Featured Sabbath breaking - becomes the mark of the Beast in the future

BrotherJoseph · May 15, 2015

BobRyan said: ↑

Rebel makes this observation - and gets the following answer in a post on another thread.

I think it deserves some focused attention -- it deals with the question of whether Sabbath breaking matters today.

After all we can ALL agree that if the TEN commandments are dead
- or if the Sabbath commandment can be bent to point to week-day-1,
- or if the Ten Commandments have been downsized to just NINE

then surely this issue of 7th day Sabbath breaking cannot become the mark of the Beast in the future that Rev 13 speaks of.

===========================================

Thank you for your post - your views are always welcome and never taken as ad hominem but always as sincere Christian observation.

We don't say Sunday observance is the mark of the beast rather we say it will be in the future.

If our prediction for the future does not pan out then we were wrong - but how can you present proof that the future does not include this fact - before that time?

...
in Christ,

Bob
Click to expand...

Brother Bob,

Paul explicitly states to the church at Colossi, “Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:” Col 2:16 Days is italicized because it is not in the Greek but is supplied by the translators. The definite article “the” is not in the Greek either. The Greek simply reads “or of sabbaths”. Paul’s instruction is that the Colossian Church was not under obligation to observe Jewish dietary laws. Nor were they under obligation to observe Jewish holydays such as the Passover, Pentecost and Feast of Tabernacles. Nor were they under obligation to observe Jewish months (new moons). Nor were they under obligation to observe the Jewish Sabbaths. The reason for this is they were Christians not Israelites. Thus, Christians are not under the Mosaical Law though they are "not without law to God, but under the law to Christ." 1 Corinthians 9:21

Paul concludes by saying the dietary laws, annual feasts, new moons, and the Sabbaths were, "a shadow of things to come".

The keeping of the Sabbath day rest as a law was only ever enjoined upon the nation of Israel. Not even such patriarchs as Noah and Abraham were specifically commanded to be under the Sabbath law. (In contrast Abraham was under the law of circumcision but Noah was not.) And as previously noted in Colossians 2:16 the church was not obliged to observe the Jewish Sabbath.

Furthermore, the New Testament does not command the Gentile Christians to be under this law because the Sabbath, like other Old Testament types, finds its fulfillment in the New Testament. In Hebrews 4:7-12 we see the explanation of what the Sabbath foreshadowed as Paul had mentioned in Colossians 2:17.

Hebrews 4:7 Again, he (God) limiteth (appoints) a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his (the Holy Ghost’s) voice, harden not your hearts.
8 For if Jesus (OT-Joshua) had given them (nation of Israel) rest (Greek- katapauo, rest), then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remaineth therefore a rest (Greek- sabbatismos, keeping of a rest) to the people of God

The Christian ceases from trying to be righteous by his own works. Thus resting from his works, trusting only in Christ, he enjoys Christ's righteousness – the sabbatismos, Hebrews 4:9. The Old Testament Sabbath day rest is a type of the rest that the Christian enters into when we cease from our corrupted works of righteousness and rest in the perfect righteousness of Jesus Christ.

Brother Joe

Darrell C · May 15, 2015

BobRyan said: ↑

If the OP is not consistent with the new covenant as you stated in your post - then there has to be some Bible discussion of it that shows that idea to be true.

I would argue for example that Christ's teaching in Mark 7 is not in contradiction to the New Covenant but in harmony with it.

in Christ,

Bob
Click to expand...

It is in harmony, but that does not mean the New Covenant was established at that time. It was necessary that this Covenant be established with blood, and that Blood was the Blood of Christ, which puts the establishment of the New Covenant after this was accomplished.

God bless.

McCree79 · May 15, 2015

BrotherJoseph said: ↑

Brother Bob,

Paul explicitly states to the church at Colossi, “Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:” Col 2:16 Days is italicized because it is not in the Greek but is supplied by the translators. The definite article “the” is not in the Greek either. The Greek simply reads “or of sabbaths”. Paul’s instruction is that the Colossian Church was not under obligation to observe Jewish dietary laws. Nor were they under obligation to observe Jewish holydays such as the Passover, Pentecost and Feast of Tabernacles. Nor were they under obligation to observe Jewish months (new moons). Nor were they under obligation to observe the Jewish Sabbaths. The reason for this is they were Christians not Israelites. Thus, Christians are not under the Mosaical Law though they are "not without law to God, but under the law to Christ." 1 Corinthians 9:21
Click to expand...

Well said

BobRyan · May 15, 2015

BrotherJoseph said: ↑

Brother Bob,

Paul explicitly states to the church at Colossi, “Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:” Col 2:16 Days is italicized because it is not in the Greek but is supplied by the translators.
Click to expand...

Col 2 - NKJV
16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths,

[FONT=&quot]Paul is not arguing against eating, or drinking or scripture, or God's Sabbath Commandment in Col 2.

[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]He is not condemning the Bible - not even in the Lev 17 food laws about not eating meat with [FONT=&quot]blood in it - as Acts 15 reminds the NT sa[FONT=&quot]ints [/FONT]to keep honoring it.[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Rather he is doing these two things.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1. Argues against making stuff up.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2. Argues that our debt owed for our sins - was nailed to the cross.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Col 2 is about making up a rule and judging others of being guilty of sin because they differ with you, even if that invented rule is related to a Bible command. But Col 2 is not an attempt by Paul to delete the scriptures. Rather Paul condemns the idea of making stuff up that is not in scripture at all - where the only source/authority is "man".
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Col 2[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]18 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflated without cause by his fleshly mind, [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]19 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]and not holding fast to the head, from whom the entire body, being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments, grows with a growth which is from God.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
Col 2
20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]21 [/FONT][FONT=&quot](Touch not; taste not; handle not;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]22 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]23 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh. (KJV)[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Col 2[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]20 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as, [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]21 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]“Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!” 22 (which all refer to things destined to perish with use)—in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men? [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]23 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence.(NASB)[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Other examples of MAKING up RULEs pre-cross and post-cross: [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Mark 7:6-13 - inventing rules about food and drink and also setting aside God's Law[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Mark 2:23-28, Matt 12:1-8. "You do many such things as this - Mark 7:13)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Acts 10:28[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Acts 15:1[/FONT]

Paul’s instruction is that the Colossian Church was not under obligation to observe Jewish dietary laws.
Click to expand...

1. Paul does not condemn the Bible at all in Col 2 - unless one imagines scripture to be "the commandments of men".
2. Paul does not condemn the dietary laws ever. One reason is because in Acts 15 the Lev 17 dietary law against eating meat with blood in it - is explicitly held up as binding for all the saints.

The keeping of the Sabbath day rest as a law was only ever enjoined upon the nation of Israel.
Click to expand...

Until you read the Bible.

[FONT=&quot]1 Cor 7:19 "but [/FONT][FONT=&quot]what matters is keeping the Commandments of God[/FONT][FONT=&quot]".[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Rom 3:31 "[/FONT][FONT=&quot]do we then make void the law of God by our faith - God forbid! In fact we establish the Law of God[/FONT][FONT=&quot]".[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]James 2 "he who [/FONT][FONT=&quot]breaks one of the commandments is guilty of breaking all[/FONT][FONT=&quot]".[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Heb 4 "there [/FONT][FONT=&quot]remains therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God[/FONT][FONT=&quot]".[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Is 66 "[/FONT][FONT=&quot]From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to Worship[/FONT][FONT=&quot]".[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Mark 2:27 "The [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Sabbath was made for MANKIND[/FONT][FONT=&quot]".[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Matt 5 "[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Think not that I came to ABOLISH the Law of God - I came not to abolish but to fulfill[/FONT][FONT=&quot]".[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Christ perfectly fulfilled Lev 19:18 "[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Love your neighbor as yourself[/FONT][FONT=&quot]"[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Christ perfectly fulfilled Deut 6:5 "[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Love God with all of your heart, soul and mind[/FONT][FONT=&quot]".[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Is 56[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Blessed is the man[/FONT][FONT=&quot] who does this,[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
And the son of man who lays hold on it;
Who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And keeps his hand from doing any evil.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]3 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Do not let the son of the foreigner[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
Who has joined himself to the Lord
Speak, saying,
“The Lord has utterly separated me from His people”;
Nor let the eunuch say,
“Here I am, a dry tree.”
4 For thus says the Lord:[/FONT]
“To the eunuchs who keep My Sabbaths,
And choose what pleases Me,
And hold fast My covenant,
5 Even to them I will give in My house
And within My walls a place and a name
Better than that of sons and daughters;
I will give them an everlasting name
That shall not be cut off.
[FONT=&quot]6 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]“Also the sons of the foreigner[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him,
And to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants—
Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And holds fast My covenant—
7 Even them I will bring to My holy mountain,[/FONT]
And make them joyful in My house of prayer.
Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices
Will be accepted on My altar;
For My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations.”

BobRyan · May 15, 2015

Which is one of the reasons we find this on -- page 1

BobRyan said: ↑

SDAs are not the only ones to claim that the Sabbath Commandment was given to all mankind in Eden and is still binding on us to this very day --

================================================

- D.L. Moody notices that some are opposed to the Sabbath Commandment - but notice how this sermon on the TEN Commandments also fits the summary of 7 points listed here on page 1??

BY THE
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]DWIGHT L. MOODY[/FONT][/FONT]

The Ten Commandments:
Exodus 20:2-17

.
The Fourth Commandment

Remember the Sabbath Day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: for in six days the LORD made heaven and Earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath Day, and hallowed it.

[FONT=&quot]THERE HAS BEEN an awful letting-down in this country regarding the Sabbath during the last twenty-five years, and many a man has been shorn of spiritual power, like Samson, because he is not straight on this question. Can you say that you observe the Sabbath properly? You may be a professed Christian: are you obeying this commandment? Or do you neglect the house of God on the Sabbath day, and spend your time drinking and carousing in places of vice and crime, showing contempt for God and His law? Are you ready to step into the scales? Where were you last Sabbath? How did you spend it?

I honestly believe that this commandment is just as binding today as it ever was. I have talked with men who have said that it has been abrogated, but they have never been able to point to any place in the Bible where God repealed it. When Christ was on earth, He did nothing to set it aside; He freed it from the traces under which the scribes and Pharisees had put it, and gave it its true place. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." (Mark 2:27) [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]It is just as practicable and as necessary for men today as it ever was[/FONT][FONT=&quot]- in fact, more than ever, because we live in such an intense age.

The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. The fourth commandment begins with the word remember, showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote this law on the tables of stone at Sinai. How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?

I believe that the Sabbath question today is a vital one for the whole country. It is the burning question of the present time. If you give up the Sabbath the church goes; [/FONT]
Click to expand...

vooks · May 15, 2015

BobRyan said: ↑

Col 2 - NKJV
16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths,

[FONT=&quot]Paul is not arguing against eating, or drinking or scripture, or God's Sabbath Commandment in Col 2.

[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]He is not condemning the Bible - not even in the Lev 17 food laws about not eating meat with [FONT=&quot]blood in it - as Acts 15 reminds the NT sa[FONT=&quot]ints [/FONT]to keep honoring it.[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Rather he is doing these two things.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1. Argues against making stuff up.[/FONT]
Click to expand...

Do you keep the Jewish feasts devoid of 'made up stuff'?

[FONT=&quot]2. Argues that our debt owed for our sins - was nailed to the cross.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Col 2 is about making up a rule and judging others of being guilty of sin because they differ with you, even if that invented rule is related to a Bible command. But Col 2 is not an attempt by Paul to delete the scriptures. Rather Paul condemns the idea of making stuff up that is not in scripture at all - where the only source/authority is "man".
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Col 2[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]18 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflated without cause by his fleshly mind, [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]19 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]and not holding fast to the head, from whom the entire body, being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments, grows with a growth which is from God.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
Col 2
20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]21 [/FONT][FONT=&quot](Touch not; taste not; handle not;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]22 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]23 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh. (KJV)[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Col 2[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]20 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as, [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]21 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]“Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!” 22 (which all refer to things destined to perish with use)—in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men? [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]23 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence.(NASB)[/FONT]
Click to expand...

Do you keep the Jewish feasts minus 'made up stuff' about them?

[FONT=&quot]Other examples of MAKING up RULEs pre-cross and post-cross: [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Mark 7:6-13 - inventing rules about food and drink and also setting aside God's Law[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Mark 2:23-28, Matt 12:1-8. "You do many such things as this - Mark 7:13)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Acts 10:28[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Acts 15:1[/FONT]

1. Paul does not condemn the Bible at all in Col 2 - unless one imagines scripture to be "the commandments of men".
2. Paul does not condemn the dietary laws ever. One reason is because in Acts 15 the Lev 17 dietary law against eating meat with blood in it - is explicitly held up as binding for all the saints.
Click to expand...

When last did you keep Tabernacles?

Until you read the Bible.

[FONT=&quot]1 Cor 7:19 "but [/FONT][FONT=&quot]what matters is keeping the Commandments of God[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]".[/FONT]
Click to expand...

Yes, the 613 of them

[FONT=&quot]Rom 3:31 "[/FONT][FONT=&quot]do we then make void the law of God by our faith - God forbid! In fact we establish the Law of God[/FONT][FONT=&quot]".[/FONT]
Click to expand...

Yes, again the 613

[FONT=&quot]James 2 "he who [/FONT][FONT=&quot]breaks one of the commandments is guilty of breaking all[/FONT][FONT=&quot]".[/FONT]
Any of the 613

[FONT=&quot]Heb 4 "there [/FONT][FONT=&quot]remains therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God[/FONT][FONT=&quot]".[/FONT]
Click to expand...

BobRyan the the serial pious crook. Where is the sabbath commandment in Hebrews 4?

[FONT=&quot]Is 66 "[/FONT][FONT=&quot]From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to Worship[/FONT][FONT=&quot]".[/FONT]
Click to expand...

Cheap fraud, the same mentions New Moons. Will you be keeping these in eternity?

[FONT=&quot]Mark 2:27 "The [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Sabbath was made for MANKIND[/FONT][FONT=&quot]".[/FONT]
Click to expand...

So was Solomon's temple

[FONT=&quot]Matt 5 "[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Think not that I came to ABOLISH the Law of God - I came not to abolish but to fulfill[/FONT][FONT=&quot]".[/FONT]
Click to expand...

Which is why your wife remains unclean for 7 days during her periods

[FONT=&quot]Christ perfectly fulfilled Lev 19:18 "[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Love your neighbor as yourself[/FONT][FONT=&quot]"[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Christ perfectly fulfilled Deut 6:5 "[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Love God with all of your heart, soul and mind[/FONT][FONT=&quot]".[/FONT]
Click to expand...

And that COMMANDMENT is not among the Ten

[FONT=&quot]Is 56[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Blessed is the man[/FONT][FONT=&quot] who does this,[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
And the son of man who lays hold on it;
Who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And keeps his hand from doing any evil.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]3 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Do not let the son of the foreigner[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
Who has joined himself to the Lord
Speak, saying,
“The Lord has utterly separated me from His people”;
Nor let the eunuch say,
“Here I am, a dry tree.”
4 For thus says the Lord:[/FONT]
“To the eunuchs who keep My Sabbaths,
And choose what pleases Me,
And hold fast My covenant,
5 Even to them I will give in My house
And within My walls a place and a name
Better than that of sons and daughters;
I will give them an everlasting name
That shall not be cut off.
[FONT=&quot]6 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]“Also the sons of the foreigner[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him,
And to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants—
Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And holds fast My covenant—
7 Even them I will bring to My holy mountain,[/FONT]
And make them joyful in My house of prayer.
Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices
Will be accepted on My altar;
For My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations.”
Click to expand...

Yes BobRyan, let's go to Jerusalem and offer burnt offerings and sacrifices.

It's high time you used your brains son:tonofbricks:
Click to expand...

BobRyan · May 15, 2015

I think when Vooks is not trying to remind us all of my Sig line - he is trying to remind us all to go to page one and read post #4 -- again.

BobRyan said: ↑

D.L. Moody is not the only one to claim that the TEN Commandments are given to mankind in Eden and still binding on the saints today.

Baptist Confession of Faith - section 19 almost identical to the Westminster section 19 quoted above.

Notice how they both fit that 7 point summary already posted on page 1?

[FONT=&quot]Baptist Confession of Faith Section 19 link[/FONT]

Section 19:

C.H. Spurgeon's edition of the "Baptist Confession of Faith" -- [FONT=&quot]CH Spurgeon[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

“The Perpetuity of the Law of God”
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]Very great mistakes have been made about the law. Not long ago there were those about us who affirmed that the law is utterly abrogated and abolished, and they openly taught that believers were not bound to make the moral law the rule of their lives. What would have been sin in other men they counted to be no sin in themselves. From such Antinomianism as that may God deliver us. We are not under the law as the method of salvation, but we delight to see the law in the hand of Christ, and desire to obey the Lord in all things. Others have been met with who have taught that Jesus mitigated and softened down the law, and they have in effect said that the perfect law of God was too hard for imperfect beings, and therefore God has given us a milder and easier rule. These tread dangerously upon the verge of terrible error, although we believe that they are little aware of it.

Section 19 of the "Baptist Confession of Faith" .

Section 19
. The Law of God

God gave to Adam a law of universal obedience which was written in his heart, and He gave him very specific instruction about not eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. By this Adam and all his descendants were bound to personal, total, exact, and perpetual obedience, being promised life upon the fulfilling of the law, and threatened with death upon the breach of it. At the same time Adam was endued with power and ability to keep it.

The same law that was first written in the heart of man continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness after the Fall, and was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai in the TEN COMMANDMENTS, and written in two tables, the first four containing our duty towards God, and the other six, our duty to man.

Besides this law, commonly called the moral law, God was pleased do give the people of Israel ceremonial laws containing several typical ordinances. These ordinances were partly about their worship, and in them Christ was prefigured along with His attributes and qualities, His actions, His sufferings and His benefits. These ordinances also gave instructions about different moral duties. All of these ceremonial laws were appointed only until the time of reformation, when Jesus Christ the true Messiah and the only lawgiver, Who was furnished with power from the Father for this end, cancelled them and took them away.

To the people of Israel He also gave sundry judicial laws which expired when they ceased to be a nation. These are not binding on anyone now by virtue of their being part of the laws of that nation, but their general equity continue to be applicable in modern times.

The moral law ever binds to obedience everyone, justified people as well as others, and not only out of regard for the matter contained in it, but also out of respect for the authority of God the Creator, Who gave the law. Nor does Christ in the Gospel dissolve this law in any way, but He considerably strengthens our obligation to obey it __________________

Originally Posted by Baptist Confession of Faith
[FONT=&quot]Section 22.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Point 7[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]7. As it is the law of nature that in general a proportion of time, by God's appointment, should be set apart for the worship of God, so He has given in His Word a positive, moral and perpetual commandment, binding upon all men, in all ages to this effect. He has particularly appointed one day in seven for a Sabbath to be kept holy for Him. From the beginning of the world to the resurrection of Christ this was the last day of the week, and from the resurrection of Christ it was changed to the first day of the week and called the Lord's Day. This is to be continued until the end of the world as the Christian Sabbath, the observation of the last day of the week having been abolished.[/FONT]

__________________
Click to expand...

Gerhard Ebersoehn · May 15, 2015

BobRyan said: ↑

7. As it is the law of nature that in general a proportion of time, by God's appointment, should be set apart for the worship of God, so He has given in His Word a positive, moral and perpetual commandment, binding upon all men, in all ages to this effect. He has particularly appointed one day in seven for a Sabbath to be kept holy for Him. From the beginning of the world to the resurrection of Christ this was the last day of the week, and from the resurrection of Christ it was changed to the first day of the week and called the Lord's Day. This is to be continued until the end of the world as the Christian Sabbath, the observation of the last day of the week having been abolished.
Click to expand...

. . . and Bob Ryan and all SDAs still reject this truth . . . truth about the <mark of the beast>!

It cannot be made more conspicuous as well as unambiguous HERE you have it what you propagate BUT AT THE SAME TIME REJECT!

Foolish SDAs!

BrotherJoseph · May 15, 2015

BobRyan said: ↑

Col 2 - NKJV
16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths,

[FONT=&quot]Paul is not arguing against eating, or drinking or scripture, or God's Sabbath Commandment in Col 2.

[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]He is not condemning the Bible - not even in the Lev 17 food laws about not eating meat with [FONT=&quot]blood in it - as Acts 15 reminds the NT sa[FONT=&quot]ints [/FONT]to keep honoring it.[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Rather he is doing these two things.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1. Argues against making stuff up.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2. Argues that our debt owed for our sins - was nailed to the cross.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Col 2 is about making up a rule and judging others of being guilty of sin because they differ with you, even if that invented rule is related to a Bible command. But Col 2 is not an attempt by Paul to delete the scriptures. Rather Paul condemns the idea of making stuff up that is not in scripture at all - where the only source/authority is "man".
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Col 2[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]18 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflated without cause by his fleshly mind, [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]19 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]and not holding fast to the head, from whom the entire body, being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments, grows with a growth which is from God.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
Col 2
20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]21 [/FONT][FONT=&quot](Touch not; taste not; handle not;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]22 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]23 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh. (KJV)[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Col 2[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]20 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as, [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]21 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]“Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!” 22 (which all refer to things destined to perish with use)—in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men? [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]23 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence.(NASB)[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Other examples of MAKING up RULEs pre-cross and post-cross: [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Mark 7:6-13 - inventing rules about food and drink and also setting aside God's Law[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Mark 2:23-28, Matt 12:1-8. "You do many such things as this - Mark 7:13)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Acts 10:28[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Acts 15:1[/FONT]

1. Paul does not condemn the Bible at all in Col 2 - unless one imagines scripture to be "the commandments of men".
2. Paul does not condemn the dietary laws ever. One reason is because in Acts 15 the Lev 17 dietary law against eating meat with blood in it - is explicitly held up as binding for all the saints.

Until you read the Bible.

[FONT=&quot]1 Cor 7:19 "but [/FONT][FONT=&quot]what matters is keeping the Commandments of God[/FONT][FONT=&quot]".[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Rom 3:31 "[/FONT][FONT=&quot]do we then make void the law of God by our faith - God forbid! In fact we establish the Law of God[/FONT][FONT=&quot]".[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]James 2 "he who [/FONT][FONT=&quot]breaks one of the commandments is guilty of breaking all[/FONT][FONT=&quot]".[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Heb 4 "there [/FONT][FONT=&quot]remains therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God[/FONT][FONT=&quot]".[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Is 66 "[/FONT][FONT=&quot]From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to Worship[/FONT][FONT=&quot]".[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Mark 2:27 "The [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Sabbath was made for MANKIND[/FONT][FONT=&quot]".[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Matt 5 "[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Think not that I came to ABOLISH the Law of God - I came not to abolish but to fulfill[/FONT][FONT=&quot]".[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Christ perfectly fulfilled Lev 19:18 "[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Love your neighbor as yourself[/FONT][FONT=&quot]"[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Christ perfectly fulfilled Deut 6:5 "[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Love God with all of your heart, soul and mind[/FONT][FONT=&quot]".[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Is 56[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Blessed is the man[/FONT][FONT=&quot] who does this,[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
And the son of man who lays hold on it;
Who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And keeps his hand from doing any evil.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]3 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Do not let the son of the foreigner[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
Who has joined himself to the Lord
Speak, saying,
“The Lord has utterly separated me from His people”;
Nor let the eunuch say,
“Here I am, a dry tree.”
4 For thus says the Lord:[/FONT]
“To the eunuchs who keep My Sabbaths,
And choose what pleases Me,
And hold fast My covenant,
5 Even to them I will give in My house
And within My walls a place and a name
Better than that of sons and daughters;
I will give them an everlasting name
That shall not be cut off.
[FONT=&quot]6 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]“Also the sons of the foreigner[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him,
And to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants—
Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And holds fast My covenant—
7 Even them I will bring to My holy mountain,[/FONT]
And make them joyful in My house of prayer.
Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices
Will be accepted on My altar;
For My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations.”
Click to expand...

Brother Bob,

Colossians 2:16 is pretty clear, "16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the Sabbath"
You may try to do two long winded posts to try to circumvent and explain away the verse regarding the Sabbath, but it does not take a theologian to understand what Paul is conveying to his audience. How much more clearer do you need Paul to be?

To illustrate the church’s responsibilities to the Old Testament Sabbath, we need to understand its responsibilities to the rest of the Ten Commandments. With respect to Commandments 5-10, all six of these are specifically enjoined upon Christians in the following passages.
Commandment 5: Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise) That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth. Ephesians 6:2-3

Commandments 6-10: Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Romans 13:8-9

Commandments 1-3 are enjoined upon Christians in the following passages.

Commandment 1: I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. Romans 12:1
… serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear: Heb 12:28

Commandment 2: Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen. 1John 5:21

Commandment 3: But above all things, my brethren, swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and your nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation. James 5:12

Which commandments, Christ summed up in Mark 12:30, “…thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.”

But neither in any of the above lists nor anywhere else in the New Testament is keeping the Sabbath day ever enjoined upon the Christian Church. This is a telling omission, for if nine parts of the law are specifically enjoined upon Christians then if Christians are expected to be under the Old Testament Sabbath, surely it would have been specifically stipulated, as where the others.

Brother Joe

BobRyan · May 15, 2015

BrotherJoseph said: ↑

Brother Bob,

Colossians 2:16 is pretty clear,
Click to expand...

On that one single point we apparently do agree

as noted here

============================================
Originally Posted by BobRyan
Col 2 - NKJV
16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths,

[FONT=&quot]Paul is not arguing against eating, or drinking or scripture, or God's Sabbath Commandment in Col 2.

[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]He is not condemning the Bible - not even in the Lev 17 food laws about not eating meat with [FONT=&quot]blood in it - as Acts 15 reminds the NT sa[FONT=&quot]ints [/FONT]to keep honoring it.[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Rather he is doing these two things.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1. Argues against making stuff up.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2. Argues that our debt owed for our sins - was nailed to the cross.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Col 2 is about making up a rule and judging others of being guilty of sin because they differ with you, even if that invented rule is related to a Bible command. But Col 2 is not an attempt by Paul to delete the scriptures. Rather Paul condemns the idea of making stuff up that is not in scripture at all - where the only source/authority is "man".
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Col 2[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]18 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflated without cause by his fleshly mind, [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]19 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]and not holding fast to the head, from whom the entire body, being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments, grows with a growth which is from God.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
Col 2
20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]21 [/FONT][FONT=&quot](Touch not; taste not; handle not;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]22 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]23 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh. (KJV)[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Col 2[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]20 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as, [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]21 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]“Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!” 22 (which all refer to things destined to perish with use)—in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men? [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]23 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence.(NASB)[/FONT]

BrotherJoseph said: ↑

You may try to do two long winded posts to try to circumvent and explain away
Click to expand...

Something we call "exegesis" you look at the points being raised in that chapter that clearly identify the subject and define it.

Your argument that we are looking at too much of Col 2 and that this detracts from the bent you would have in it - simply exposes the fact that exegesis is not compatible with the agenda you have for the text.

But when we let the 'details in the chapter' speak about the "content of the chapter" -- it all fits and the complaints arise that we are looking at too much detail in Col 2 - from those whose interest is not served by that method.

Were we simply "not supposed to notice"??

Even the majority of pro-SUNDAY scholarship make this same observation about Col 2 not deleting the Sabbath Commandment.

How do you suppose it is that this Bible detail is SO incredibly obvious that BOTH sides of the debate agree???

in Christ,

Bob

BobRyan · May 15, 2015

BrotherJoseph said: ↑

To illustrate the church’s responsibilities to the Old Testament Sabbath, we need to understand its responsibilities to the rest of the Ten Commandments. With respect to Commandments 5-10, all six of these are specifically enjoined upon Christians in the following passages.
Commandment 5: Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise) That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth. Ephesians 6:2-3

Commandments 6-10: Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Romans 13:8-9
Click to expand...

So then you would 'downsize' what the BIBLE calls the "TEN Commandments" to the NINE??

Via what? man-made tradition?

BrotherJoseph said: ↑

Commandments 1-3 are enjoined upon Christians in the following passages.

Commandment 1: I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. Romans 12:1
… serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear: Heb 12:28

Commandment 2: Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen. 1John 5:21

Commandment 3: But above all things, my brethren, swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and your nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation. James 5:12
Click to expand...

As it turns out - that is not a quote of Commandment 3 about not taking God's name in vain.

in fact you have no quote at all of Commandment 3 in all of the NT.

It is the only commandment not quoted in the NT.

[FONT=&quot]Never quoted in the NEW Testament. The third Commandment.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Heb 6:13[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]13 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]For when God made a promise to Abraham, because He could swear by no one greater, He swore by Himself[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]In keeping with this fact – Andy Stanley’s sermon on the TEN Commandments states of the Third commandment that taking God’s name in vain includes the false doctrine of claiming that God told you not to keep one of the TEN Commandments![/FONT]

By contrast - the 4th Commandment is quoted from several times in the NT.

Does this prove that the 3rd commandment is deleted? No! It proves that the game was a silly game to start with.

in Christ,

Bob

BrotherJoseph · May 15, 2015

Brother Bob,

Thanks for replying to my post and starting this thread. Consider the following from Primitive Baptist Elder Samuel Trott in an article titled "The Sabbath" written in 1833. I have copied and pasted a portion of it below, but the entire article can be found here http://www.asweetsavor.info/est/sabbath3.php

"Third, the Institution of the Sabbath is spoken of in the Old Testament as a positive Institution, given to the House of Israel for a sign. “Moreover also I gave them my Sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the Lord that sanctify them.” Ezek.20:12 & 20. See also Exod.31:12 & Neh.9:14. In conformity with this idea the Lord Jesus told those who accused him of Sabbath breaking, that “the Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath,” Mark 2:27; and in the following verse, we are told that, “the Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath.” This can mean nothing less than that he has authority to dispense with the observance of the Sabbath. Were we to admit, that as God, it is consistent with his nature to dispense with any moral obligation, of the law, which however we do not, yet when we consider that as the Son of man, he was made under the law, and came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many; that he came not to destroy the law or the Prophets, but to fulfill {Matt.5:17, 20:28 & Gal.4:4,} it certainly cannot be supposed that as such he had authority to dispense with any moral precept of the law. The conclusion is therefore irresistible that the Jewish Sabbath was a positive and not a moral Institution. (The other 9 commandments are moral in nature, unlike keeping the Sabbath)

But fourth, whilst the Sabbath was given to National Israel, as a positive Institution, it was designed in reference to Spiritual Israel, to be a shadow of another rest, see Heb.4:4-10. Hence the Apostle connects Sabbath-days with New-moons, and with meats and drinks and other shadows, whose body was of Christ; see Col.2:16,17. Again, the Apostles speaking of Jewish days in which the Sabbath of course, must have been included, considers the observance of one day above another as a thing indifferent; his expression is, “One man esteemeth one day above another; another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.” Rom.4:5. The Body – Christ, having come, the shadow is of course done away."

God bless you brother Bob!

DHK · May 15, 2015

BobRyan said: ↑

Even the majority of pro-SUNDAY scholarship make this same observation about Col 2 not deleting the Sabbath Commandment.
Click to expand...

There is no commandment anywhere, in the NT, for the believer to keep the Sabbath.

BrotherJoseph · May 15, 2015

DHK said: ↑

There is no commandment anywhere, in the NT, for the believer to keep the Sabbath.
Click to expand...

Brother DHK,

This is the truth, but I suspect Brother Bob will not have any of it as it conflicts with his denominational dogma.

BobRyan · May 15, 2015

DHK said: ↑

There is no commandment anywhere, in the NT, for the believer to keep the Sabbath.
Click to expand...

Do you consider this part of the Bible - deleted?

[FONT=&quot]1 Cor 7:19 "but [/FONT][FONT=&quot]what matters is keeping the Commandments of God[/FONT][FONT=&quot]".[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Rom 3:31 "[/FONT][FONT=&quot]do we then make void the law of God by our faith - God forbid! In fact we establish the Law of God[/FONT][FONT=&quot]".[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]James 2 "he who [/FONT][FONT=&quot]breaks one of the commandments is guilty of breaking all[/FONT][FONT=&quot]".[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Heb 4 "there [/FONT][FONT=&quot]remains therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God[/FONT][FONT=&quot]".[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Is 66 "[/FONT][FONT=&quot]From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to Worship[/FONT][FONT=&quot]".[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Mark 2:27 "The [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Sabbath was made for MANKIND[/FONT][FONT=&quot]".[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Matt 5 "[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Think not that I came to ABOLISH the Law of God - I came not to abolish but to fulfill[/FONT][FONT=&quot]".[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Christ perfectly fulfilled Lev 19:18 "[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Love your neighbor as yourself[/FONT][FONT=&quot]"[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Christ perfectly fulfilled Deut 6:5 "[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Love God with all of your heart, soul and mind[/FONT][FONT=&quot]".[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Is 56[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Blessed is the man[/FONT][FONT=&quot] who does this,[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
And the son of man who lays hold on it;
Who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And keeps his hand from doing any evil.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]3 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Do not let the son of the foreigner[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
Who has joined himself to the Lord
Speak, saying,
“The Lord has utterly separated me from His people”;
Nor let the eunuch say,
“Here I am, a dry tree.”
4 For thus says the Lord:[/FONT]
“To the eunuchs who keep My Sabbaths,
And choose what pleases Me,
And hold fast My covenant,
5 Even to them I will give in My house
And within My walls a place and a name
Better than that of sons and daughters;
I will give them an everlasting name
That shall not be cut off.
[FONT=&quot]6 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]“Also the sons of the foreigner[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him,
And to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants—
Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And holds fast My covenant—
7 Even them I will bring to My holy mountain,[/FONT]
And make them joyful in My house of prayer.
Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices
Will be accepted on My altar;
For My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations.”

BobRyan · May 15, 2015

BrotherJoseph said: ↑

Brother Bob,

Thanks for replying to my post and starting this thread. Consider the following from Primitive Baptist Elder Samuel Trott in an article titled "The Sabbath" written in 1833. I have copied and pasted a portion of it below, but the entire article can be found here http://www.asweetsavor.info/est/sabbath3.php

"Third, the Institution of the Sabbath is spoken of in the Old Testament as a positive Institution, given to the House of Israel for a sign. “Moreover also I gave them my Sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the Lord that sanctify them.” Ezek.20:12 & 20. See also Exod.31:12 & Neh.9:14. In conformity with this idea the Lord Jesus told those who accused him of Sabbath breaking, that “the Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath,” Mark 2:27; and in the following verse, we are told that, “the Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath.” This can mean nothing less than that he has authority to dispense with the observance of the Sabbath. Were we to admit, that as God, it is consistent with his nature to dispense with any moral obligation, of the law, which however we do not, yet when we consider that as the Son of man, he was made under the law, and came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many; that he came not to destroy the law or the Prophets, but to fulfill {Matt.5:17, 20:28 & Gal.4:4,} it certainly cannot be supposed that as such he had authority to dispense with any moral precept of the law. The conclusion is therefore irresistible that the Jewish Sabbath was a positive and not a moral Institution. (The other 9 commandments are moral in nature, unlike keeping the Sabbath)

But fourth, whilst the Sabbath was given to National Israel, as a positive Institution, it was designed in reference to Spiritual Israel, to be a shadow of another rest, see Heb.4:4-10. Hence the Apostle connects Sabbath-days with New-moons, and with meats and drinks and other shadows, whose body was of Christ; see Col.2:16,17. Again, the Apostles speaking of Jewish days in which the Sabbath of course, must have been included, considers the observance of one day above another as a thing indifferent; his expression is, “One man esteemeth one day above another; another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.” Rom.4:5. The Body – Christ, having come, the shadow is of course done away."

God bless you brother Bob!
Click to expand...

Thank you brother Joseph.

I have to admit I don't know much about Primitive Baptists.

Will read through this - though on the surface I don't notice this author spending much time at all in Col 2 trying to do exegesis of the text -- from the text.

Both the NEW covenant Jer 31:31-33, Heb 8 AND what the BIBLE calls the TEN Commandments are given to "The House of Israel" - according to scripture.

And according to Heb 8:6-11 it is CHRIST that gave us the TEN Commandments

in Christ,

Bob

DHK · May 15, 2015

BobRyan said: ↑

Do you consider this part of the Bible - deleted?

1 Cor 7:19 "but what matters is keeping the Commandments of God".
Click to expand...

Nothing here about the Sabbath. The Sabbath was given to Israel. Check Exodus 31.

Rom 3:31 "do we then make void the law of God by our faith - God forbid! In fact we establish the Law of God".
Click to expand...

--Is there some mysterious reference concerning a command to keep the Sabbath hidden in this verse that I don't know about??

James 2 "breaks one of the commandments is guilty of breaking all".
Click to expand...

This is a general principle about sin. But there is nothing about keeping the Sabbath. The Sabbath was given to Israel.

Heb 4 "there remains therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God".
Click to expand...

Context here is Christ. It is Christ who is our Sabbath in the NT, not a day.

Is 66 "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to Worship".
Click to expand...

A non sequitor as my statement said in the NT

Mark 2:27 "Sabbath was made for MANKIND".
Click to expand...

Nice information. The second half of the verse is also good. But it is not a command to keep the Sabbath, is it?

Matt 5 "Think not that I came to ABOLISH the Law of God - I came not to abolish but to fulfill
Click to expand...

--No command here to keep the Sabbath.

Christ perfectly fulfilled Lev 19:18 "Love your neighbor as yourself"
Click to expand...

So what? Loving your neighbor has nothing to do with keeping the Sabbath!

Christ perfectly fulfilled Deut 6:5 "Love God with all of your heart, soul and mind".
Click to expand...

This speaks to the perfection of Christ, not to a command to keeping the Sabbath. There is no command to keep the Sabbath.

Is 56
Blessed is the man who does this,
And the son of man who lays hold on it;
Who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And keeps his hand from doing any evil.”
3 Do not let the son of the foreigner
Who has joined himself to the Lord
Speak, saying,
“The Lord has utterly separated me from His people”;
Nor let the eunuch say,
“Here I am, a dry tree.”
4 For thus says the Lord:
“To the eunuchs who keep My Sabbaths,
And choose what pleases Me,
And hold fast My covenant,
5 Even to them I will give in My house
And within My walls a place and a name
Better than that of sons and daughters;
I will give them an everlasting name
That shall not be cut off.
6 “Also the sons of the foreigner
Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him,
And to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants—
Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And holds fast My covenant—
7 Even them I will bring to My holy mountain,
And make them joyful in My house of prayer.
Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices
Will be accepted on My altar;
For My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations.”
Click to expand...

This passage in Isaiah 56 is another non sequitor. It is in the OT, and has nothing to do with the NT believer. My challenge, again, was in the NT.

BobRyan · May 15, 2015

DHK said: ↑

Nothing here about the Sabbath. The Sabbath was given to Israel. Check Exodus 31.
Click to expand...

So also the TEN Commandments - Ex 20:1.
So also the NEW Covenant Jer 31:31-33, Hebrews 8.

If the Ten Commandments do not apply to Christians - it is news to the "Baptist Confession of Faith" and also the "Westminster Confession of Faith".

If the New Covenant does not apply to Christians - it is news to Paul.

The rule that whatever the Jews had been given cannot also be given to Christians - fails the test of scriptures.

Is 56 proves that even in the OT the Sabbath is not just for Jews -

DHK said: ↑

This passage in Isaiah 56 is another non sequitor. It is in the OT, and has nothing to do with the NT believer. My challenge, again, was in the NT.
Click to expand...

You made the argument from Ex 31 against the Sabbath and now you want to ignore the OT telling us that you are wrong - that the Sabbath is for gentiles even in the OT.

And in Is 66:23 it is for all mankind in all of eternity future.

in Christ,

Bob

BobRyan · May 15, 2015

BobRyan said: ↑

Do you consider this part of the Bible - deleted?

[FONT=&quot]1 Cor 7:19 "but [/FONT][FONT=&quot]what matters is keeping the Commandments of God[/FONT][FONT=&quot]".[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Rom 3:31 "[/FONT][FONT=&quot]do we then make void the law of God by our faith - God forbid! In fact we establish the Law of God[/FONT][FONT=&quot]".[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]James 2 "he who [/FONT][FONT=&quot]breaks one of the commandments is guilty of breaking all[/FONT][FONT=&quot]".[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Heb 4 "there [/FONT][FONT=&quot]remains therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God[/FONT][FONT=&quot]".[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Is 66 "[/FONT][FONT=&quot]From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to Worship[/FONT][FONT=&quot]".[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Mark 2:27 "The [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Sabbath was made for MANKIND[/FONT][FONT=&quot]".[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Matt 5 "[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Think not that I came to ABOLISH the Law of God - I came not to abolish but to fulfill[/FONT][FONT=&quot]".[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Christ perfectly fulfilled Lev 19:18 "[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Love your neighbor as yourself[/FONT][FONT=&quot]"[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Christ perfectly fulfilled Deut 6:5 "[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Love God with all of your heart, soul and mind[/FONT][FONT=&quot]".[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Is 56[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Blessed is the man[/FONT][FONT=&quot] who does this,[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
And the son of man who lays hold on it;
Who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And keeps his hand from doing any evil.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]3 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Do not let the son of the foreigner[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
Who has joined himself to the Lord
Speak, saying,
“The Lord has utterly separated me from His people”;
Nor let the eunuch say,
“Here I am, a dry tree.”
4 For thus says the Lord:[/FONT]
“To the eunuchs who keep My Sabbaths,
And choose what pleases Me,
And hold fast My covenant,
5 Even to them I will give in My house
And within My walls a place and a name
Better than that of sons and daughters;
I will give them an everlasting name
That shall not be cut off.
[FONT=&quot]6 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]“Also the sons of the foreigner[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him,
And to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants—
Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And holds fast My covenant—
7 Even them I will bring to My holy mountain,[/FONT]
And make them joyful in My house of prayer.
Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices
Will be accepted on My altar;
For My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations.”
Click to expand...

DHK said: ↑

Nothing here about the Sabbath. The Sabbath was given to Israel. Check Exodus 31.

--Is there some mysterious reference concerning a command to keep the Sabbath hidden in this verse that I don't know about??
Click to expand...

[FONT=&quot]1 Cor 7:19 "but [/FONT][FONT=&quot]what matters is keeping the Commandments of God[/FONT][FONT=&quot]".

[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]According to Christ in Mark 7:6-13 the TEN Commandments are included in the "Commandments of God".[/FONT][/FONT]
[/FONT]
Mark 7
7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

This is a general principle about sin. But there is nothing about keeping the Sabbath. The Sabbath was given to Israel.
Click to expand...

Until you realize that the "LAW" defines sin according to Romans 3:19-22 and 1 John 3:4.

James 2 - he who breaks one -- breaks them all.

in Christ,

Bob

BobRyan · May 15, 2015

BTW - here is a great video debate on the subject of the Sabbath.

Sorry - no SDAs in this debate from what I can detect.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdfeMkgqgrQ

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