Salvation & grape juice

[npetreley]

What gets me Npet is all the people that have a fit about the word "world" in the debates about soteriology and yet they will twist the word wine everyway that makes their own point and adds to their own holiness.

:laugh: I was thinking almost exactly the same thing -- I had the word "all" in mind, though. :laugh:

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

Wine is wine... both fermented and unfermented.

It is just as much of a sin to say it was only fermented as it is to say it was only non-fermented.

Wine was both, depending on the context.

 

[Dale-c]

mission |?mi sh ?n| noun an important assignment carried out for political, religious, or commercial purposes, typically involving travel : a fact-finding mission to China. • [treated as sing. or pl. ] a group of people taking part in such an assignment : by then, the mission had journeyed more than 3,500 miles.

agenda |??jend?| noun a list of items of business to be considered and discussed at a meeting : the question of nuclear weapons had been removed from the agenda. • a list or program of things to be done or problems to be addressed : he vowed to put jobs at the top of his agenda | the government had its own agenda.

Well, looks like mission is just as good of a term.

mission or agenda, your choice but it is YOURS one way or the other.

 

[DHK]

Paul did not have to tell them that it would send them to hell. He had already done that in Chapter 6 of the same Epistle when he stated:

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. (1 Corinthians 6:9-10)

The fact remains, drunkards will not inherit the Kingdom of God,... so ultimately, the alcohol will send a person to hell.

You are very confused. By your logic heaven will be an empty place apart from God and his angels.

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

One drink makes a drunkard.
One murder makes a murderer.
One lie makes a liar (all of us)
No liar shal enter into heaven, but shall be cast into the lake of fire.
Heaven will be empty according to your theology.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

What gets me Npet is all the people that have a fit about the word "world" in the debates about soteriology and yet they will twist the word wine everyway that makes their own point and adds to their own holiness.

To say that wine was only fermented is twisting the word wine. You are pointing fingers back at yourself, Dale.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

You are very confused. By your logic heaven will be an empty place apart from God and his angels.

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

One drink makes a drunkard.
One murder makes a murderer.
One lie makes a liar (all of us)
No liar shal enter into heaven, but shall be cast into the lake of fire.
Heaven will be empty according to your theology.

Heaven will not be empty, but it will have all who obey God's Word and do not straddle the fence.

 

[DHK]

Heaven will not be empty, but it will have all who obey God's Word and do not straddle the fence.

Yea let God be true but every man a liar
Have you lied? The answer is yes. The Bible declares you a liar. According your own theology you cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven. A drunkard is just as bad as a liar.

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

You do not obey God's laws. You are not as holy as God, and are not able to stand in his presence.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

Not my theology, DHK. The Word of God declares all liars will go to hell.

So, if God considers all men liars, even after they have placed their faith in His Son, then all are doomed to hell.

But, God is not saying what you are saying the Word says. In context, God is saying those who are teaching that which is contrary to the Word of God are liars... not all men.

Context is showing that unbelievers are liars, not Believers.

 

[DHK]

Not my theology, DHK. The Word of God declares all liars will go to hell.

Your theology states that one drink makes one a drunkard.
Logically, one lie makes a liar. I accept that logic then.
Since trusting Christ have you ever lied, even once.
I can answer that question for you, since the Bible says you have.
If you deny it and say you haven't I have some other Scripture for you to ponder:

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1 John 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Notice that John includes himself in these verses (we). If you deny that you have lied (the most common sin), or that you have sinned at lie, then you make Christ a liar, His word is not in you, the truth is not in you, and you deceive yourself. To sum it up you have utterly condemned yourself.

One drink and you are a drunkard, unsaved, and cannot enter heaven.
One lie and you are a liar, unsaved and cannot enter heaven.

I am using your logic; your theology; your beliefs to demonstrate to you that according to you heaven will be empty and you also will spend an eternity in hell. You have condemned yourself.

So, if God considers all men liars, even after they have placed their faith in His Son, then all are doomed to hell.

God doesn't. But you do. You have said that all who drink are unsaved. If all who drink are unsaved then all who lie are unsaved. One sin is just as bad as another in God's sight. For whosoever shall keep the whole law and yet offend in one point he is guilty of all.

But, God is not saying what you are saying the Word says. In context, God is saying those who are teaching that which is contrary to the Word of God are liars... not all men.

Are you then a liar? Why are you teaching contrary to what the Word of God teaches? It seems to me that you are teaching that it is impossible for God to forgive the sin of drunkenness, the way that you have presented yourself on this thread.

 

[gb93433]

wine, in Bible times was either alcoholic, or non-alcoholic.

During the time the grapes were picked and considering the weather without any refrigeration how long do you think that kind of non-alcoholic wine would last without rotting?

 

[saturneptune]

It is very odd how this thread almost exactly mirrors the 24 hour sinless day. No further comment.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

Context would show that John in the 8th verse was speaking to believers, but about unbelievers.

Did not Jesus say He would dwell in us? His Word declares Christ is in us in the person of the Holy Ghost. His Word also declares that He will never leave us.

But in verse 8, John declares that if we say we have no sin, the truth is not in us.

He is speaking in verse 8 about unbelievers, as Christ will never leave His children.

 

[DHK]

Context would show that John in the 8th verse was speaking to believers, but about unbelievers.

Did not Jesus say He would dwell in us? His Word declares Christ is in us in the person of the Holy Ghost. His Word also declares that He will never leave us.

But in verse 8, John declares that if we say we have no sin, the truth is not in us.

He is speaking in verse 8 about unbelievers, as Christ will never leave His children.

There is not one verse in the first chapter of First John that is directed to unbelievers. John uses the first person throughout to include himself. Verse 9, following verse 8 directs US (believers) to confess our sins to Christ. That is written to believers only. It is written that believers might have their fellowship restored with God, not for salvation purposes. Not one verse is addressed to unbelievers.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

Your theology states that one drink makes one a drunkard.
Logically, one lie makes a liar. I accept that logic then.
Since trusting Christ have you ever lied, even once.
I can answer that question for you, since the Bible says you have.
If you deny it and say you haven't I have some other Scripture for you to ponder:

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1 John 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Notice that John includes himself in these verses (we). If you deny that you have lied (the most common sin), or that you have sinned at lie, then you make Christ a liar, His word is not in you, the truth is not in you, and you deceive yourself. To sum it up you have utterly condemned yourself.

One drink and you are a drunkard, unsaved, and cannot enter heaven.
One lie and you are a liar, unsaved and cannot enter heaven.

I am using your logic; your theology; your beliefs to demonstrate to you that according to you heaven will be empty and you also will spend an eternity in hell. You have condemned yourself.


God doesn't. But you do. You have said that all who drink are unsaved. If all who drink are unsaved then all who lie are unsaved. One sin is just as bad as another in God's sight. For whosoever shall keep the whole law and yet offend in one point he is guilty of all.

Are you then a liar? Why are you teaching contrary to what the Word of God teaches? It seems to me that you are teaching that it is impossible for God to forgive the sin of drunkenness, the way that you have presented yourself on this thread.

God can, and does forgive the sin of drunkenness. But, when one is convicted that drunkenness is sin and trusts Christ as one's Savior, one is no longer that drunkard. One will no longer have the desire to drink if one is convinced that drunkards will go to hell as God's Word states.

The Holy Spiit will take that desire away, else the person truly was not convinced of sin

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

There is not one verse in the first chapter of First John that is directed to unbelievers. John uses the first person throughout to include himself. Verse 9, following verse 8 directs US (believers) to confess our sins to Christ. That is written to believers only. It is written that believers might have their fellowship restored with God, not for salvation purposes. Not one verse is addressed to unbelievers.

As I said, it is written to believers, but verse 8 is about unbelievers. How can a true believer not have the truth in him?

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

Nice hijack attempt. This thread is about drunkards and drinking, not about liars.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

The Holy Spiit will take that desire away, else the person truly was not convinced of sin

Can we just say this is heresy, and move on, please ? I've see enough. Please close my thread, as it is not producing any good fruit, and I am ashamed I started it.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

It is heresy to say the Holy Spirit will remove desires to continue in sin one has been convinced is sin?

Wow!

 

[saturneptune]

It is heresy to say the Holy Spirit will remove desires to continue in sin one has been convinced is sin?

Wow!

Did you read the last post? He author of the thread said he wanted it closed. That means he wants no more comments from you.