Featured Sabbath breaking - becomes the mark of the Beast in the future

Chowmah · May 14, 2015

BobRyan said: ↑

I leave it to you to argue against the New Covenant - I don't know that anyone else here is doing that.

in Christ,

Bob
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Bobby Bobby Bobby

That was nasty. Iam not argueing against the new covenant. Bad boy Bobby

Chowmah · May 14, 2015

DEUT. 30 [4] If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will THE LORD THY GOD GATHER THEE, and from thence will he fetch thee: [5] And the Lord THY GOD WILL BRING THEE INTO THE LAND WHICH THY FATHERS POSSESSED, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers. [6] And the Lord THY GOD WILL CIRCUMCISE THINE HEART, and the heart of thy seed, to love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live. [7] And the Lord thy God will put all these curses upon thine enemies, and on them that hate thee, which persecuted thee. [8] And THOU SHALT RETURN AND OBEY THE VOICE OF THE LORD, AND DO ALL HIS COMMANDMENTS which I command thee this day.

After the gathering {in the twinkling of an eye} to the kingdom rest. Then God will give you a new heart and you will keep His commandments. Then ALL shall know the Lord

Thus fulfilling the prophecy of Hebrews 8 and Jer.31

vooks · May 14, 2015

BobRyan said: ↑

Your question was answered before you asked it - read the post please.

[FONT=&quot]Vs 1-7 – “The Sin problem that WE have” common to ALL mankind – both pagan gentiles and Jews[/FONT]
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You are not smart BobRyan
V3 "we were in bondage under the elements of the world"
V9 "how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?"

ELEMENTS had all in BONDAGE in v3
Galatians were reverting to ELEMENTS to BONDAGE in v9

They mean the same thing to all but the brain dead

I like Cambridge Bible
"the religion of the world before Christ, especially the Jewish, as an elementary religion, or a religion of childhood, full of external rites and ceremonies, all of which had a certain educational significance, but pointed beyond themselves to an age of manhood in Christ”.

BobRyan · May 14, 2015

still looking for that insightful response - to this.

BobRyan said: ↑

Originally Posted by BobRyan
Colossians 2:16 (NKJV)
16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ

Paul is not declaring the end of food, or the end of drink, or the end of sabbaths in Col 2.

Pagan days being observed in Gal 4 - where observing even one of them is to be condemned.

Bible holy days in Rom 14 - from Lev 23 list of annual holy days - where NO condemnation is allowed for observing any of them.

The point remains.

In Col 2 -- as in Mark 7 the condemnation is against "making stuff up".

Col 2
18 Let no one cheat you of your reward, taking delight in false humility and worship of angels, intruding into those things which he has not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, 19 and not holding fast to the Head, from whom all the body, nourished and knit together by joints and ligaments, grows with the increase that is from God. 20 Therefore, if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations—
21 “Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle,”
22 which all concern things which perish with the using—according to the commandments and doctrines of men?
23 These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh.

Exegesis -- take in more than 1 or two snippet verses and we see the full meaning in Col 2.

So then once again -- I will be going with "the actual Bible" on this one.

No command in Col 2 to stop eating... no command in Col 2 to stop drinking. Not even a command to stop observing the sabbaths.

Rather a command to refuse submit to "commandments of men".

Those who "imagine" that the Bible is the "commandments of men" simply don't read.

[FONT=&quot]Mark 7[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]8 For laying aside the commandment of God,ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]That is a case of Christ demonstrating the way that the magisterium is hammered "sola scriptura" in the cases where it's traditions and "doctrines of men" are at odds with scripture.[/FONT]
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BobRyan · May 14, 2015

Maybe this was it after all

BobRyan said: ↑

SDAs are not the only ones to claim that the Sabbath Commandment was given to all mankind in Eden and is still binding on us to this very day --

================================================

- D.L. Moody notices that some are opposed to the Sabbath Commandment - but notice how this sermon on the TEN Commandments also fits the summary of 7 points listed here on page 1??

BY THE
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]DWIGHT L. MOODY[/FONT][/FONT]

The Ten Commandments:
Exodus 20:2-17

.
The Fourth Commandment

Remember the Sabbath Day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: for in six days the LORD made heaven and Earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath Day, and hallowed it.

[FONT=&quot]THERE HAS BEEN an awful letting-down in this country regarding the Sabbath during the last twenty-five years, and many a man has been shorn of spiritual power, like Samson, because he is not straight on this question. Can you say that you observe the Sabbath properly? You may be a professed Christian: are you obeying this commandment? Or do you neglect the house of God on the Sabbath day, and spend your time drinking and carousing in places of vice and crime, showing contempt for God and His law? Are you ready to step into the scales? Where were you last Sabbath? How did you spend it?

I honestly believe that this commandment is just as binding today as it ever was. I have talked with men who have said that it has been abrogated, but they have never been able to point to any place in the Bible where God repealed it. When Christ was on earth, He did nothing to set it aside; He freed it from the traces under which the scribes and Pharisees had put it, and gave it its true place. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." (Mark 2:27) [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]It is just as practicable and as necessary for men today as it ever was[/FONT][FONT=&quot]- in fact, more than ever, because we live in such an intense age.

The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. The fourth commandment begins with the word remember, showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote this law on the tables of stone at Sinai. How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?

I believe that the Sabbath question today is a vital one for the whole country. It is the burning question of the present time. If you give up the Sabbath the church goes; [/FONT]
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BobRyan · May 14, 2015

Or was it this?

BobRyan said: ↑

D.L. Moody is not the only one to claim that the TEN Commandments are given to mankind in Eden and still binding on the saints today.

Baptist Confession of Faith - section 19 almost identical to the Westminster section 19 quoted above.

Notice how they both fit that 7 point summary already posted on page 1?

[FONT=&quot]Baptist Confession of Faith Section 19 link[/FONT]

Section 19:

C.H. Spurgeon's edition of the "Baptist Confession of Faith" -- [FONT=&quot]CH Spurgeon[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

“The Perpetuity of the Law of God”
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]Very great mistakes have been made about the law. Not long ago there were those about us who affirmed that the law is utterly abrogated and abolished, and they openly taught that believers were not bound to make the moral law the rule of their lives. What would have been sin in other men they counted to be no sin in themselves. From such Antinomianism as that may God deliver us. We are not under the law as the method of salvation, but we delight to see the law in the hand of Christ, and desire to obey the Lord in all things. Others have been met with who have taught that Jesus mitigated and softened down the law, and they have in effect said that the perfect law of God was too hard for imperfect beings, and therefore God has given us a milder and easier rule. These tread dangerously upon the verge of terrible error, although we believe that they are little aware of it.

Section 19 of the "Baptist Confession of Faith" .

Section 19
. The Law of God

God gave to Adam a law of universal obedience which was written in his heart, and He gave him very specific instruction about not eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. By this Adam and all his descendants were bound to personal, total, exact, and perpetual obedience, being promised life upon the fulfilling of the law, and threatened with death upon the breach of it. At the same time Adam was endued with power and ability to keep it.

The same law that was first written in the heart of man continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness after the Fall, and was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai in the TEN COMMANDMENTS, and written in two tables, the first four containing our duty towards God, and the other six, our duty to man.

Besides this law, commonly called the moral law, God was pleased do give the people of Israel ceremonial laws containing several typical ordinances. These ordinances were partly about their worship, and in them Christ was prefigured along with His attributes and qualities, His actions, His sufferings and His benefits. These ordinances also gave instructions about different moral duties. All of these ceremonial laws were appointed only until the time of reformation, when Jesus Christ the true Messiah and the only lawgiver, Who was furnished with power from the Father for this end, cancelled them and took them away.

To the people of Israel He also gave sundry judicial laws which expired when they ceased to be a nation. These are not binding on anyone now by virtue of their being part of the laws of that nation, but their general equity continue to be applicable in modern times.

The moral law ever binds to obedience everyone, justified people as well as others, and not only out of regard for the matter contained in it, but also out of respect for the authority of God the Creator, Who gave the law. Nor does Christ in the Gospel dissolve this law in any way, but He considerably strengthens our obligation to obey it __________________

Originally Posted by Baptist Confession of Faith
[FONT=&quot]Section 22.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Point 7[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]7. As it is the law of nature that in general a proportion of time, by God's appointment, should be set apart for the worship of God, so He has given in His Word a positive, moral and perpetual commandment, binding upon all men, in all ages to this effect. He has particularly appointed one day in seven for a Sabbath to be kept holy for Him. From the beginning of the world to the resurrection of Christ this was the last day of the week, and from the resurrection of Christ it was changed to the first day of the week and called the Lord's Day. This is to be continued until the end of the world as the Christian Sabbath, the observation of the last day of the week having been abolished.[/FONT]

__________________
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McCree79 · May 14, 2015

BobRyan said: ↑

Well a great many Christians will accept that the Gospel is the New Covenant and that as Christians that is the covenant we are under.

However the Gospel includes "the good news" of Christ's return and all that this includes - so you could argue that there are future aspects of the Gospel promises that are not yet a reality. However the New Covenant includes things like forgiveness of sins, and God is to be our God - we are adopted - so for those who choose to enter into the New Covenant - we have that including the LAW of God written on the heart.

Since this is actually written by Jeremiah in Jer 31:31-33 that moral Law of God has to include what Jeremiah and his readers would have known about - as LAW that defines what sin is.

Paul tells us in Romans 7 and in Romans 3 that this has to include the Ten Commandments.

Which is why I keep bringing up many of the so-called 'Sunday sources" where all of them admit that the moral law of God written on the heart includes the TEN Commandments.

in Christ,

Bob
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The Moral law that is written on our heart is the law of Christ. Not the Mosaic law.
How does one divorce the ceremonial, the civil and moral Mosaic laws? You can't. I know Covent Theology has argument for this, but I find it weak.

We are total under the law of Christ and all the commandments he gave. Which includes
1st Commandment: NT Restatement Acts 14:15
2nd: 1John 5:21
3rd: Jas 5:12
4th: I will get to this below
5th Eph 6:1
6th 1John 3:15
7th 1Cor 6:9-10
8th Eph 4:28
9th Col 3:9-10
10th Eph 5:3

What about the 4th?
Col 2:16 clearly presents that the Saturday observance requirement(law)has been nullified.
Acts 20:7 and especially 1corinthains 16:2 present the early church meeting on Sunday. The day Christ rose.
Paul taught in Romans 14, if you want the Sabbath, keep the Sabbath. If you want everyday to be the same, treat them the same. "Each person must be fully convinced", shows each Christian must follow conscience. Don't let your view with God hinder your fellowship or you walk with Christ. If Jewish Christians wanted to keep Saturday Sabbath, Paul didn't care. If Gentile Christians didn't want to observe it, Paul didn't care. What mattered was, what ever you do, do it with Love for God.

We are not under the Mosaic law in anyway. We are under the Law of Christ. 9 of the 10 Ten Commandments were reinstated. The 4th.....was nullified.

The Mosaic Law was nullified. 2 Corinthians 3:7-11 shows the fading of Mosaic law and what remains is the New Covenant(Law of Christ).

So the answer is The SDA is right and the other side is right. Per Paul, in Romans 14. Your observance of the Sabbath is up your conscience. It is up to what God as laid on your heart. After all, it is for man and not for God anyway. As Paul says in Colossians, "no one is to act as your judge in regard to.....a Sabbath Day"

*clarify one point. The SDA is fine to have a Sabbath on Saturday if they want. They are wrong to say, if you don't, it is the "Mark of the Beast"

Chowmah · May 14, 2015

So Bob
Please explain to me what you think Col.2{16} is talking about

Darrell C · May 14, 2015

Chowmah said: ↑

HEBREWS 8 [8] For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: [9] Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. [10] For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MIND, AND WRITE THEM IN THEIR HEARTS

Bob. If God put His law in our mind already, dont ya know that we would be keeping that law perfectly. And yet we are not
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You would do well to study the theme of perfection in Hebrews, and understand that the perfection you speak of is not a biblical perfection, it is a works-based doctrine which cannot be supported from Scripture.

Now consider the promise:

Ezekiel 36:22-27

King James Version (KJV)

22 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, thus saith the Lord God; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.

23 And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the Lord, saith the Lord God, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.

24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

The coming of the Comforter began the eternal indwelling of God in believers, and when we understand that the perfection that is promised in the New Covenant is also related to that actual promise coming which also is explained in the rest of the New Testament, then you might understand that those under the New Covenant begin a process of growth by which we are conformed to the image of Christ.

How you can claim to have studied Hebrews and then deny that God has written His Law on our hearts is simply astounding.

Here is a verse to consider:

2 Corinthians 3:6

King James Version (KJV)

6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Thanks for letting it be known you are not a minister of the New Covenant, and I look forward to examining the gospel you are a minister of.

Out of time for today, but I will be check back in after I have gotten ready. Look forward to discussing these issues with you.

God bless.

Darrell C · May 14, 2015

McCree79 said: ↑

Moral law that is written on our heart is the law of Christ. Not the Mosaic law.
How does one divorce the ceremonial, the civil and moral Mosaic laws? You can't. I now Covent Theology has argument for this, but I find it weak.

We are total under the law of Christ and all the commandments he gave. Which includes
1st Commandment: NT Restatement Acts 14:15
2nd: 1John 5:21
3rd: Jas 5:12
4th: I will get to this below
5th Eph 6:1
6th 1John 3:15
7th 1Cor 6:9-10
8th Eph 4:28
9th Col 3:9-10
10th Eph 5:3

What about the 4th?
Col 2:16 clearly presents that the Saturday observance requirement(law)has been nullified.
Acts 20:7 and especially 1corinthains 16:2 present the early church meeting on Sunday. The day Christ rose.
Paul taught in Romans 14, if you want the Sabbath, keep the Sabbath. If you want everyday to be the same, treat them the same. "Each person must be fully convinced", shows each Christian must follow conscience. Don't let your view with God hinder your fellowship or you walk with Christ. If Jewish Christians wanted to keep Saturday Sabbath, Paul didn't care. If Gentile Christians didn't want to observe it, Paul didn't care. What mattered was, what ever you do, do it with Love for God.

We are not under the Mosaic law in anyway. We are under the Law of Christ. 9 of the 10 Ten Commandments were reinstated. The 4th.....was nullified.

The Mosaic Law was nullified. 2 Corinthians 3:7-11 shows the fading of Mosaic law and what remains is the New Covenant(Law of Christ).

So the answer is The SDA is right and the other side is right. Per Paul, in Romans 14. Your observance of the Sabbath is up your conscience. It is up to what God as laid on your heart. After all, it is for man and not for God anyway. As Paul says in Colossians, "no one is to act as your judge in regard to.....a Sabbath Day"
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The Covenant of Law was not written on hearts:

2 Corinthians 3:2-4

King James Version (KJV)

2 Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:

3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:

The Law of God was:

Romans 2:12-15

King James Version (KJV)

12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another)

This is a distinction which is vital to our understanding of the Word of God, the Law of God, and how the two should be viewed.

God bless.

BobRyan · May 14, 2015

Chowmah said: ↑

So Bob
Please explain to me what you think Col.2{16} is talking about
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Paul says the chapter is about making stuff up and not judging based on wild things "made up" -- man-made tradition.

Some have argued that there is no way that things could have been "made up by man" when it comes to eating, drinking, sabbaths etc -- that in fact only scripture, the Word of God, is being condemned in Col 2 -- and not the man-made practice of "making stuff up".

But they ignore the fact that in Mark 2 we already have gospel proof of 'making stuff up being condemned by Christ" as it relates to Sabbath observance.

In Mark 7 we have "making stuff up being condemned by Christ" as it related so eating and drinking and things given to the church - dedicated to God.

[FONT=&quot]Mark 7[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]8 For laying aside the commandment of God,ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]That is a case of Christ demonstrating the way that the magisterium is hammered "sola scriptura" in the cases where it's traditions and "doctrines of men" are at odds with scripture.

[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]all of th[FONT=&quot]ese examples of 'makin[FONT=&quot]g stuff [FONT=&quot]up' are condemned whether they be before the cross as in Mark 2 and Mark 7 or after the cross as in Col 2.

[FONT=&quot]in Christ,

[FONT=&quot]Bob[/FONT]
[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]

McCree79 · May 14, 2015

Darrell C said: ↑

The Covenant of Law was not written on hearts:

2 Corinthians 3:2-4

King James Version (KJV)

2 Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:

3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:

The Law of God was:

Romans 2:12-15

King James Version (KJV)

12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another)

This is a distinction which is vital to our understanding of the Word of God, the Law of God, and how the two should be viewed.

God bless.
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Were you just adding clarification to my statement? You call it Law of God, I call it law of Christ. Believe we are talking about the same thing. I will check for typos on my end.

BobRyan · May 14, 2015

McCree79 said: ↑

Moral law that is written on our heart is the law of Christ. Not the Mosaic law.
How does one divorce the ceremonial, the civil and moral Mosaic laws? You can't.
Click to expand...

According to Paul you can.

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" is stated by Paul in direct contrast to the ceremonial law regarding circumcision. Here is a perfect NT example of the contrast between the two.

No wonder the "Baptist Confession of Faith" and the "Westminster Confession of Faith" both bring this detail out about distinguishing between moral law (written on the heart), ceremonial law and civil law.

Exegesis does not allow us to imagine that in Jer 31:31-33 the Law written on the heart - was understood by Jeremiah and his intended readers to be "A Law of God that did not exist".

We are total under the law of Christ and all the commandments he gave. Which includes
1st Commandment: NT Restatement Acts 14:15
2nd: 1John 5:21
3rd: Jas 5:12
4th: I will get to this below
5th Eph 6:1
6th 1John 3:15
7th 1Cor 6:9-10
8th Eph 4:28
9th Col 3:9-10
10th Eph 5:3
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James 5:12 does not quote the 3rd commandment nor mention at all "taking God's name in vain".

Rather it has to do with taking an oath.

Heb 6:13
When God made his promise to Abraham, since there was no one greater for him to swear by, he swore by himself,

In Heb 8:6-11 we are told that it is CHRIST that gave the TEN Commandments.

In John 14:15 Christ said "IF you Love Me KEEP My Commandments"
Ex 20 "Love Me and KEEP My Commandments"
John 15:14 "Love Me and KEEP My Commandments"
1John 5:1-4 "Love God and KEEP His Commandments".

Christ did not say in John 14 "Love Me and Keep the commandments I will let you know about later in the NT after I have gone to heaven".

What about the 4th?
Col 2:16 clearly presents that the Saturday observance requirement(law)has been nullified.
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On the contrary Col 2:16-17 points to the animal sacrifice based "sabbaths" that point forward to the cross - the shadows that point forward. Not the memorial that points backward - as in the weekly Sabbath.

Acts 20:7 and especially 1corinthains 16:2 present the early church meeting on Sunday.
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There is "one meeting" in Acts 20:7 on what it calls 'week day 1' not "The Lord's Day" and it is not for a weekly meeting but is called on account of Paul's departure according to the text.

A great time to say "our weekly Lord's Day meeting on week-day-1" if such a thing had existed. For in that case it would have been ONE such text in the NT instead of leaving us with none.

Which is why these guys make such a big deal about "the change"

BobRyan said: ↑

First fact -- SDAs are not the ONLY ones to recognize the magnitude of not keeping the Sabbath as God gave it in the actual Bible, the unmitigated authority and forwardness it would take to edit/change/dismiss it ---

================================================

For example Leo Trese in his book "The Faith Explained" -- commentary on the Baltimore Catechism after Vatican II -

[FONT=&quot]The Faith Explained[/FONT][FONT=&quot] (an RC commentary on the Baltimore catechism post Vatican ii) states on Page 242 that [/FONT][FONT=&quot]
====================begin short summary
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]changing the [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Lord's day[/FONT][FONT=&quot] to Sunday[/FONT][FONT=&quot] was in the power of the church since "in the gospels ..Jesus confers upon his church the power to make laws in his name". [/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]page 243

"Nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord's day From Saturday to Sunday. We know of the change only from the tradition of the Church - a fact handed down to us...that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many Non-Catholics, who say that they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and Yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord's day on the say-so of the Catholic church"

[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]====================================== begin expanded quote
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]. (from "The Faith Explained" page 243[/FONT][FONT=&quot].))

"[/FONT][FONT=&quot]we know that in the O.T it was the [/FONT][FONT=&quot]seventh day[/FONT][FONT=&quot] of the week - the Sabbath day [/FONT][FONT=&quot]- which was [/FONT][FONT=&quot]observed as the Lord's day[/FONT][FONT=&quot]. that was [/FONT][FONT=&quot]the law as God gave it[/FONT][FONT=&quot]...[/FONT][FONT=&quot]'remember to keep holy the Sabbath day[/FONT][FONT=&quot].. the early Christian church determined as the Lord's day the first day of the week. That the [/FONT][FONT=&quot]church had the right to make such a law[/FONT][FONT=&quot] is evident[/FONT][FONT=&quot]...[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]The reason for [/FONT][FONT=&quot]changing the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday[/FONT][FONT=&quot] lies in the fact that to the Christian church the first day of the week had been made double holy...[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday.[/FONT][FONT=&quot].that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many non-Catholic who say they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord's day on the say-so of the Catholic church[/FONT]

Click to expand...

in Christ,

Bob

Chowmah · May 14, 2015

BobRyan said: ↑

Paul says the chapter is about making stuff up and not judging based on wild things "made up" -- man-made tradition.

Some have argued that there is no way that things could have been "made up by man" when it comes to eating, drinking, sabbaths etc -- that in fact only scripture, the Word of God, is being condemned in Col 2 -- and not the man-made practice of "making stuff up".

But they ignore the fact that in Mark 2 we already have gospel proof of 'making stuff up being condemned by Christ" as it relates to Sabbath observance.

In Mark 7 we have "making stuff up being condemned by Christ" as it related so eating and drinking and things given to the church - dedicated to God.

[FONT=&quot]Mark 7[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]8 For laying aside the commandment of God,ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]That is a case of Christ demonstrating the way that the magisterium is hammered "sola scriptura" in the cases where it's traditions and "doctrines of men" are at odds with scripture.

[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]all of th[FONT=&quot]ese examples of 'makin[FONT=&quot]g stuff [FONT=&quot]up' are condemned whether they be before the cross as in Mark 2 and Mark 7 or after the cross as in Col 2.

[FONT=&quot]in Christ,

[FONT=&quot]Bob[/FONT]
[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
Click to expand...

So if you think Col.2{16} is talkin bout things that are made up...

COL. 2 [16] Let no man therefore judge you in MEAT, or in DRINK, or in respect of an HOLYDAY, or of the NEW MOON, or of the SABBATH DAYS:

Heres another scripture. Same exact order. Meat, drink, feast days, new moons, sabbaths

EZEKIEL 45 [17] And it shall be the prince's part to give burnt offerings, and MEAT offerings, and DRINK offerings, in the FEASTS, and in the NEW MOONS, and in the SABBATHS, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.

Is this scripture about things made up also?

McCree79 · May 14, 2015

James 5:12. In regards to Exodus 20:7

Take the name of the Lord in Vain is to fail to perform an oath which His name as been uttered. Cf Exodus 22:10; LV19:12; DT 6:13

McCree79 · May 14, 2015

BobRyan said: ↑

]

Christ did not say in John 14 "Love Me and Keep the commandments I will let you know about later in the NT after I have gone to heaven".
Click to expand...

You know Christ walked the earth, teaching his Commandments to his followers right?

vooks · May 14, 2015

BobRyan said: ↑

Curious to know if there will be an insightful response posted to this.
Click to expand...

Originally Posted by BobRyan View Post
Turns out that in Romans 14 the verses you carefully ignore

Paul addresses the observance of the Lev 23 annual holy days where "one OBSERVES one ABOVE the others and another OBSERVES all of them... he who OBSERVES the day OBSERVES it for the LORD".
Click to expand...

BobRyan you are a serial liar just like Ellen White your godess

Romans 14:5(KJV)
One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

The contrast is between esteeming a day above others and esteeming EVERY DAY alike.

It is self evident to all but the terminally brainwashed that esteeming EVERY DAY alike is indifference to days as a Gentile was wont to and NOT esteeming some of the Jewish holy days.
Why would anybody esteem some Jewish days while ignoring others?

And if this is not enough look at verse 6
Romans 14:6
He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it.
The contrast is between one regarding a day and one not regarding it, and NOT as you fantasize one regarding some Jewish days as opposed to all Jewish holy days.

BobRyan regards sabbath to the Lord
Vooks regards not the sabbath to the Lord
How is BobRyan better than me?:tonofbricks:

McCree79 · May 14, 2015

BobRyan said: ↑

On the contrary Col 2:16-17 points to the animal sacrifice based "sabbaths" that point forward to the cross - the shadows that point forward. Not the memorial that points backward - as in the weekly Sabbath.
Click to expand...

Animal sacrifice based Sabbaths???? Really???
Animal sacrifices were done on the eve of passover. If it landed on the Sabbath it was done Friday at 2pm. So no, he wasn't talking about animal sacrifice Sabbaths.

If he was addressing animal sacrifices, why did he give people a choice and not condem either? He would not allow people to believe the animal sacrifices were OK(Romans14) It would have been handled like in Hebrews.

McCree79 · May 14, 2015

BobRyan said: ↑

.

There is "one meeting" in Acts 20:7 on what it calls 'week day 1' not "The Lord's Day" and it is not for a weekly meeting but is called on account of Paul's departure according to the text.

A great time to say "our weekly Lord's Day meeting on week-day-1" if such a thing had existed. For in that case it would have been ONE such text in the NT instead of leaving us with none.

Which is why these guys make such a big deal about "the change"

in Christ,

Bob
Click to expand...

I see you skipped 1 Corinthians were Paul tells them to collect funds , when they meet on Sundays.

McCree79 · May 14, 2015

BobRyan said: ↑

According to Paul you can.

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" is stated by Paul in direct contrast to the ceremonial law regarding circumcision. Here is a perfect NT example of the contrast between the two.

No wonder the "Baptist Confession of Faith" and the "Westminster Confession of Faith" both bring this detail out about distinguishing between moral law (written on the heart), ceremonial law and civil law.

Exegesis does not allow us to imagine that in Jer 31:31-33 the Law written on the heart - was understood by Jeremiah and his intended readers to be "A Law of God that did not exist".

James 5:12 does not quote the 3rd commandment nor mention at all "taking God's name in vain".

Rather it has to do with taking an oath.

Heb 6:13
When God made his promise to Abraham, since there was no one greater for him to swear by, he swore by himself,

In Heb 8:6-11 we are told that it is CHRIST that gave the TEN Commandments.

In John 14:15 Christ said "IF you Love Me KEEP My Commandments"
Ex 20 "Love Me and KEEP My Commandments"
John 15:14 "Love Me and KEEP My Commandments"
1John 5:1-4 "Love God and KEEP His Commandments".

Christ did not say in John 14 "Love Me and Keep the commandments I will let you know about later in the NT after I have gone to heaven".

On the contrary Col 2:16-17 points to the animal sacrifice based "sabbaths" that point forward to the cross - the shadows that point forward. Not the memorial that points backward - as in the weekly Sabbath.

There is "one meeting" in Acts 20:7 on what it calls 'week day 1' not "The Lord's Day" and it is not for a weekly meeting but is called on account of Paul's departure according to the text.

A great time to say "our weekly Lord's Day meeting on week-day-1" if such a thing had existed. For in that case it would have been ONE such text in the NT instead of leaving us with none.

Which is why these guys make such a big deal about "the change"

in Christ,

Bob
Click to expand...

....and as far as the RCC changing the day to Sunday. Too much evidence well before RCC that early church was meeting on Sundays. Writings of Justin Martyr is just one example. ....plus Paul in 1Corthinians.

Regardless though. Paul made it clear in Romans 14 on how you can handle the feats and sabbath of Exodus 23. Which is, not required to observe the law.

I do apologize for breaking up your post into many and replying. I am running Tapatalk on my phone and can't find an easy way to post between quotes like you and others do.

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