surprising.


Paul is focused on the problem of refuting the practice of 'making stuff up' -

Quote:

So then Paul mentioned eating, drinking, feasts, Sabbaths - not to ban them but to stop the "making stuff up" practice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHK

No one, absolutely no one, said he is condemning the Bible except you.
That is a terrible accusation for you to make. Why would you say something so derogatory about Paul and the Bible??

Indeed you make factless accusations all the time. That is yet another one.

What Paul condemned is the teaching of Judaizers, legalists, mystics, and Gnostics.

Quote:
Now you are accusing Paul of making things up? Really? What did Paul make up?

utter nonsense. Read the post - I never say Paul attempted to delete scripture -- rather I say Paul was NOT deleting scripture -- read the postThen we can discuss an actual point in the post.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BobRyan
in Col 2 - we do not find Paul condemning the Bible, no condemnation of eating, no condemnation of drinking - and no condemnation of God's Sabbath as we find it in the Ten Commandments.

To respond to that text with the utter nonsense 'you just accused paul of condeming scripture' is fluff at a level that is hard to fathom!!

No. You are the only one on this board that said anything about "making stuff up."

Details "in the text" that you wish to ignore -- still matter.

So I use sola-scriptura while you use sola-rant.


Col 2
20 If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as,
21 “Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!” 22 (which all refer to things destined to perish with use)—in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men?
23 These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence.(NASB)

Why make the accusation? Did Paul say that.

Yes Paul said --

21 “Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!” 22 (which all refer to things destined to perish with use)—in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men?
23 These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence.(NASB)

Paul said -- Col 2:18 Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflatedwithout cause by his fleshly mind,


your failed response of sola-rant - to the Bible detail you wish to ignore is more transparently obvious than you seem to imagine to yourself.

Why keep doing that?

Were we simply "not supposed to notice"??

We are not drinking that koolaide of "pay not attention to that Bible detail - just listen to me rant".

You know that - and so do I.

Prove me wrong.

As I said your failed method is more transparent to all - than you have apparently imagined to yourself.

No one but you used the phrase "deleting scripture."

Indeed - I said "Paul is NOT deleting scripture"

Your sola-rant responds to bible detail with

No other poster even inferred that scripture had been deleted. You alone made that accusation. Go back and read the thread. Prove me wrong. Why would you even suggest such a thing?

I quoted your exact words and am appalled that you would even suggest such things. Why do you make things up?

How "sad" that you are appalled that I would suggest that Paul is not deleting scripture.

But this is precisely where your practice of sola-rant gets you in such cases.


Bob said: in Col 2 - we do not find Paul condemning the Bible, no condemnation of eating, no condemnation of drinking - and no condemnation of God's Sabbath as we find it in the Ten Commandments.

DHK said : "I quoted your exact words and am appalled that you would even suggest such things"



very sad DHK.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[targus]

Oh dear... Bob Ryan seems to have gotten lost in his maze of cut and paste duplication.

 

[DHK]

Originally Posted by BobRyan in Col 2 - we do not find Paul condemning the Bible, no condemnation of eating, no condemnation of drinking - and no condemnation of God's Sabbath as we find it in the Ten Commandments.

Exactly right Bob. No one made that accusation. So what shall I conclude?
Are you answering your own accusation. You are the only one that has used this phrase: "condemning the Bible." No one else has used it.
So have you condemned the Bible? It seems like it. Are you then refuting your own statement? Possibly. You are the only one that has used this phrase. Understand that! There is no ghost on the board that has posted "Paul has condemned the Bible." You are simply refuting your own imagination.

But Col 2 is not an attempt by Paul to delete the scriptures. Rather Paul condemns the idea of making stuff up that is not in scripture at all - where the only source/authority is "man".

Another baseless accusation. Where did anyone say that "Paul was deleting Scriptures." No one on the board did. The scriptures don't give that indication. You are simply refuting yourself. You are the only one that has used that phrase "attempt by Paul to delete the scriptures."
No one but you has used that phrase.
You are refuting your own imagination. You are making things up. It is ridiculous.

In Mark 7:6-13 the Jews were simply "making stuff up" to get around one of the TEN Commandments - and of course Christ condemned them for that.

Again, your words--"making stuff up." No one else used those words. They are yours. Who else said anything about anyone "making things up."
Why are you making these accusations and silly eisigesis.

In Mark 2:19-22 they did it as well and Christ refuted their arguments.

Is it any wonder that in Col 2 the saints were contending with the same problem of man-made-doctrine and traditions -- "making stuff up"??

Who is "making stuff up" but you. No one has used this expression but you.

Not at all surprising.

Paul is focused on the problem of refuting the practice of 'making stuff up' -

Paul never made anything up, or had to refute anything made up. You are the one "making stuff up."
What you said is near to blasphemous. Paul spoke the inspired Word of God, what was given to Him by the Holy Spirit of God. You say "he is making stuff up. Shame!

Indeed you make factless accusations all the time. That is yet another one.

I am not the one "making stuff up.

utter nonsense. Read the post - I never say Paul attempted to delete scripture -- rather I say Paul was NOT deleting scripture -- read the postThen we can discuss an actual point in the post.

You are the only one that has used that expression "deleting scriptures." What are we supposed to believe Bob? Do you refute your own premise; your own imagination? No one else used those words; and certainly not the scripture.

in Col 2 - we do not find Paul condemning the Bible, no condemnation of eating, no condemnation of drinking - and no condemnation of God's Sabbath as we find it in the Ten Commandments.

Paul has never condemned the Bible. You, however, seem to have made that accusation.
He does condemn those who laboriously and legalistically keep the Sabbath; keep the Law. It is the sin of legalism. The law was nailed to the cross.

To respond to that text with the utter nonsense 'you just accused paul of condeming scripture' is fluff at a level that is hard to fathom!!

You are the only one who has used those words. What else is one to believe. I am only quoting you.

So I use sola-scriptura while you use sola-rant.

Quoting Moody, Spurgeon, and various Cof's is not sola scripture. Look up what the term means.

Col 2
20 If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as,
21 “Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!” 22 (which all refer to things destined to perish with use)—in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men?
23 These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence.(NASB)

Paul said --Col 2 18 Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflated without cause by his fleshly mind,

your failed response of sola-rant - to the Bible detail you wish to ignore is more transparently obvious than you seem to imagine to yourself.

Why keep doing that?

Were we simply "not supposed to notice"??

We are not drinking that koolaide of "pay not attention to that Bible detail - just listen to me rant".

You know that - and so do I.

As I said your failed method is more transparent to all - than you have apparently imagined to yourself.

Indeed - I said "Paul is NOT deleting scripture"

Your sola-rant responds to bible detail with

How "sad" that you are appalled that I would suggest that Paul is not deleting scripture.

But this is precisely where your practice of sola-rant gets you in such cases.

Bob said: in Col 2 - we do not find Paul condemning the Bible, no condemnation of eating, no condemnation of drinking - and no condemnation of God's Sabbath as we find it in the Ten Commandments.

DHK said : "I quoted your exact words and am appalled that you would even suggest such things"

Yes, you referred to:
Paul deleting Scripture,
Paul condemning the Bible.
You referred to these because no one else on the board has;
because Paul or any other scripture has.
You are the only one that has used such phrases. It is baffling. Do you refute what is in your imagination. No one, but no one, made any such accusation that Paul was either deleting scripture or condemning the Bible. So why did you feel the need to refute it, unless you made it up in the first place??