Are we under the obligation of the OT Law, or are we under the Yoke of Christ? Paul rebuked Peter for trying to live under the Jewish Law, after now under NT Grace!
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Sabbath Keepers
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Jesus told us to take on his yoke, and Paul rebuked peter for trying to keep the OT Law yoked on the NT Gentile believers in Jesus!
Jesus kept perfectly the Law for us, so God has taken that yoke of all now in Christ!
True He kept it perfectly, but the Law was and still is God's indictment against fallen humanity.
Romans 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Rather than accepting the grace of God many "religious"attempt a shorthand keeping of a redacted Law of Moses (which is folly in the first place - one keeps the whole law, every jot and tittle or receives the curse of the law and the sentence of death).
Paul really rebuked peter on this issue, as peter was living a snow under Grace, but changed back to living under the Law for a time!
Saved-By-Grace
Well-Known Member
Interesting that Exodus 20:8-11 is never "re-affirmed" in the New Testament, the other 9 Commandments are. Why is this, if, as some argue, is the right day to worship the Lord?
Good point, as you stated, all but 1 Commandment was brought back over to us in the New Covenant now!
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Exodus 20:8-11 - rest.
Lev 23:2-3 - Holy Convocation (Praise and worship)
Is 66:23 - holy convocation (Praise and worship) - for all eternity after the cross - in New Earth
Bible study and evangelism -- not secular activity
Isaiah 58:13-14
“If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath,
From doing your pleasure on My holy day,
And call the Sabbath a delight,
The holy day of the Lord honorable,
And shall honor Him, not doing your own ways,
Nor finding your own pleasure,
Nor speaking your own words,
14 Then you shall delight yourself in the Lord;
Mark 2:27 - "Sabbath was made for mankind" - specifically setting scope for Sabbath.
Isaiah 56:6-8 Gentiles specifically singled out for Sabbath keeping
Acts 18:4 "EVERY Sabbath" both Jews and gentiles gather for Gospel preaching and worship in the Synagogue
Acts 15 - the Crisis for the NT solved in part because "Moses is preached every Sabbath in the Synagogues"
Bible texts do count as scripture -- right?
Lev 23:32 - from evening to evening shall you celebrate the Sabbath
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Until you read the Bible to see for yourself.
(Less creative writing - more Bible please.)
the command "do not take God's name in vain" Exodus 20:7 is never mentioned in the New Testament - it is the only one never quoted from or mentioned in the New Testament.
By contrast the Sabbath Commandment is both mentioned and quoted from several times in the NT.
True - Exodus 20:7 "do not take God's name in vain" is the only one of the TEN that is never quoted in the NT - not even in part.
Which of course is a meaningless-bit-of-fluff for trying to delete that commandment - but some folks like to play that "game" with the Bible.
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BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Jesus quotes from the TEN commandments in Matthew 19
Jesus condemns the efforts of the traditions of man - to downsize even one of the Ten Commandments in Mark 7:6-13.
The point remains.
Saved-By-Grace
Well-Known Member
Bottom line is. No longer is Saturday the day for worshiping the Lord, But Sunday, because it is the Day Jesus Christ Rose from the dead. Saturday for the Jews; Sunday for Christians.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
And under the New Covenant "I will write MY LAW on their heart and mind" -- LAW known to Jeremiah that included God's TEN commandments.
As all of these Christian scholars and groups also admit.
The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism.
Until you actually read what they wrote - where they all admit that the Bible Sabbath -- the one given by God in the actual Bible - is Saturday.
The point remains.
The commandment says "the 7th day is the Sabbath of the LORD" Ex 20:10
No text in OT or NT says "and now week-day-1 is the Sabbath of the LORD" - and we all know it.
No text in OT or NT says "and now week-day-1 is the LORD's Day replacing the Sabbath" and we all know it.
No text in OT or NT says "and now week-day-1 is the LORD's day" and we all know it.
But we do have Mark 7:6-13 condemning the efforts of the traditions of man to edit/downsize-alter the "Commandment of God" -- and we all know it.
Working with the easiest most obvious Bible details known to all of us -- the facts are pretty clear.
Saved-By-Grace
Well-Known Member
Read: Matthew 12 (What do you make of this?)
1 At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn, and to eat.
2 But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.
3 But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him; 4 How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests?
5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?
6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.
7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.
8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.
"And he said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath." (Mark 2:27)
NOTE:
"Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ" (Colossians 2:16-17)
Saved-By-Grace
Well-Known Member
Trouble is with you guys and your "axes to grind", even if the Lord Jesus Christ appeared and told you Himself, that the correct day for worship is Sunday, you will still want to argue! Does it not strike you as rather strange, the 99% of the Church from NT times, worshiped on Sunday, which is the Lord's Day, because Jesus Rose on this day. And yet the 1% like the SDA's are still trying to return to the OT Law on the Sabbath? So you think that the greater majority of the Christian Church for almost 2000 years, have got this wrong, and you guys have it right? It is no wonder that the SDA are deluded by this false teaching, that their founder, Mrs White, a false "prophet" took it upon herself to denounce all Sunday worshipers as being deceived, and hell-bound. Such is the madness of this woman as this sect!
Felipe Rios
Member
Amen
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Hint -- we did not start this thread - someone else did. We are doing them the courtesy of responding -- sola scriptura.
As you seem to argue that this method does not fit your preference - I respond that you have free will and can choose that if you wish.
This is where you demonstrate that you are not even reading the posts or following the discussion at all. The entire point of the Bible Sabbath group is the long standing complaint is that those on your side of this discussion have NO scripture saying "the correct day for worship is Sunday" and we all know it. Even you know it as you never manage to quote one.
You're "supposed to be saying" that you HAVE a text and your text reads
"the correct day for worship is Sunday"
or "the correct day for worship is week-day-1"
"the correct day for worship is week-day-1 now called the Lord's day"
or "we meet every week day one for worship"
Instead you go off into a fiction about "What if God did say something like that" --
you might as well say "what if God said the Pope is the true head of the Christian church" -- having no text to say it - you then engage in that sort of creative writing to make your case?? seriously??
With all that creative writing -- you don't even read your own posts critically?
Saved-By-Grace
Well-Known Member
So, do you agree with Mrs White, that all those who worship on Sunday, instead of Saturday, will receive the mark of the beast, and end up in eternal punishment? Is this what she taught also "inspired", as she claimed her writings were? Can you give ONE text from the Bible, that says what this woman did on Sunday worship? If not, then you owe all those who worship the Lord God of the Bible, on the RIGHT Day, Sunday, a massive apology. If you agree with her, the you must be banned from BB
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
The Bible predicts that the mark of the beast scenario will play out in the future as Rev 13 and 14 state. This is irrefutable
Rev 14 contrasts the saints who "keep the commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" -- with -- those who receive the mark of the beast - and it says this is all future. -- this is irrefutable
That is a prediction about what is in our future -- -- this is irrefutable
Those who receive the mark of the beast are sinning in that future scenario and 1 John 3:4 says "Sin IS transgression of the LAW" -- -- this is irrefutable
"You" apparently "predict" that the future being described in that text will not include the sin of Sabbath breaking
Ellen White claimed that God gave her a vision of that future event and that it most certainly did include that sin, and that Sabbath commandment is in fact one of the TEN Commandments written on the heart under the New Covenant (as even most non-SDA groups will admit to one degree or another when they admit that it is the TEN that God writes on the heart.)
We will see which of the two of you are making the correct prediction about the future when we get to it - for now I think Ellen White's message from God will end up being correct and your wild-guess about that future will be less-than.
Time will tell who is right.
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And what are the New Covenant commandments of God? They are not the commandments of Moses which bring the knowledge of sin, a curse and death if you fail in just one of over 600 of them.
John 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
Indeed time will tell.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
According to the "Baptist Confession of Faith" Section 19 they include God's Commandments -- God's Ten Commandments.
They say that because they know that the New Covenant is found in Jeremiah 31:31-33 and when he write that God will "write My Law on their heart and mind" that term has to be taken in terms of what Jeremiah and HIS readers would have known as "the LAW of God" the moral law that defines what sin is -
And that means the TEN Commandments would be included in it. Both the "Baptist Confession of Faith" section 19 and the "Westminster Confession of Faith" Section 19 - admit to that Bible detail and thus uphold the practice of "exegesis" when interpreting Jeremiah 31:31-33.
In the NT "SIN IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4
In the NT "the LAW defines what sin is - it brings a knowledge of what sin is" Romans 3:19-21
In the NT that SAME law CONTINUEs to " hold ALL the world accountable to God" Rom 3:19-21 showing that all need the Gospel -- instead of being "deleted"
Thus Jeremiah says God will "Write His LAW on the heart and mind" when defining what the New Covenant IS
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