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Sabbath "Remains" for the People of God Heb 4
- Thread starter BobRyan
- Start date
T
TorahKeeper
Guest
sounds like you are the only one.
T
TorahKeeper
Guest
You can justify anything cant you? I guess the disobedient will do as they please, when they please.
Another pharisaical accusation.Originally posted by TorahKeeper:
You can justify anything cant you? I guess the disobedient will do as they please, when they please.
I have supported scripture which supports my position. You have provided no scripture for yours. And then you call me disobedient.
T
TorahKeeper
Guest
I have provided scripture, you have twisted it to your own interpertation. Another name calling session, typical modern day christian. Full of hatred. Luckily I am used to it.
T
TorahKeeper
Guest
I'm not angry just disappointed in how little people know.
yeshua4me2
New Member
again not one historical record for the frist 1000 years of church history, says that christians kept the jewish sabbath. there are plenty that say they (christians) met on the first day of the week.
Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in eating, or in drinking, or with respect to a feast day or a new moon or Shabbat,
exempts us christians from the Jewish sabbath law.
again the sabbath is for jews
Mal 4:4 "Remember the Torah of Moshe my servant, which I commanded to him in Chorev for all Yisra'el, even statutes and ordinances.
for all Yisra'el not for all nations
Why would put the new wine of Christianity into the old wineskin of Judaism?
Jews should be Jews, Gentiles should be gentiles.
both can be christian.
Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in eating, or in drinking, or with respect to a feast day or a new moon or Shabbat,
exempts us christians from the Jewish sabbath law.
again the sabbath is for jews
Mal 4:4 "Remember the Torah of Moshe my servant, which I commanded to him in Chorev for all Yisra'el, even statutes and ordinances.
for all Yisra'el not for all nations
Why would put the new wine of Christianity into the old wineskin of Judaism?
Jews should be Jews, Gentiles should be gentiles.
both can be christian.
T
TorahKeeper
Guest
All those who are redeemed are Abraham's seed so if you are saved the you are a descendant of Abraham, which includes Issac, and Jacob. So all of the promises and requirements for them and their descendants are for you as well. God warned what would happen if you disobey. Please be obedient, its for your own good.
yeshua4me2
New Member
judaizers always skip col 2:16
yeshua4me2
New Member
and to be a desendant of abraham you have to have jewish dna, are you saying that (by your, torahkeeper, definition) when a person gets saved they become desendants of Abraham? if so there sould be genetic evidence, as God cannot be a liar.
again i have listed 85 questions (as a whole) that disprove jewish lawkeeping for christians.
thankyou and God Bless
torahkeeper do you keep the torah? if so when was the last time you stoned a person for breaking hte sabbath? i suspect you never have, and therefore DO NOT keep the Torah, as the commandments are the same as commandments of the "never ending 10".
again sabbath is for Jews not for Gentiles
if it were Paul or Peter or any other Epistle writer would have said so.
heb 4 is not an endorsment of sabatarianism, but rahter an explinatin of why the Jews had a sabbath, and because we are humans we need to rest too. (clearly i am skipping the future rest implied).
as malachi says the sabbath (weekly jewish sabbath) is for Isreal, not for all nations
exodus also says that it is for all "your" (Isreal) generations, not for all nations generations.
thankyou and God Bless
again i have listed 85 questions (as a whole) that disprove jewish lawkeeping for christians.
thankyou and God Bless
torahkeeper do you keep the torah? if so when was the last time you stoned a person for breaking hte sabbath? i suspect you never have, and therefore DO NOT keep the Torah, as the commandments are the same as commandments of the "never ending 10".
again sabbath is for Jews not for Gentiles
if it were Paul or Peter or any other Epistle writer would have said so.
heb 4 is not an endorsment of sabatarianism, but rahter an explinatin of why the Jews had a sabbath, and because we are humans we need to rest too. (clearly i am skipping the future rest implied).
as malachi says the sabbath (weekly jewish sabbath) is for Isreal, not for all nations
exodus also says that it is for all "your" (Isreal) generations, not for all nations generations.
thankyou and God Bless
You have shown me no scripture whatsoever that refutes my example of how I choose to keep the Sabbath. None. Zip. Nada. YOu say over and over that you've provided scripture, but none of your posts contain scripture that supports your position.Originally posted by TorahKeeper:
I have provided scripture, you have twisted it to your own interpertation.
That's very amusing, considering that is it you who freely wielded the "lawbreaker" labelling gun on anyone who disagrees with your position.Another name calling session, typical modern day christian. Full of hatred. Luckily I am used to it.
Originally posted by DHK:
Since you do not know what kind of church I am in I will assume that you have rejected all churches, completely. For the church that I am in is very Godly, composed completely of baptized born-again believers.Originally posted by TorahKeeper:
[qb] I am a Bond Servant of the Messiah Yeshua. I have forsaken the un-godly church system you are in.
Consider for a moment that every book past the Book of Acts (which tells the history of local churches) was either written to a local church or a pastor of a local church, except the Book of Revelation, which has 7 letters to 7 individual churches. God's ordained institution that he is blessing in this day and age is the local church. That same institution which you have labeled ungodly. So what kind of system do you belong to if it is not the "ungodly" institution that God Himself has ordained?
DHK
T
TorahKeeper
Guest
In case you didnt read the post or did not understand, we are not ging to communicate anymore. You cannot handle the intensity of the debate so we will not communicate anymore.
In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it. But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them; I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, [and that] ye shall not prolong [your] days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it. I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, [that] I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, [and] that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he [is] thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them. Deut 30
But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you. Jer 7:23
Which I commanded your fathers in the day [that] I brought them forth out of the land of Egypt, from the iron furnace, saying, Obey my voice, and do them, according to all which I command you: so shall ye be my people, and I will be your God: Jer 11:4
Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them; Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave [their] heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but [that] thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law. Act 21:23-24
If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, [from] doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking [thine own] words:
Is 58:13..
Is that enough??
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it. But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them; I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, [and that] ye shall not prolong [your] days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it. I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, [that] I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, [and] that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he [is] thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them. Deut 30
But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you. Jer 7:23
Which I commanded your fathers in the day [that] I brought them forth out of the land of Egypt, from the iron furnace, saying, Obey my voice, and do them, according to all which I command you: so shall ye be my people, and I will be your God: Jer 11:4
Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them; Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave [their] heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but [that] thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law. Act 21:23-24
If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, [from] doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking [thine own] words:
Is 58:13..
Is that enough??
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Scripture is certainly good. I always like scripture.
Torahkeeper, I take it that your whole point is to obey all of the laws of the OT or loose your salvation (if you ever had any), am I wrong?
I am simply trying to define your true beliefs--please, bear with me.
Torahkeeper, I take it that your whole point is to obey all of the laws of the OT or loose your salvation (if you ever had any), am I wrong?
I am simply trying to define your true beliefs--please, bear with me.
T
TorahKeeper
Guest
I am not advocating that. Salvation is produced by faith in the sacrifice of the Messiah. Blessings are produced by obedience to God's Commandments.
Phillip, I don't think that's what Torahkeepeer is saying at all. Hes simply saying that we're required to keep all of God's laws, and if we don't we're being disobedient. Disobedience and unsaved are two separate issues.
Where I disagree with Torahkeeper is on the necessity of keeping certain laws. There are three different kinds of laws in the OT: Civil laws, moral laws, and priestly (rabbinnic) laws. The moral laws are still in full force today, and we're required to keep them. The civil laws were for the Israelites alone for their own governance, and we've never been obligated to keep them. Rabbinnic laws were given to set the Jews apart from others. Rabbinnic laws were mandatory for Jews only, and became nonmandatory after Jesus was on the earth. Most Jews still keep some of them as a matter of faith application, but many of the rabbinnic laws are no longer observed by practicing Jews.
Where I disagree with Torahkeeper is on the necessity of keeping certain laws. There are three different kinds of laws in the OT: Civil laws, moral laws, and priestly (rabbinnic) laws. The moral laws are still in full force today, and we're required to keep them. The civil laws were for the Israelites alone for their own governance, and we've never been obligated to keep them. Rabbinnic laws were given to set the Jews apart from others. Rabbinnic laws were mandatory for Jews only, and became nonmandatory after Jesus was on the earth. Most Jews still keep some of them as a matter of faith application, but many of the rabbinnic laws are no longer observed by practicing Jews.
T
TorahKeeper
Guest
Rabbinnic Laws are creations of man, not God. God gave the Law forever, forever is a simple word to understand. No laws have been abolished.