Sabbath breaking - becomes the mark of the Beast in the future

[DHK]

So also the TEN Commandments - Ex 20:1.
So also the NEW Covenant Jer 31:31-33, Hebrews 8.

The Ten Commandments were given to Israel and only to Israel. That is why you find them in Exodus, Deuteronomy, etc., in the OT.
Everyone of the Ten Commandments are repeated in the NT except one, and that is to "Keep the Sabbath." The reason: This one command is given to Israel alone. Thus there is no command in the NT for the Gentile believer to keep the Sabbath.

If the Ten Commandments do not apply to Christians - it is news to the "Baptist Confession of Faith" and also the "Westminster Confession of Faith".

Your misunse of those documents has been well-noted.

If the New Covenant does not apply to Christians - it is news to Paul.

Paul never taught to keep the Sabbath; in fact he taught the opposite. He taught to avoid keeping the sabbath, for the sabbath wasn't real, but a shadow of that which was real, that is Jesus Christ who is our Sabbath.
One day is as holy as another, and every day is alike.

The rule that whatever the Jews had been given cannot also be given to Christians - fails the test of scriptures.

The Jews were given 613 commands. Do you keep them all? Yes or no?

Is 56 proves that even in the OT the Sabbath is not just for Jews -

Isaiah 56 is just that--Isaiah 56. It is not the NT. And since SDA prophecy is miles apart from mine I refuse to discuss it with you. You must find the command to keep the Sabbath in the NT. Isaiah was written to Israel.

You made the argument from Ex 31 against the Sabbath and now you want to ignore the OT telling us that you are wrong - that the Sabbath is for gentiles even in the OT.

And in Is 66:23 it is for all mankind in all of eternity future.

All of Isaiah was written to Israel, as was Exodus. One doesn't find NT believers in the OT.

There is no command to keep the Sabbath for the NT believer. You won't find such a command in the NT.

 

[DHK]

Until you realize that the "LAW" defines sin according to Romans 3:19-22 and 1 John 3:4.

James 2 - he who breaks one -- breaks them all.

The Sabbath is never mentioned. The Sabbath was given only to Israel.
In Rom.2:14,15 the law written on the hearts of every man does not include the Sabbath. It is the moral law of God, but does not include the Sabbath. There is no Sabbath in the moral law of God.

 

[BrotherJoseph]

The Sabbath is never mentioned. .

Brother Bob, don't you draw anything from the one time that the Sabbath is mentioned in any of the epistles it is mentioned in the negative about letting no man judge you regarding it, yet there are no commands or a single verse in the entire New Testament that mention a believer should observe the Sabbath? All the other 10 commandments are moral law, but the Sabbath is now. It was only a shadow that has now been fulfilled through Christ.

God bless,

Brother Joe

 

[BobRyan]

Brother Bob, don't you draw anything from the one time that the Sabbath is mentioned in any of the epistles it is mentioned in the negative about letting no man judge you regarding it, yet there are no commands or a single verse in the entire New Testament that mention a believer should observe the Sabbath?

1. In col 2 it is NOT eating, drinking and Lev 23 sabbaths that are "in the negative" but rather the act of judging others and making stuff up that is mentioned in the negative. This is where I often say "details matter".
2. There is not one instance in the NT where the writer condemns the weekly Sabbath - rather there is only the act of those who 'make stuff up' in the NT trying to "add their own rules" to the Sabbath -- whenever something negative surfaces.
3. There is NO instance of the Sabbath being called 'week day 7' in the New Testament -- and there is NO instance of "week-day-1" being given any title of honor in the NT like "the LORD's Day" for example.
4. There are Sabbath after Sabbath - gatherings of Christians, Gentiles and Jews to hear gospel preaching in Acts 13, Acts 17, Acts 18 but not ONE such example of a sequence like that for "week day 1" in the NT.
5. The Sabbath commandment is quoted several times in the NT but not ONE quote even in part -- of the 3rd commandment. Proving that not-quoting does not mean "deleting".
6. NT writers consistently demand that the Saints -- "KEEP the Commandments of God" 1Cor 7:19, Rev 14:12, 1John 5:1-4
7. NT statement by Christ condemning the act of even slightly modifying even ONE of the Ten Commandments Mark 7:6-13

All the other 10 commandments are moral law, but the Sabbath is now.

Interesting opinion not shared by Chuck Swindoll, Any Stanley, the "Baptist Confession of Faith", the "Westminster Confession of Faith", R.C.Sproul, C.H. Spurgeon, Matthew Henry ... not shared by the majority of even pro-SUNDAY scholars so not just pro-Bible Sabbath groups opposing that view.

Only the annual sabbaths of Lev 23 are based on animal sacrifice "shadows" of the cross.

When a Bible detail is so glaringly obvious that BOTH sides agree to it - you have something worth studying.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

The Sabbath is never mentioned. The Sabbath was given only to Israel.

The Sabbath is mentioned in the Law - it is the 4th commandment.

"what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19

And Christ said that the Ten Commandments are the "Commandments of God" Mark 7:6-13.

In Rom.2:14,15 the law written on the hearts of every man does not include the Sabbath.

That is a mere opinion -- not shared by even the majority of pro-SUNDAY scholarship - much less the Bible-Sabbath scholars.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

As for Sabbath given to Israel:

So also the TEN Commandments - Ex 20:1.
So also the NEW Covenant Jer 31:31-33, Hebrews 8.

If the Ten Commandments do not apply to Christians - it is news to the "Baptist Confession of Faith" and also the "Westminster Confession of Faith".

If the New Covenant does not apply to Christians - it is news to Paul.

The rule that whatever the Jews had been given cannot also be given to Christians - fails the test of scriptures.

As for "ignore what you find in scripture if it is in the OT"

Is 56 proves that even in the OT the Sabbath is not just for Jews - but also for Gentile explicitly -- the very thing you want to say the OT does not support.

You made the argument from Ex 31 against the Sabbath and now you want to ignore the OT telling us that you are wrong - that the Sabbath is for gentiles even in the OT.

And in Is 66:23 it is for all mankind in all of eternity future.

The Ten Commandments were given to Israel and only to Israel.

Already disproven in the prior post above.

That is why you find them in Exodus, Deuteronomy, etc., in the OT.

So also with the TEN Commandments - and few Christians today are arguing for taking God's name in vain simply because it is never quoted in the NT and was given "to israel" in Ex 20:1

And of course Heb 4:9 "the REMAINS a Sabbath rest for the people of God"
Is 66:23 "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to Worship"
Is 56:1-10 -- even Gentiles in the OT

Everyone of the Ten Commandments are repeated in the NT except one

That is true -the 3rd commandment is not repeated all others are - but "do not take God's name in vain" is never quoted from in the NT not even once.

Proves that the made-up rule you are invoking is rejected by all of Christianity under "normal" conditions.

Already pointed out half a dozen times or more.

Your misunse of those documents has been well-noted.

Your false-accusation noted - when will the day come when you will provide some fact for it that actually stands up to review?? So long you have had to work on that false accusation and never found a single fact to support it. I would be embarrassed by now if I were you or else come up with "something" that sticks.

Paul never taught to keep the Sabbath;

until you read the writings of Paul and his own statement under oath before gentile courts - and of course his "Sabbath after Sabbath" gospel sermons to gentiles in Acts 13, Acts 17, Acts 18

He taught to avoid keeping the sabbath,

Just not in real life. You provide no quote for it - because you have none.

One day is as holy as another, and every day is alike.

Rom 14 "one man observes one day above another while another man observes them all ... he who observes the day observes it to the LORD"

The argument is for the Lev 23 annual holy days.

The Jews were given 613 commands. Do you keep them all? Yes or no?

The NT has 1050 commands - what is your limit on God??

Isaiah 56 is just that--Isaiah 56. It is not the NT. And since SDA prophecy is miles apart from mine I refuse to discuss it with you. You must find the command to keep the Sabbath in the NT.

The third commandment debunks your made-up rule. And most other Christians have 66 books in their Bibles.

"The Sabbath was MADE for mankind" Mark 2:27

"There REMAINS therefore a SABBATH rest for the people of God" Heb 4:9

The saints "KEEP the Commandments of God" Rev 14:12, 1John 5:1-4, 1Cor 7:19

I will have to go with the Bible on this point.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Yeshua1]

Rebel makes this observation - and gets the following answer in a post on another thread.

I think it deserves some focused attention -- it deals with the question of whether Sabbath breaking matters today.

After all we can ALL agree that if the TEN commandments are dead
- or if the Sabbath commandment can be bent to point to week-day-1,
- or if the Ten Commandments have been downsized to just NINE

then surely this issue of 7th day Sabbath breaking cannot become the mark of the Beast in the future that Rev 13 speaks of.


===========================================



Thank you for your post - your views are always welcome and never taken as ad hominem but always as sincere Christian observation.

We don't say Sunday observance is the mark of the beast rather we say it will be in the future.

If our prediction for the future does not pan out then we were wrong - but how can you present proof that the future does not include this fact - before that time?

...
in Christ,

Bob

You cannot wish away that false prophecy though, as the Bible teaches to us that the mark of the beast is reserves for JUST those unsaved of Christ, and who choose to follow and worship the Antichrist as their Messiah, NOT Sunday worship!

IF going to church on sunday EVER became that, then the blood of jesus has no power to cleanse from all sins then, right?

 

[Darrell C]

I think when Vooks is not trying to remind us all of my Sig line - he is trying to remind us all to go to page one and read post #4 -- again.

Bob, isn't that name calling?




God bless.

 

[vooks]

1. In col 2 it is NOT eating, drinking and Lev 23 sabbaths that are "in the negative" but rather the act of judging others and making stuff up that is mentioned in the negative. This is where I often say "details matter".

So, do you observe Tabernacles free of others judging you?

2. There is not one instance in the NT where the writer condemns the weekly Sabbath - rather there is only the act of those who 'make stuff up' in the NT trying to "add their own rules" to the Sabbath -- whenever something negative surfaces.

Is there a single instance where NT condemns Passover? Paul kept it severally

3. There is NO instance of the Sabbath being called 'week day 7' in the New Testament -- and there is NO instance of "week-day-1" being given any title of honor in the NT like "the LORD's Day" for example.

That's irrelevant.

4. There are Sabbath after Sabbath - gatherings of Christians, Gentiles and Jews to hear gospel preaching in Acts 13, Acts 17, Acts 18 but not ONE such example of a sequence like that for "week day 1" in the NT.

There are apostles keeping Jewish feasts like Passover, taking Nazirite vows...

5. The Sabbath commandment is quoted several times in the NT but not ONE quote even in part -- of the 3rd commandment. Proving that not-quoting does not mean "deleting".

Only two-bit marine invertebrates can't tell blasphemy from the Third commandment

6. NT writers consistently demand that the Saints -- "KEEP the Commandments of God" 1Cor 7:19, Rev 14:12, 1John 5:1-4

Yes, the 613 of them

7. NT statement by Christ condemning the act of even slightly modifying even ONE of the Ten Commandments Mark 7:6-13

You are a serial liar just like your godess. Christ condemns modifying ANY of the 613 laws and not just the Ten

in Ellen White

Bob

Pathetic

 

[Darrell C]

So, do you observe Tabernacles free of others judging you?

Is there a single instance where NT condemns Passover? Paul kept it severally

That's irrelevant.

There are apostles keeping Jewish feasts like Passover, taking Nazirite vows...

Only two-bit marine invertebrates can't tell blasphemy from the Third commandment

Yes, the 613 of them

You are a serial liar just like your godess. Christ condemns modifying ANY of the 613 laws and not just the Ten

Pathetic

There is really no need to be calling people liars and editing their posts.

I would caution you in continuing in this method of debate, which is not debate.

Keep it doctrinal, my friend. You will never convince your antagonist or those reading that you are representing Christ in dialogue with this kind of display.


God bless.

 

[DHK]

The Sabbath is mentioned in the Law - it is the 4th commandment.

It is not mentioned in the NT as a command to keep. That is what is important.

"what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19

In the broader context of marriage. This is a foolish verse to use.

And Christ said that the Ten Commandments are the "Commandments of God" Mark 7:6-13.

Another foolish verse use to use as Jesus was condemning the Pharisees in an OT dispensation before the cross who perverted the Law which they supposedly lived by but had turned the Law into commandments of men.
--But we are not under the Law, rather grace.

That is a mere opinion -- not shared by even the majority of pro-SUNDAY scholarship - much less the Bible-Sabbath scholars.

It is not opinion, but fact, that there is no command anywhere in the NT for a believer to keep the Sabbath.
The sabbath is not in the moral law of God.

This is easily demonstrated by going to any foreign culture where the gospel has never been heard. Remember that I am a missionary.
The moral law is written on their hearts and their conscience also bears witness to it.
If they commit murder, lie, commit adultery, etc. their conscience tells them that they have done wrong. If they commit any one of the nine commandments they know automatically that something is wrong--they have sinned.
However, if they have broken the Sabbath, there is no knowledge of any sin. It is not part of the moral law and no sin has taken place. There is nothing moral or amoral about a gentile keeping or not keeping the Sabbath. It is not written on the hearts of men.

 

[DHK]

So also with the TEN Commandments - and few Christians today are arguing for taking God's name in vain simply because it is never quoted in the NT and was given "to israel" in Ex 20:1

But it is in the NT, just not quoted word for word. The NT says quite a bit about how we should speak and use our words, or what comes out of mouths--perhaps more so than the OT.

And of course Heb 4:9 "the REMAINS a Sabbath rest for the people of God"
Is 66:23 "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to Worship"
Is 56:1-10 -- even Gentiles in the OT

All of these scriptures are totally irrelevant.
Heb.4:9 speaks of a Person not a day. Study to show yourself approved unto God.
The others are OT scriptures, not NT scriptures and they don't give commands for NT believers to keep the Sabbath.

That is true -the 3rd commandment is not repeated all others are - but "do not take God's name in vain" is never quoted from in the NT not even once.

I have already demonstrated that that is not true.

Proves that the made-up rule you are invoking is rejected by all of Christianity under "normal" conditions.

Already pointed out half a dozen times or more.

And a dozen or more times you have failed. I have not made-up anything; rather you fail to study your Bible.

Your false-accusation noted - when will the day come when you will provide some fact for it that actually stands up to review?? So long you have had to work on that false accusation and never found a single fact to support it. I would be embarrassed by now if I were you or else come up with "something" that sticks.

I will state it again: "Your misuse of those documents is well documented."
They are Baptistic in nature. They don't believe in the same Sabbath as you do. They don't define Sabbath as you do. They all with one accord condemn the beliefs of the SDA, and therefore your use of them is deceitful and hypocritical.

until you read the writings of Paul and his own statement under oath before gentile courts - and of course his "Sabbath after Sabbath" gospel sermons to gentiles in Acts 13, Acts 17, Acts 18

Paul, as his habit was, went to the Jew first and also to the Greeks. The Jews gathered in their synagogues as was their custom, on the Sabbath.
Now, if you evangelize after the manner of Paul do you enter into the synagogues of the Jews on the sabbath days to preach the gospel to the Jews. That was the only reason he did. Otherwise, as Acts 20:7 indicates, he gathered with believers on the first day of the week, being Sunday.
How many synagogues have you been in lately Bob?

Just not in real life. You provide no quote for it - because you have none.

Colossians 2:4 And this I say, lest any man should beguile you with enticing words.
Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Colossians 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
Colossians 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Colossians 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Verse 16
(CEV) Don't let anyone tell you what you must eat or drink. Don't let them say that you must celebrate the New Moon festival, the Sabbath, or any other festival.
(Geneva) Let no man therefore condemne you in meate and drinke, or in respect of an holy day, or of the newe moone, or of the Sabbath dayes,
--Paul, inasmuch condemned those who commanded believers to keep the Sabbath. The Sabbath was fulfilled in Christ, for the Sabbath was but a shadow of Christ, the reality.

Rom 14 "one man observes one day above another while another man observes them all ... he who observes the day observes it to the LORD"

The argument is for the Lev 23 annual holy days.

(CEV) Some of the Lord's followers think one day is more important than another. Others think all days are the same. But each of you should make up your own mind.
--That is not what is sounds like.
Concerning verse 6 Robertson says:

Regardeth (phronei). "Thinks of," "esteems," "observes," "puts his mind on" (from phrên, mind). The Textus Receptus has also "he that regardeth not," but it is not genuine. Unto the Lord (kuriôi). Dative case. So as to tôi theôi (unto God). He eats unto the Lord, he eats not unto the Lord. Paul's principle of freedom in non-essentials is most important. The Jewish Christians still observed the Seventh day (the Sabbath). The Gentile Christians were observing the first day of the week in honour of Christ's Resurrection on that day. Paul pleads for liberty.

The NT has 1050 commands - what is your limit on God??

That in some ways it is harder to live under grace than under the law, but not impossible. The fact remains: We are not under the Law--so why put yourself there?

The third commandment debunks your made-up rule. And most other Christians have 66 books in their Bibles.

You are deceived.

"The Sabbath was MADE for mankind" Mark 2:27[/quote]
There is no command there, and if you knew the real meaning of this verse it goes against the keeping of the Sabbath not for it.

"There REMAINS therefore a SABBATH rest for the people of God" Heb 4:9

Again the meaning of the verse doesn't phase you. It doesn't work in your favor. It is speaking of Christ, not a day.

The saints "KEEP the Commandments of God" Rev 14:12, 1John 5:1-4, 1Cor 7:19

There is no command here to keep the Sabbath.

I will have to go with the Bible on this point.

You are working against the Bible, key word "working," as in putting your self under the law and not under grace.

 

[BrotherJoseph]

I will state it again: "Your misuse of those documents is well documented."
They are Baptistic in nature. They don't believe in the same Sabbath as you do. They don't define Sabbath as you do. They all with one accord condemn the beliefs of the SDA, and therefore your use of them is deceitful and hypocritical.

Brother DHK,

I haven't followed this thread from the beginning. What documents do you feel Brother Bob is misusing and how, and what do you feel is the correct interpretation of these documents? If you have some time quotes and elaboration would help.

God bless,

Brother Joe

 

[Yeshua1]

Brother DHK,

I haven't followed this thread from the beginning. What documents do you feel Brother Bob is misusing and how, and what do you feel is the correct interpretation of these documents? If you have some time quotes and elaboration would help.

God bless,

Brother Joe

he loves to keep using the Confessipns of the faith, and to quote Baptists and other Christians who stated that we should observe the Sabbath still as a christian, but ALL of them meant that to now be Sunday worshipping, not as the SDA holds it to be!

 

[Yeshua1]

Already disproven in the prior post above.




So also with the TEN Commandments - and few Christians today are arguing for taking God's name in vain simply because it is never quoted in the NT and was given "to israel" in Ex 20:1

And of course Heb 4:9 "the REMAINS a Sabbath rest for the people of God"
Is 66:23 "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to Worship"
Is 56:1-10 -- even Gentiles in the OT





That is true -the 3rd commandment is not repeated all others are - but "do not take God's name in vain" is never quoted from in the NT not even once.

Proves that the made-up rule you are invoking is rejected by all of Christianity under "normal" conditions.

Already pointed out half a dozen times or more.



Your false-accusation noted - when will the day come when you will provide some fact for it that actually stands up to review?? So long you have had to work on that false accusation and never found a single fact to support it. I would be embarrassed by now if I were you or else come up with "something" that sticks.



until you read the writings of Paul and his own statement under oath before gentile courts - and of course his "Sabbath after Sabbath" gospel sermons to gentiles in Acts 13, Acts 17, Acts 18



Just not in real life. You provide no quote for it - because you have none.



Rom 14 "one man observes one day above another while another man observes them all ... he who observes the day observes it to the LORD"

The argument is for the Lev 23 annual holy days.



The NT has 1050 commands - what is your limit on God??




The third commandment debunks your made-up rule. And most other Christians have 66 books in their Bibles.

"The Sabbath was MADE for mankind" Mark 2:27

"There REMAINS therefore a SABBATH rest for the people of God" Heb 4:9

The saints "KEEP the Commandments of God" Rev 14:12, 1John 5:1-4, 1Cor 7:19

I will have to go with the Bible on this point.

in Christ,

Bob

the Sabbath day is in Hebrews,hrist and refers to that we can now cease from trying to get saved by keeping trhe law, and to trust in the peace and resting from our own efforts, as jesus did it all for us already!

And keeping the Commandments is just stating to us to keep the law of Christ now, as we should be obedient, NOT in order to either get saved or kept saved, but to show that we have been saved!

 

[DHK]

Brother DHK,

I haven't followed this thread from the beginning. What documents do you feel Brother Bob is misusing and how, and what do you feel is the correct interpretation of these documents? If you have some time quotes and elaboration would help.

God bless,

Brother Joe

Moody, Spurgeon, Westminster Confession of Faith, etc.
He quotes from Moody most. Moody put in a disclaimer in his sermon that his doctrine was not to be confused with the doctrine of the SDA, and yet Bob quotes him any way.
All of these men, including the writers of the W.CoF, had a different definition of Sabbath. It was an era that "Sabbath" meant "Christian Sabbath," and that was an understood term. IOW "Sabbath" simply meant "Sunday." If one downloads the entirety of Moody's sermon it is easy to see how Bob selectively quotes from it. Moody is simply urging those listening to him to take time of their work, set it aside so they come to church on Sunday. Many of them used to work Sundays. He urged them to work on Sundays or cause others to work on Sundays by condoning their establishments (dining at their restaurants, buying the Sunday Newspaper, etc.). It was all about Sunday and putting aside time on Sunday to come to church.
That has absolutely nothing to do with the Jewish Sabbath, keeping the Sabbath, or anything remotely in common with SDA theology. Therefore, for him to use them as reference is dishonest.
Many of us would preach some of the same principles. Do all you can to get people into church on Sunday. That is the principle.

 

[BobRyan]

Brother DHK,

I haven't followed this thread from the beginning. What documents do you feel Brother Bob is misusing and how, and what do you feel is the correct interpretation of these documents? If you have some time quotes and elaboration would help.

God bless,

Brother Joe

If you look at page one of this thread you will find verbatim quotes of a number of "Confessions of Faith" -- I call them pro-Sunday sources --and I complain that they bend the Sabbath Commandment after the cross to point to week-day-1.... DHK objects because he says they are pro-Sunday and that they do not keep Saturday... so I should not refer to them as pro-SUNDAY and quote them verbatim as their verbatim quotes make explicit charges against some of the methods he has chosen to use against the Bible Sabbath.

He has raised that objection numerous times.

And I have repeatedly argued that I find his objection nonsensical.

 

[BobRyan]

SDAs are not the only ones to claim that the Sabbath Commandment was given to all mankind in Eden and is still binding on us to this very day --

================================================

- D.L. Moody notices that some are opposed to the Sabbath Commandment - but notice how this sermon on the TEN Commandments also fits the summary of 7 points listed here on page 1??

BY THE
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]DWIGHT L. MOODY[/FONT][/FONT]​

The Ten Commandments:
Exodus 20:2-17 ​

.
The Fourth Commandment

​

Remember the Sabbath Day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: for in six days the LORD made heaven and Earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath Day, and hallowed it.​

[FONT=&quot]THERE HAS BEEN an awful letting-down in this country regarding the Sabbath during the last twenty-five years, and many a man has been shorn of spiritual power, like Samson, because he is not straight on this question. Can you say that you observe the Sabbath properly? You may be a professed Christian: are you obeying this commandment? Or do you neglect the house of God on the Sabbath day, and spend your time drinking and carousing in places of vice and crime, showing contempt for God and His law? Are you ready to step into the scales? Where were you last Sabbath? How did you spend it?

I honestly believe that this commandment is just as binding today as it ever was. I have talked with men who have said that it has been abrogated, but they have never been able to point to any place in the Bible where God repealed it. When Christ was on earth, He did nothing to set it aside; He freed it from the traces under which the scribes and Pharisees had put it, and gave it its true place. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." (Mark 2:27) [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]It is just as practicable and as necessary for men today as it ever was[/FONT][FONT=&quot]- in fact, more than ever, because we live in such an intense age.

The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. The fourth commandment begins with the word remember, showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote this law on the tables of stone at Sinai. How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?

I believe that the Sabbath question today is a vital one for the whole country. It is the burning question of the present time. If you give up the Sabbath the church goes; [/FONT]

When Moody says "The Sabbath was binding in Eden" he does not mean that he "imagines" that the OT saints were keeping week-day-1 as Sabbath.

Even DHK knows this is true.

 

[BobRyan]

This example the Baptist Confession of Faith shows the CHANGE from the Bible Sabbath saturday - to a bent-4th-Commandment that points to week-day-1. They claim that this "change" comes after the cross.

D.L. Moody is not the only one to claim that the TEN Commandments are given to mankind in Eden and still binding on the saints today.

Baptist Confession of Faith - section 19 almost identical to the Westminster section 19 quoted above.

Notice how they both fit that 7 point summary already posted on page 1?

[FONT=&quot]Baptist Confession of Faith Section 19 link[/FONT]


Section 19:

C.H. Spurgeon's edition of the "Baptist Confession of Faith" -- [FONT=&quot]CH Spurgeon[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

“The Perpetuity of the Law of God”
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]Very great mistakes have been made about the law. Not long ago there were those about us who affirmed that the law is utterly abrogated and abolished, and they openly taught that believers were not bound to make the moral law the rule of their lives. What would have been sin in other men they counted to be no sin in themselves. From such Antinomianism as that may God deliver us. We are not under the law as the method of salvation, but we delight to see the law in the hand of Christ, and desire to obey the Lord in all things. Others have been met with who have taught that Jesus mitigated and softened down the law, and they have in effect said that the perfect law of God was too hard for imperfect beings, and therefore God has given us a milder and easier rule. These tread dangerously upon the verge of terrible error, although we believe that they are little aware of it.

Section 19 of the "Baptist Confession of Faith" .

Section 19
. The Law of God

• God gave to Adam a law of universal obedience which was written in his heart, and He gave him very specific instruction about not eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. By this Adam and all his descendants were bound to personal, total, exact, and perpetual obedience, being promised life upon the fulfilling of the law, and threatened with death upon the breach of it. At the same time Adam was endued with power and ability to keep it.

• The same law that was first written in the heart of man continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness after the Fall, and was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai in the TEN COMMANDMENTS, and written in two tables, the first four containing our duty towards God, and the other six, our duty to man.

• Besides this law, commonly called the moral law, God was pleased do give the people of Israel ceremonial laws containing several typical ordinances. These ordinances were partly about their worship, and in them Christ was prefigured along with His attributes and qualities, His actions, His sufferings and His benefits. These ordinances also gave instructions about different moral duties. All of these ceremonial laws were appointed only until the time of reformation, when Jesus Christ the true Messiah and the only lawgiver, Who was furnished with power from the Father for this end, cancelled them and took them away.

• To the people of Israel He also gave sundry judicial laws which expired when they ceased to be a nation. These are not binding on anyone now by virtue of their being part of the laws of that nation, but their general equity continue to be applicable in modern times.

The moral law ever binds to obedience everyone, justified people as well as others, and not only out of regard for the matter contained in it, but also out of respect for the authority of God the Creator, Who gave the law. Nor does Christ in the Gospel dissolve this law in any way, but He considerably strengthens our obligation to obey it __________________

Originally Posted by Baptist Confession of Faith

[FONT=&quot]Section 22.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]


[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Point 7[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]7. As it is the law of nature that in general a proportion of time, by God's appointment, should be set apart for the worship of God, so He has given in His Word a positive, moral and perpetual commandment, binding upon all men, in all ages to this effect. He has particularly appointed one day in seven for a Sabbath to be kept holy for Him. From the beginning of the world to the resurrection of Christ this was the last day of the week, and from the resurrection of Christ it was changed to the first day of the week and called the Lord's Day. This is to be continued until the end of the world as the Christian Sabbath, the observation of the last day of the week having been abolished.[/FONT]
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__________________

DHK is fully aware of this as well. (More than a few dozen times so far I suspect)

 

[BobRyan]

And these guys of course jump all over that claim to have bent-edited-changed one of God's commandments and how it is wrong for denominations that want to claim 'sola scriptura' testing to follow this tradition based on nothing but what they see has church-tradition and the RCC authority.

First fact -- SDAs are not the ONLY ones to recognize the magnitude of not keeping the Sabbath as God gave it in the actual Bible, the unmitigated authority and forwardness it would take to edit/change/dismiss it ---

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For example Leo Trese in his book "The Faith Explained" -- commentary on the Baltimore Catechism after Vatican II -



[FONT=&quot]The Faith Explained[/FONT][FONT=&quot] (an RC commentary on the Baltimore catechism post Vatican ii) states on Page 242 that [/FONT][FONT=&quot]
====================begin short summary
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]changing the [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Lord's day[/FONT][FONT=&quot] to Sunday[/FONT][FONT=&quot] was in the power of the church since "in the gospels ..Jesus confers upon his church the power to make laws in his name". [/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]page 243

"Nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord's day From Saturday to Sunday. We know of the change only from the tradition of the Church - a fact handed down to us...that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many Non-Catholics, who say that they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and Yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord's day on the say-so of the Catholic church"

[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]====================================== begin expanded quote
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]. (from "The Faith Explained" page 243[/FONT][FONT=&quot].))

"[/FONT][FONT=&quot]we know that in the O.T it was the [/FONT][FONT=&quot]seventh day[/FONT][FONT=&quot] of the week - the Sabbath day [/FONT][FONT=&quot]- which was [/FONT][FONT=&quot]observed as the Lord's day[/FONT][FONT=&quot]. that was [/FONT][FONT=&quot]the law as God gave it[/FONT][FONT=&quot]...[/FONT][FONT=&quot]'remember to keep holy the Sabbath day[/FONT][FONT=&quot].. the early Christian church determined as the Lord's day the first day of the week. That the [/FONT][FONT=&quot]church had the right to make such a law[/FONT][FONT=&quot] is evident[/FONT][FONT=&quot]...[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]The reason for [/FONT][FONT=&quot]changing the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday[/FONT][FONT=&quot] lies in the fact that to the Christian church the first day of the week had been made double holy...[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday.[/FONT][FONT=&quot].that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many non-Catholic who say they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord's day on the say-so of the Catholic church[/FONT]
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DHK has also seen this a few dozen times so far.