Salvation: A Gift or a Reward?

[matt wade]

So if you decide to show up at your birthday party, are all your gifts now rewards?

 

[preacher4truth]

So if you decide to show up at your birthday party, are all your gifts now rewards?

By throwing the party others will bring a gift, which is a reward for the celebration. So they are not really gifts, but rewards for an earmark of years.

But your illustration is not Scripture, but subjective and subsequently falls short.

Salvation is 100% a gift, not a reward for choosing nor for cooperating.

 

[matt wade]

By throwing the party others will bring a gift, which is a reward for the celebration. So they are not really gifts, but rewards for an earmark of years.

But your illustration is not Scripture, but subjective and subsequently falls short.

Salvation is 100% a gift, not a reward for choosing nor for cooperating.

Yes, I agree that salvation is 100% a gift. A gift is something one can choose to accept or reject.

Maybe we should start a topic that exposes the truth of Calvinism. We could call it "Salvation: A Gift or an Attribute?". In Calvinism one has no choice on receiving the gift. It is something that is simply assigned to random people as an attribute.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

I draw an illustration from a commercial I saw. God is standing in a room full of little girls, and He announces to the whole room, "I'm giving a big party, and whosoever will may come!" His only stipulation is that each one get an embossed personalized invitation, which He begings to hand out individually. There are twenty girls in the room and 7 get invitations but then there are no more invitations for any of the rest. "Too bad girls," an attendant says, " but you can't come, because you did not get an invitation." The girls say, "But He said whosoever will may come!" The attendant says, Yes, but He wasn't talking about you.

Some Christians allow themselves to think God is like this for some reason. That is not true, however, because God is not willing that any should perish, but wills for ALL to come unto the knowledge of the truth. Trying to redefine the word "all" to suit wrong doctrine will not be allowed by God.

Your illustration is entirely wrong. God gives out an invitation to everyone, but no one wants to come. Then God grabs His elect by the hand and drags them to the party. 'Then the Master said to the servant, "Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in!"' (Luke 14:23).

Steve

 

[seekingthetruth]

Yes, I agree that salvation is 100% a gift. A gift is something one can choose to accept or reject.

Maybe we should start a topic that exposes the truth of Calvinism. We could call it "Salvation: A Gift or an Attribute?". In Calvinism one has no choice on receiving the gift. It is something that is simply assigned to random people as an attribute.

How can it be a gift if you are forced to take it?

 

[matt wade]

How can it be a gift if you are forced to take it?

It can't be.

 

[seekingthetruth]

Your illustration is entirely wrong. God gives out an invitation to everyone, but no one wants to come. Then God grabs His elect by the hand and drags them to the party. 'Then the Master said to the servant, "Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in!"' (Luke 14:23).

Steve

Why would the predestined need to be compelled? isnt that contradictory to DoG?

if person has to be compelled, dont they have to make a choice to respond? if not, then why is compulison needed?

 

[Amy.G]

Yes, I agree that salvation is 100% a gift. A gift is something one can choose to accept or reject.

But if you reject it, you have no gift.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Why would the predestined need to be compelled? isnt that contradictory to DoG?

No. That is entirely in line with the DoG. That's why they call it 'irresistible grace.' If it wasn't irresistible then the elect would resist it.

if a person has to be compelled, dont they [sic] have to make a choice to respond? if not, then why is compulsion needed?

If someone is compelled, he doesn't have a choice qed.

Steve

 

[mandym]

But if you reject it, you have no gift.

And if you reject salvation you have no salvation. A gift is both given and received freely else it is not a gift. Romans 6:23 destroys the irresistible grace.

 

[marke]

Belief is a proof of salvation, not a cause. Grace is the cause.

He shows mercy to whom He wills to show mercy. Doesn't He know better than we?

Are you saying God withholds mercy from some for a reason which is related to why He shows mercy to others, or is there no reason for the distinction except that God does as He wants to? Is refusing to show mercy something He delights in?

 

[webdog]

But if you reject it, you have no gift.

You don't have the gift, but it still remains a gift.

 

[marke]

Sort of, but way off track. He chose us.

Salvation is a gift, not a reward.

Do you know why, then, that God decides to only hand out gifts to a few instead of to everyone?

 

[matt wade]

But if you reject it, you have no gift.

You are correct. "You", the person who rejected it, don't have the gift. The gift still exists though.

 

[preacher4truth]

Do you know why, then, that God decides to only hand out gifts to a few instead of to everyone?

You mean, why He shows mercy to whom He wills?

 

[preacher4truth]

IT (Salvation) is the gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boast. (Eph.2:8,9)

Yep!

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

[preacher4truth]

Birthday 'gifts' are rewards, not gifts.

 

[seekingthetruth]

No. That is entirely in line with the DoG. That's why they call it 'irresistible grace.' If it wasn't irresistible then the elect would resist it.


If someone is compelled, he doesn't have a choice qed.

Steve

You can try to compell me to believe your unholy drivel, but I do have a choice to reject. In fact, i am 'compelled" to reject it

John

 

[DHK]

Calvinists and all Christians confess that salvation is a free gift. I am leaving out cultic teachings and beliefs that expressly believe that salvation is of works, i.e. Mormonism, Catholicism, SAD, JW's &c.

So do most non-Cals.

However, there are teachings that turn this gift into a reward that are outside of these cultic groups and thought of as orthodox in belief systems.

No, that would be the cults.

One specific theology, and other nominal belief systems that make this gift a reward is found within the teachings of Arminian theology and among some non-Calvinist theologies.

I don't know of anyone on the board that believes that way.

Arminian theology teaches a cooperative salvation, that is, that man cooperates with God, then chooses salvation, and then is rewarded salvation. They would call it gifted, but the actual teaching denies this.

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.
Faith is necessary for salvation. However faith is not a work. Faith is not cooperation with God.

Let's be clear that this does not show salvation as a gift, but as a reward for doing something, a reward for cooperating, and a reward for choosing.

Who is cooperating?

Scripturally it is that God has gifted us faith, which is evidence of salvation,

It is evidence of our salvation, and for that reason we know that it is not a gift that comes before salvation, neither is their Scripture to support such a notion.

and we know Scripturally that He quickens us and we realize then we are saved. Nothing in our choosing makes it effectual or real, as it is really God that chose us, and our response is simply belief.

You are only half right. God did choose us. I won't argue that. But we also chose God. He gave us that ability. He did not create us as zombies or automatons.

Yet even at the moment of salvation it is simply an acknowledgment that He called us, chose us, and saved us. We come to the realization that He did all of the saving, each and every part, thus we claim and hold to 'monergism' not 'synergism', and salvation is reckoned, truly, as a gift, not a reward for action, choosing, or cooperating.

Everyone of us acknowledge that salvation is a gift, the gift of God.
We all agree that salvation is not of works.
We all agree that salvation is "all of God."
Where we part is that God in his sovereignty has made us different than the animal kingdom in granting us a mind to reason, and will to choose. We choose to do right and choose to do wrong. We aren't forced. We choose to accept Christ or to refuse Christ. We aren't forced.

When one claims it is by our cooperation, then it claims a person has done a thing, and in response are given salvation for cooperation. This shows that salvation is not soley dependent upon God alone, but that our decision is necessary, and only after we decide are we saved, rendering the gift a reward. I cannot see how salvation is a gift within this thinking and teaching.

Who are you referring to here. Not me. Not anyone I know. There are no cults here. I don't know who you are addressing. There is no cooperation in salvation. Let's be clear about that!

 

[marke]

You mean, why He shows mercy to whom He wills?

Yes, do you have scriptural evidence for saying God delights to abandon those people to the eternal punishment of His wrathful judgment because they simply did not get His impartial mercy shown to others?