Salvation: A Gift or a Reward?

[preacher4truth]

Calvinists and all Christians confess that salvation is a free gift. I am leaving out cultic teachings and beliefs that expressly believe that salvation is of works, i.e. Mormonism, Catholicism, SAD, JW's &c.

However, there are teachings that turn this gift into a reward that are outside of these cultic groups and thought of as orthodox in belief systems.

One specific theology, and other nominal belief systems that make this gift a reward is found within the teachings of Arminian theology and among some non-Calvinist theologies.

Arminian theology teaches a cooperative salvation, that is, that man cooperates with God, then chooses salvation, and then is rewarded salvation. They would call it gifted, but the actual teaching denies this.

Let's be clear that this does not show salvation as a gift, but as a reward for doing something, a reward for cooperating, and a reward for choosing.

Scripturally it is that God has gifted us faith, which is evidence of salvation, and we know Scripturally that He quickens us and we realize then we are saved. Nothing in our choosing makes it effectual or real, as it is really God that chose us, and our response is simply belief.

Yet even at the moment of salvation it is simply an acknowledgment that He called us, chose us, and saved us. We come to the realization that He did all of the saving, each and every part, thus we claim and hold to 'monergism' not 'synergism', and salvation is reckoned, truly, as a gift, not a reward for action, choosing, or cooperating.

When one claims it is by our cooperation, then it claims a person has done a thing, and in response are given salvation for cooperation. This shows that salvation is not soley dependent upon God alone, but that our decision is necessary, and only after we decide are we saved, rendering the gift a reward. I cannot see how salvation is a gift within this thinking and teaching.

 

[Iconoclast]

here is a key verse that indicates if we have to add anything to what God does ..it will not be by grace.

Romans 4:4
Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.


And later on paul says this:
5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.


It seems like election and grace go together:thumbs:

29because to you it was granted, on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in him, but also on behalf of him to suffer

it is the same word for graced

 

[marke]

Calvinists and all Christians confess that salvation is a free gift. I am leaving out cultic teachings and beliefs that expressly believe that salvation is of works, i.e. Mormonism, Catholicism, SAD, JW's &c.
However, there are teachings that turn this gift into a reward that are outside of these cultic groups and thought of as orthodox in belief systems.
One specific theology, and other nominal belief systems that make this gift a reward is found within the teachings of Arminian theology and among some non-Calvinist theologies.
Arminian theology teaches a cooperative salvation, that is, that man cooperates with God, then chooses salvation, and then is rewarded salvation. They would call it gifted, but the actual teaching denies this.
Let's be clear that this does not show salvation as a gift, but as a reward for doing something, a reward for cooperating, and a reward for choosing.
Scripturally it is that God has gifted us faith, which is evidence of salvation, and we know Scripturally that He quickens us and we realize then we are saved. Nothing in our choosing makes it effectual or real, as it is really God that chose us, and our response is simply belief.
Yet even at the moment of salvation it is simply an acknowledgment that He called us, chose us, and saved us. We come to the realization that He did all of the saving, each and every part, thus we claim and hold to 'monergism' not 'synergism', and salvation is reckoned, truly, as a gift, not a reward for action, choosing, or cooperating.
When one claims it is by our cooperation, then it claims a person has done a thing, and in response are given salvation for cooperation. This shows that salvation is not soley dependent upon God alone, but that our decision is necessary, and only after we decide are we saved, rendering the gift a reward. I cannot see how salvation is a gift within this thinking and teaching.

I draw an illustration from a commercial I saw. God is standing in a room full of little girls, and He announces to the whole room, "I'm giving a big party, and whosoever will may come!" His only stipulation is that each one get an embossed personalized invitation, which He begings to hand out individually. There are twenty girls in the room and 7 get invitations but then there are no more invitations for any of the rest. "Too bad girls," an attendant says, " but you can't come, because you did not get an invitation." The girls say, "But He said whosoever will may come!" The attendant says, Yes, but He wasn't talking about you.

Some Christians allow themselves to think God is like this for some reason. That is not true, however, because God is not willing that any should perish, but wills for ALL to come unto the knowledge of the truth. Trying to redefine the word "all" to suit wrong doctrine will not be allowed by God.

 

[preacher4truth]

here is a key verse that indicates if we have to add anything to what God does ..it will not be by grace.

Romans 4:4
Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.


And later on paul says this:
5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.


It seems like election and grace go together:thumbs:

it is the same word for graced

Thus it is all a gift, not a reward for action. :thumbsup:

 

[preacher4truth]

I draw an illustration from a commercial I saw. God is standing in a room full of little girls, and He announces to the whole room, "I'm giving a big party, and whosoever will may come!" His only stipulation is that each one get an embossed personalized invitation, which He begings to hand out individually. There are twenty girls in the room and 7 get invitations but then there are no more invitations for any of the rest. "Too bad girls," an attendant says, " but you can't come, because you did not get an invitation." The girls say, "But He said whosoever will may come!" The attendant says, Yes, but He wasn't talking about you.

Some Christians allow themselves to think God is like this for some reason. That is not true, however, because God is not willing that any should perish, but wills for ALL to come unto the knowledge of the truth. Trying to redefine the word "all" to suit wrong doctrine will not be allowed by God.

Paul differs with you in 2 Timothy 2:8-10, wherein he preaches for the sake of those who are elect, and these are a specific people, for whom he suffered.

Salvation is a gift, not a reward for cooperation. He saves His people from their sins.

 

[mandym]

Arminian theology teaches a cooperative salvation, that is, that man cooperates with God, then chooses salvation, and then is rewarded salvation. They would call it gifted, but the actual teaching denies this.

This is your spin on it but not based in reality. It is a false misrepresentation of the view of others.

 

[marke]

Thus it is all a gift, not a reward for action. :thumbsup:

God makes a distinction between faith and works, so whosoever believeth (by faith) in Him should not perish. Some Christians mix up faith and works and say 'believing' is a work, when that is simply not so. Look at Rom. 4:5

"But to him that worketh not, but believeth on Him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness." Would some Christians prefer a 'better' wording like

"But to him that worketh not and believeth not (because that is also a work), God gives faith to some and withholds it from others for reasons known only to Him"?

 

[Ed B]

Calvinists and all Christians confess that salvation is a free gift. I am leaving out cultic teachings and beliefs that expressly believe that salvation is of works, i.e. Mormonism, Catholicism, SAD, JW's &c.

However, there are teachings that turn this gift into a reward that are outside of these cultic groups and thought of as orthodox in belief systems.

.....

I have a good friend who is a Church of Christ elder. Good guy and all but while we have many things in common, their soteriology is clearly works-based. Salvation, in as much as they would recognize the concept, is a reward. In my opinion they take the New Testament and make it a new Law maybe as much as the clothesline-doctrine, Pentecostal Holiness. Many would consider them within the orthodox Christian community but sometimes I wonder.

 

[preacher4truth]

I have a good friend who is a Church of Christ elder. Good guy and all but while we have many things in common, their soteriology is clearly works-based. Salvation, in as much as they would recognize the concept, is a reward. In my opinion they take the New Testament and make it a new Law maybe as much as the clothesline-doctrine, Pentecostal Holiness. Many would consider them within the orthodox Christian community but sometimes I wonder.

Good assessment, as I have family members who were/are CoC.

My grandfather on his death bed requested to see me, a long time CoC who debated my belief for a while. I went to see him when he was about to die of liver cancer in a bed in his home. I asked him about how comfortable he was with baptismal regeneration and works, which I was emboldened to do. He said he wasn't comfortable in that, and wanted to trust only in Christ alone. In the other room sat family, all CoC, casting wicked looks my way, while he asked me to pray with him to confess trust in Christ alone. He squeezed my hand hard while we prayed his acknowledment for such. He died very soon after, I think it was the next day, but I cannot recall as this was well over 20 years back. The bottom line is, he left this world with faith in Christ alone.

We must be cautious with our teaching as it is so easy to say salvation is a gift within a statement of faith, while at the same time in our teachings showing it to be a reward because we cooperated, acted &c.

- Peace

 

[marke]

I have a good friend who is a Church of Christ elder. Good guy and all but while we have many things in common, their soteriology is clearly works-based. Salvation, in as much as they would recognize the concept, is a reward. In my opinion they take the New Testament and make it a new Law maybe as much as the clothesline-doctrine, Pentecostal Holiness. Many would consider them within the orthodox Christian community but sometimes I wonder.

Most baptists I know believe salvation is given to any and all who "receive Him (Jesus)" as in John 1:12, which is why God gives them "power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on His name."

Do elders in the Church of Christ believe salvation is given to those who 'believe', or do they think salvation is given to those who 'work'?

 

[preacher4truth]

God makes a distinction between faith and works, so whosoever believeth (by faith) in Him should not perish. Some Christians mix up faith and works and say 'believing' is a work, when that is simply not so. Look at Rom. 4:5

"But to him that worketh not, but believeth on Him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness." Would some Christians prefer a 'better' wording like

"But to him that worketh not and believeth not (because that is also a work), God gives faith to some and withholds it from others for reasons known only to Him"?

Belief is a proof of salvation, not a cause. Grace is the cause.

He shows mercy to whom He wills to show mercy. Doesn't He know better than we?

 

[preacher4truth]

This is your spin on it but not based in reality. It is a false misrepresentation of the view of others.

Not at all. It's a Biblical 'spin.'

It's also a concise representation of the beliefs of others. The logical end of cooperation is reward, not a gift.

 

[mandym]

It's also a concise representation of the beliefs of others. The logical end of cooperation is reward, not a gift.

It is your spin based on your logic and it is rude and false.

 

[seekingthetruth]

Calvinists and all Christians confess that salvation is a free gift. I am leaving out cultic teachings and beliefs that expressly believe that salvation is of works, i.e. Mormonism, Catholicism, SAD, JW's &c.

However, there are teachings that turn this gift into a reward that are outside of these cultic groups and thought of as orthodox in belief systems.

One specific theology, and other nominal belief systems that make this gift a reward is found within the teachings of Arminian theology and among some non-Calvinist theologies.

Arminian theology teaches a cooperative salvation, that is, that man cooperates with God, then chooses salvation, and then is rewarded salvation. They would call it gifted, but the actual teaching denies this.

Let's be clear that this does not show salvation as a gift, but as a reward for doing something, a reward for cooperating, and a reward for choosing.

Scripturally it is that God has gifted us faith, which is evidence of salvation, and we know Scripturally that He quickens us and we realize then we are saved. Nothing in our choosing makes it effectual or real, as it is really God that chose us, and our response is simply belief.

Yet even at the moment of salvation it is simply an acknowledgment that He called us, chose us, and saved us. We come to the realization that He did all of the saving, each and every part, thus we claim and hold to 'monergism' not 'synergism', and salvation is reckoned, truly, as a gift, not a reward for action, choosing, or cooperating.

When one claims it is by our cooperation, then it claims a person has done a thing, and in response are given salvation for cooperation. This shows that salvation is not soley dependent upon God alone, but that our decision is necessary, and only after we decide are we saved, rendering the gift a reward. I cannot see how salvation is a gift within this thinking and teaching.

The whole premise of your thread is a [snip] and I have reported it to the mods for closure.

John

 

[Amy.G]

Most baptists I know believe salvation is given to any and all who "receive Him (Jesus)" as in John 1:12, which is why God gives them "power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on His name."

Do elders in the Church of Christ believe salvation is given to those who 'believe', or do they think salvation is given to those who 'work'?

CoC's think salvation is given to those who are dunked.

 

[seekingthetruth]

When you accept God's gift, it is still a gift.

You presumption of non-DoG believers is a lie

John

 

[preacher4truth]

The whole premise of your thread is a lie and I have reported it to the mods for closure.

John

Not a problem at all, but I've lied about nothing. Thing is John, you've been out of control on many threads slandering others, name calling, pejoratives. You really need to hang all of that up. It's unbecoming of any Christian.

 

[preacher4truth]

When you accept God's gift, it is still a gift.

You presumption of non-DoG believers is a lie

John

Sort of, but way off track. He chose us.

Salvation is a gift, not a reward.

 

[DHK]

IT (Salvation) is the gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boast. (Eph.2:8,9)

 

[Iconoclast]

IT (Salvation) is the gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boast. (Eph.2:8,9)

:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs::applause: