Salvation in Catholic and Baptist Theology

If you will not call the Pope "God" when scripture provides justification for that use of term to men (Psa 86; Jn. 10) then there is no way you can address the Pope as "Holy Father" a direct address NEVER used in scripture for men or by men toward other men.

Not even Jesus was addressed as "holy father" by any man nor did even Jesus take upon that title of direct address! How blasphemeous is it for the Pope to usurp what even Jesus would not have men address him!!!!!

 

It is a horrendous thing that Catholics do, committing offensive practices against God, and then making excuses for it while continuing to hold on to those practices.
You brought up a very important topic about the Catholics and canonizing their “Saints.” I would like to make a new post on this. If it does not change a Catholic’s heart, at least it will help strengthen others who believe what is true. I would love to help demolish any influence the Catholic religion has on someone who is not completely sure that it is a false church.
Ephesians 5:11

 

It could be directed to the RCC or it might not be. That's an argument from silence and is nothing more than your "fallible" opinion.

Simply saying that it should make me "cringe" only demonstrates your predilection for believing that your theology is correct to the exclusion of those who practice their faith differently than you. And clearly we all know that those whom you deem to be blasphemous will most certainly go to hell. Yep! God doesn't allow blasphemers into heaven. Thanks for stepping up and helping God with these decisions as I know He is very busy right now.

Hmmm... I don't know what blasphemy I am a part of. But, if by that accusation you mean that anyone who takes exception to one claiming to be a Christian, yet routinely spews garbage like the above, well then yes... I guess that makes me a blasphemer.

Personally, I don’t think God is seriously torqued that Catholics call the Pope "Holy Father" but hey, that's just me.

Stop typing... stand up... and slowly back away from the computer!

WM

 

Couldn't agree with you more! We have had threads on that topic before but why not again. Another good does of truth won't hurt those seeking the truth.

 

I did not accuse anyone of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Therefore, you can stop with the false accusations. I want us to be like minded in Christ, and that is why I discuss the truth. When I was in a false religion, and when someone else kept telling me how evil it was, I repented of it, and I am thankful that they spoke to me. If Catholics love God as they say they do then they would stop doing things against God.

 

Since all Chrisitans are EQUALLY holy why don't you have other address you as "MOST holy Father"?

Why didn't Jesus have his followers address him as "Holy Father" or "Most Holy Father" or is he less holy than the Pope??

This argument by Catholics is so rediculous that only intentional blind dogma could keep defending it.

 

This makes me so glad to hear. I have to go right now, but I will be back later this afternoon.

 

Or Romes FALLIBLE opinion. Fact is Rome is full of heresies and the shoe fits.

The shoe fits!

The only ones spewing garbage are those who dare address any human being as "MOST holy father" when Jesus Christ was NEVER addressed that way nor any other man. ONLY God the Father is addressed that way.

Why not just call him "God" as well since Psalms 86 provides a basis to call men God?

Catholics make tradition, counsels, popes, and on this forum even heathen cultures more authoritative than the Word of God. God's word never uses "holy Father " as a direct address to any human any time anywhere. Rome Blasphemes God.

 

Why not address the pope as "Lord God" or "Most God" or "Most Lord God"????

Because these titles are only addressed to God???

So also is the direct address "Holy Father."

If you cannot see that the direct address "MOST Holy Father" is blasphemous then no amount of argumentation will change your mind.

 

The Jews wouldn't say YHWH. Or even try to pronounce it. So you have it. God in our language is reserved for one Person. Father is not. As it was with the Jews YHWH is reserved for one person Abba was not. And that is biblical. You don't want to admit Jesus used Hyperbole.

 

You don't want to admit the truth and you still haven't answered about the use of the word father by children etc. So I can make the same accusation of you:

It is a horrendous thing that Biblisist does, committing offensive practices against God, and then making excuses for it while continuing to hold on to those practices. Insisting that his children call him father against the word of Jesus Christ! Biblicist makes a mockery of the bible when the bible clearly states

You show your disdaine for God and lead your children astray by having them or even allowing them to call you Father!!!! The bible Says

You caused your children to sin by having them call you Father what a great evil and against the word of God!!!!

If I were pentecostal I would say God-huh! Where is my white hankercheif I feel a sermon comming on!

 

You are a debater and an escape artist. Whether it was hyperbole or not makes no difference. The argument is not over the use or term "father" but over the use of the direct address "Holy Father" which is used only one time in Scripture and it is used for only One Person in Scripture - God the Father.

Hence, the term "Father" modified by "holy" is in a precise context that limits it to "our Father in heaven" alone! That is the Biblical context for that direct address. The Bible offers no other context for the use of the terms "holy father."

That is the truth and it is the truth you are not willing to acknowledge or admit or restrict that expression to. The Bible restricts that particular expression to God alone just as YHWH is restricted by context to God alone.

 

I will repeat what I said to TS. The Bible restricts the use of Jehovah (YHWH) to God alone. Thus it would be obvious blasphemy for any man to assume that title or any other man to address anyone but God by that title.

So likewise, the direct address "Holy Father" is restricted by Biblical usage to God alone. Therefore, it would be equally blasphemy for any man to assume that title or any man to address anyone but God the Father by that title.

Jesus Himself never takes that title of address and you believe some sinful man with a funny cap can do it?????????

Here is the real crux of the argument! What Scriptural basis can Rome apply "Most Holy Father" or "Holy Father" to anyone but God the Father ANY MORE THAN WHAT AUTHORITY can they apply Jehovah (YHWH) to anyone but God alone as both have as their ONLY BIBLICAL CONTEXT application to God only??????

 

You are artfully dodging the real issue and thus not even addressing the truth. The real issue is not about the term "father"! The real issue is the direct address "HOLY Father" and how the Biblical context applies this direct address.

The Biblical contextual application forbids the direct address of YHWH translated Yahweh or Jehovah to be applied to anyone but God. That is the Biblical restrictive context of application. The Biblical context NEVER addresses any other being by that term. The same is true with "Holy Father." The Bibical context never addresses any other being by that those terms. Not even Jesus is addressed that way and thus you have a sinful man wearing a funny cap taking honor not even given to Christ by mankind.

You are rejecting the Biblical restricted context of this direct address and so is Rome.

So you are artfully dodging the facts of Biblical context and Biblical usage. You are vainly attempting to reduce the argument to the simple term "father" when that is not the issue at all but you are strenuously attempting to use that red herring.

 

You really are reaching. Jesus was speaking in Hyperbole and just because I use Holy which means set apart doesn't mean I'm referring to God. It means the man is set apart as an elder of the Church which itself is Holy and set apart. And I have a Holy Cup which I only use for Coffee and nothing else. Its set apart for just coffee. I'm not saying my cup is Godly.

 

and in our language God is set asside for God alone. So whats the difference? Nothing. I don't call the Pope God because he isn't. He's an elder with a specific purpose thus Holy. Father.

Be honest post 232 is right on isn't it? Especially if you were consistent.