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Salvation: A Gift or a Reward?

M

marke

New Member
Forest said:
As I have said in many other placeses and times, If you believe that all salvation scriptures are pertaining to eternal salvation you will never understand the truth. There are far more salvation scriptures that pertain to timely deliverances than there are that pertain to eternal. Our timely salvations are brought about by our obedience to God's commands (timely salvation by works).
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Maybe I confused you with OT scriptures, so let me list some "salvation" scriptures from the NT.

"And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched." (Mark 9:43-44).

Quick exposition: The Lord is telling a crowd the same thing here as he did in Matt. 7:13, "Enter ye in at the strait gate..." he is telling lost people that they had better get real serious real quick about salvation and turn to God with their whole desire if they wish to be saved and delivered from Hell fire.
 
Q

quantumfaith

Active Member
jonathan.borland said:
So some get eternal salvation without accepting and believing? You should communicate a little better before calling their doctrine false. Some is just semantics. When Paul talks to the philosophers on Mars hill he says God arranged everything so that all might seek after him and perhaps feel him and find him (acts 17:27), though we know that this "wooing" is from the HS and not of ourselves, for God has arranged this for all the people of the nations. What a great God!
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:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:
 
D

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
Forest said:
Accepting and believing to get eternal salvation is a false doctrine. When we are born into this world we are born but natural beings void of the Holy Spirit. The natural man will not, and indeed, cannot accept anything of a Spiritual nature, 1 Cor 2:14, Ps 10:4 God quickens us when we are still in a condition of being spiritually dead, Eph 2:5.
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You have a skewed definition of "dead."
God said to Adam: "In the day thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Adam ate; Adam died. What else happened? Adam continued to carry on a conversation with God in his DEAD state, while being dead. This dead Adam still talked with God.
The word "dead" simply means "separated." It does not mean "lifeless," and that is where you make your mistake. Adam was not all of a sudden lifeless; no, he was separated from God. His sin had separated from God. In order for him to be reconciled back to God, God had to provide a blood sacrifice, and that He did when he made coats of skins where the first animal sacrifice was made.

Cornelius was DEAD, separated from God. But God heard his prayers, and sent Peter to him that he might here the gospel and be saved.

Lydia was DEAD, separated from God, but then God, having sent Paul to hear opened her heart to the gospel that she might be saved.

Your theological system is man-made and goes against what the Bible teaches.

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.

For whosoever call upon the name shall be saved.

To him give all the prophets witness that whosover shall believe on his name shall receive remission of sins.

For as many as received him to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name.

He that heareth my word and believeth on him that sent me hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation, but is passed from death unto life.

IOW, why would you insist in your little theological system to contradict the totality of Scripture which says the very opposite of what you say. The Bible says: "Whosever may come." You say: "Whosoever may not come."
I would rather believe the Bible.
 
C

convicted1

Guest
Amy.G said:
What if we looked at the gift from a different angle in this discussion?

If a stranger walked up to you and offered you a gift, you most likely would not accept it.

But if someone you knew and trusted offered you a gift, you would accept it.

When someone accepts the gift of salvation, it's because their eyes have already been opened to who it is that's offering the gift.

Many people are offered salvation through the preaching of the gospel and they reject it because the Holy Spirit has not opened their eyes to who the giver is.

When God opens your spiritual eyes, you see it is Christ that is giving you the gift of salvation and you gladly receive it because you know and trust the giver.


It's not enough to just hear the gospel, God must supernaturally reveal Himself or the gospel is just words with no power. This is what Jesus is talking about when He tells Nicodemus that the wind goes where it will. The Holy Spirit is like the wind and goes where and to whom He wills.

I hope this makes sense. It's in my head but I don't know if I can type it in a way that conveys what I'm trying to say.
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Very good post, Sissy. A gift accepted in no way implies I had anything to do with them offering the gift to me. God offered me the gift of "ETERNAL" salvation, and I accepted it. A gift that can not be refused is not a gift, eh?
 
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psalms109:31

Active Member
I know what it is like to have nothing being 180 pound person down to weighing 144 pound person. Taking gifts from strangers. That is what Jesus is asking us to be poor in spirit to depend on Him like a child their parent. We don't know God until we know Jesus.

2 Corinthians 5:16

So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer.
 
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DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
psalms109:31 said:
I know what it is like to have nothing being 180 pound person down to weighing 144 pound person. Taking gifts from strangers. That is what Jesus is asking us to be poor in spirit to depend on Him like a child their parent. We don't know God until we know Jesus.

2 Corinthians 5:16

So from now on we regard no one from a**worldly***point**of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer
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Good exegesis. Now please continue the same thought into verse 17.
 
P

psalms109:31

Active Member
DHK said:
Good exegesis. Now please continue the same thought into verse 17.
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Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come:[ Or"Christ, that person is a new creation."
]The old has gone, the new is here!18All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation:19that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.20We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God.21God made him who h.ad no sin to be sin[Or"be a sin offering"
]for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

Am i missing something
 
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DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
psalms109:31 said:
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come:[ Or"Christ, that person is a new creation."
]The old has gone, the new is here!18All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation:19that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.20We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God.21God made him who h.ad no sin to be sin[Or"be a sin offering"
]for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

Am i missing something
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From what you posted on verse 16, and the context of the passage, I believe the verse is giving a different emphasis than most think it is.
"Therefore if any man be in Christ he is a new creature." The "therefore" takes it back to the previous verse. It doesn't matter what our former background was. We are a new creature. It doesn't matter if we were Jew or Gentile, or what our status or caste was. We are one in Christ.
"Old things are passed away." Those old demarcations that formerly caused divisions among us are now gone. We, under Christ, are equal. All things are become new. In Christ we begin a new life. We look upon each and every person: rich or poor, Jew or Gentile, fat or skinny, the same.

This is the context of the verse. You indicated that in verse 16, but failed to apply it in verse 17.

2 Corinthians 5:15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

2 Corinthians 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
--The old things of the flesh and the world, the old relationships, they are the things that have passed away.
 
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