Salvation in Catholic and Baptist Theology

Again, the argument is not over the use of the term "father" or "elder" but over the direct address "Holy Father"! This expression by Biblical context is restricted to God alone as it is NEVER EVER used by the Holy Spirit in Scripture for any other being including Christ much less coffee, elders or apostles!

But to add "MOST holy Father" is so blasphemeous that only a blind and deaf man could not see it as the pope is not the "MOST" holy father literally or by hyperbole and even common sense should see the obvious blasphemy in that. A former Catholic admited the phrase "holy father" came from the Traditional phrase "MOST holy father."

Tell, if this is such a general expression like for coffee, and all children of God then why don't you start calling your dad "MOST holy father" since he ALONE was SET APART by God to father you. Why don't you start calling every dad in your congregation "HOLY father" since they are all set apart as fathers?

Only pure blind dogma refuses to see the utter arrogance and blasphemy of such a title of address to a sinful man when there is no question, no debate that the Bibical context of that phrase is restricted to God alone.

 

AGain, the issue is not over the term "father." The issue is over the direct address "holy father." The issue is over the restricted Biblical context of this direct address used in Scripture.

Attempting to reduce this to an argument over the use of the term "father" is simply a ploy to esape the truth which is over the direct address "Holy Father."

Let me put it this way. The term "Lord" [adonai] is applied to God and to men but when it is joined to "God" as "Lord God" it would be blasphemous to address any man this way. The term "father" is applied to God and to men but when it is joined to "Holy" as "Holy Father" it would be blasphemeous to address any man this way because it is EXCLUSIVELY used to address only God in scripture EQUALLY AS "Lord God" is used exclusively to address only God in Scripture.

 

Then you issue is using the word Holy which means set apart for a specific purpose in conjunction with Father is you issue? I'm sorry but then my epigraph using Mr. President is also applicable in this discussion another word you will never see in scriptures.

To be honest I have never heard the term Most Holy Father applied to the Pope ever. His Holiness The Pope;
- Bishop Of Rome And Vicar Of Jesus Christ;
- Successor Of St. Peter, Prince Of The Apostles;
- Supreme Pontiff Of The Universal Church;
- Patriarch Of The West;
- Servant Of The Servants Of God;
- Primate Of Italy;
- Archbishop And Metropolitan Of The Roman Province;
- Sovereign Of Vatican City State.

These are the Titles I'm familiar with. Never Most Holy Father. I think you made that up.

 

Walter made it up if it is really made up! So take it to him TS

 

The Scriptural use of terms is the basis for judging the Biblical application. Not modern cultural use of terms today. Not tradition. Not Rome.

The Word of God restricts "Holy Father" to the very same Person that the Word of God restricts "Lord God" and any man assuming either title or accepting men addressing them as such is a usurper of God.

 

Hmmm.... Just for the record:

The last time I checked, if one is part of a blasphemy then by necessity, one must also be a blasphemer. Stop with the false denials. Those are your words not mine. If you didn't intend to state that, then why did you write it in the first place?

And just how do you know that you are not now still in a false religion? After all, by your own admission, you were decieved once before.

Let me see if I can translate this: "If Catholics love God as they say they do then they would stop doing things [that I believe are] against God." Emphasis mine.

It's the height of presumption to state with certainty that Catholics "do things against God". Some Catholics might very well do that, but not with the guidance and approval of the RCC. Heck... they probably see some of things that Protestants do as being against God. Turn on TBN and get back to me on that attitude.

WM

 

I don't know if you caught the phrase but Walter is saying the original term was Most Blessed Father in which case the term blessed is connotative of highly favored. Most Highly Favored Father. The Greek term in the NT to connotate Blessings was eulogeitos which literally meant to Kneel so Most Kneeling Father? It also meant to pray over a thing with many prayers. So it isn't the same thing.

 

I heard a Catholic Critize a Protestant church saying that it had no reverance for God. Even the Church looked more like a consert hall geared for entertainment than one focused on God. I explained that the focus was on the word of God and the preaching and the lack of rememberances was due to their puritan background which would have no Iconography. But you get the point. It goes both ways.

 

There is no excuse for any type of false worship by any denomination. However, the Roman Catholic church is corrupted in every aspect of it. Sacramentalism is its foundation for soteriology which is completely antibibical. It's officers, its government, its basis of authority are all corrupt and grounded in a mixture of Old Testament judaism and paganism.

It is more corrupted than what many regard as cultic Christian denominations (LDS, JW's, New Age Christianity, etc.).

 

Pure opinion!

WM

 

The snow is getting deep. I mean I looked out side my study and we have two feet of snow that fell last night. Of course that is just my "opinion" but I stepped out into it and it came well over my 12 inch boots right up beneath my knee cap and I am 6'1".

 

Not much snow here but the temperature outside is close to minus 30 with a windchill factor at times colder than minus 50. It's been like that all week, and expected to continue for a few more days yet.

 

When you can measure your accusations with your boots then I'll be with you 100%.

WM

 

Snow is so beautiful and it never gets cold enough where I live to snow. But then, if it did, I wouldn't be surfing right now!

 

I forgot that you are so blind that you even missed my answer about children calling their earthly dads ‘father.’ Jesus was talking about SPIRITUAL BROTHERS CALLING THEMSELVES ‘FATHER.’ Jesus was talking TO and ABOUT spiritual brothers, not biological brothers. Jesus TELLS us NOT to call ourselves ‘father, ‘and that we are all BROTHERS.

NOW, TELL US, HOW DO YOU OBEY JESUS WHEN HE SAYS NOT TO CALL YOUR BROTHER IN CHRIST 'FATHER'? I DO NOT WANT YOU TO GET AWAY WITHOUT ANSWERING.

 

You do blasphemy against God when you call your Pope “Holy Father.”
I repented of following the false religion that I was in, and then soon after that Jesus saved me. We must watch our doctrine carefully, and check to see if what others teach us is in the Bible.
As for you wanting to discuss other false religions and doctrine, start a new post, I would love to discuss, but in this thread, we are talking about the Catholic religion.

 

Actually the OP is about a discussion of differences in Salvation theologies (Catholic / Baptist) ....lets try to stay on track!